Court Summons out of the blue - What do I do now?

[Elkus]

Nope, that's the first time I've seen one from either of them, and that was only because I did a CPR request

 

Elkus

[AndyOrch]

Ok Elkus have you worked out the date of your Defence submission and had a look around for suitable holding defence?

I will assist you if you are struggling with this just post.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Elkus]

I figured that since the claim was sent on the 27th October, with 5+28 days that means our defence has to be in by the 29th November?

 

I have a couple of defences in mind, but it does depend on whether I get a response back regarding the rest of my CPR request (as they only complied with the NoA, still have the CA and DN to go). Should I call them and ask when I'm going to get these?

 

Elkus

[AndyOrch]

No they know that that they have to compy and as such will remain in Default of said request.Also smacks of desperation remember Litigation involves mindgames and as such we will give them a few.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Elkus]

Ok, my post arrived this morning with an envelope from Howard Cohen. In it were copies of the CA and what appears to be the DN. I'll find a way of posting scans of both of those shortly...

 

Also provided were printouts of most of the monthly statements, but some were missing ( including August 2008 ) which seems a bit suspect to me.

 

Interestingly the covering letter was dated the 5th of November but the envelope was franked on the 10th, which is past their 7 day deadline. Either it was sitting in someone's drawer for 5 days or they backdated the letter. Any helpful comments on this?

 

Elkus

Edited November 11, 2008 by Elkus
Changed one word - letter to envelope...

[Elkus]

Right, here's the CA:

 

And here's the DN they sent me:

[AndyOrch]

Hi Elkus

 

Ok does the DN allow 14 days to remidy said breach ie date of DN plus 3 plus 14?

 

Cant enlarge the CCA to see the details good enough to accetain if it is valid can you post it via Photobucket?

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[Elkus]

Hi Andy,

 

The DN says exactly as you see it, that's the whole of the page.

 

The pics are hosted by photobucket but I'll see what I can do!

 

Elkus

[Elkus]

Credit Agreement supplied by Howard Cohen

[AndyOrch]

So the DN is not dated? so how can you work out the perscibed period to rectify ie 14 days from when?????

 

On the CCA looks like an Application Form but still quiet blurred.Are there any Perscribed terms within the signitory sheet ie Interest rate,payment date credit limit? are there any T&Cs also attached preferbly within the signitory area or refered to on the signitory ie overleath or attached or linked via letter or number?

 

Andy;)

[Elkus]

You're correct, the DN was not dated and only gave the due date.

 

The CCA was copied onto a sheet of A4 so it's very small! The top half with the signature states the following somewhere:

 

Interest rate of 26.478%

Minimum monthly payment of £4 or 4%

Additional charges info

And that the agreement is non-cancellable

 

If there's anything else I should be looking for, please let me know!

 

Many thanks,

 

Elkus

[AndyOrch]

Hi wouldnt worrry too much re the CCA the DN is invalid anyway and therfore unlawful. Thats enough to render a good defence and refute the claimants P.O.C

 

 

Andy;)

[Elkus]

Hi Andy,

 

That was my immediate thought upon reading the copy DN. As I now have 2 weeks to submit my defence, what would be the best thing to say to that end? I've read a few submissions by others but they mostly seem to deal with missing copies and failures to adhere to the requests. Not sure what's best to say considering I now have (rather dubious) copies of all the paperwork I asked for.

 

Many thanks,

 

Elkus

[AndyOrch]

Hi again

 

Without actually being able to see the CCA properly its difficult to advise on this point.Does it contain both yours and theirs Sigs?

Does it state anywhere that is an application Form?

Like i said earlier everything must be within the signitory sheet perscribed terms and also the T&Cs.

With regards to the Defence thats not a problem and would be delighted to assist in drafting you somthing suitable to your case.

Just post nearer the time (not the day before ) and we will draft your Defence.

 

Regards

Andy

[Elkus]

Only contains my wife's signature, but their section had been stamped with "COMPLETED".

 

The top of the form says "DEBENHAMS RETAIL PLC STAFF ACCOUNT REQUEST" in black at the top, and the next line says "Please read this application carefully..." etc etc.

 

So does this mean this is an application form and not the Credit Agreement as requested?

 

Elkus

[AndyOrch]

It could mean but then again you can have an Application agreement providing it conforms to some of the points we have already discussed.

If you feel that it does contain the perscribed terms apart from the OCs signiture then it is therefore unexecuted.You need to check it contains T&Cs if you are happy that the terms are there.

 

Andy

[Elkus]

This could get confusing...

 

There's an authorised signatory box at the very very bottom which is filled in with just a bunch of numbers, but the box that states "Agreement signed for and on behalf of GE Capital Bank Limited" has not been signed or dated, but there's the "COMPLETED" stamp next to it.

 

The top half of the form doesn't state terms and conditions anywhere but it does have headings such as "Key Financial Information" and "Other Financial Information" and so on.

 

I'll see if I can get a much larger copy on photobucket as it shrank the original!

 

Elkus

[AndyOrch]

It would be helpful, we know the DN is pants ,would nice to know if the CCA is also.

 

 

Andy

[Elkus]

Ok, this is the biggest photobucket will let me make it. If it's still too small I'll chop it in two halves and do it that way...

 

Copy of application

[AndyOrch]

Hi Elkus

 

Ok can see the detail now.I would be inclined to think that this would have been a valid CCA however pity it is unsigned by the OP. I would contend that this could amount to a pre-contractual document. As far as im aware the completed rubber stamp could have been put on last week unless thats dated also.Without the OCs signiture then IMHO it can be argued that the application/agreement remains unexecuted and therfore invalid and unbinding.You may wish for other views and see if they are in agreement.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Elkus]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for clarifying what I suspected, although I don't see any harm in putting that in my defence. Even if the view is eventually taken that this is a valid CCA there is still the issue of the DN which can still be argued. Would arguing the validity of the CCA have an affect on the case if it were to be successfully disputed?

 

Many thanks,

 

Elkus

[AndyOrch]

Well its only a small point but big enough to render said CCA unenforcable,so along with the DN you have enough to defend with a very good prospect of success.

At the end of the day the game is not to get to Court but to imply to the Claimants that they got it wrong and game over.Post nearer to your submission date and I will assist in your Defence

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Elkus]

Ok will do, and thanks for all the advice folks! It's been much appreciated so far

 

Many thanks,

 

Elkus

[Elkus]

Hello again

 

With a week to go for the defence submission date, I figured it's about time we started to come up with a suitable defence...

 

I'll be looking at some other defences to help me get one together, so if anyone's got any helpful suggestions I'll be glad to hear them

 

Elkus

[Elkus]

Hey folks,

 

I've been reading through quite a few posts for a suitable defence but all I seem to come across are those for where the CA etc have not been provided. Would anyone have a template for a defence where the requested documents have been provided?

 

It would also need to consider the following points about the provided documents too:

 

1) The CA has not been signed and dated by the creditor, merely rubber-stamped.

 

2) The DN provided was not originally sent to us, nor was it received. The provided copy does not have an issue date, only a due date. Plus the format is poor.

 

3) The NoA was also not sent to us, nor was it received, as per their claim on their PoA.

 

If anyone can suggest any further points it would be very much appreciated! It may also be worth mentioning that we're not disputing the fact that we owe money on the account itself, but are contesting the manner in which we had a claim made against us... Seems a bit unfair when the DN is only asking for about £40, which is something I can afford to pay them.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Elkus