Car Hire Purchase Agreement Question

[andrew1]

also...can anyone tell me what they think should be claimed here?

 

If the court find in our favour (my chums) having had the car taken and sold in breach of s.90 as previously described what might be reasonable to ask the court to order?

 

1.Repayment of monies already paid under the agreement?

 

Their claim is as follows:

 

The outstanding balance is therefore calculated as follows:

 

£9421.32 Amount claimed as per the claim form

+ £ 250.00 Costs awarded by the Court

- £ 300.00 Payment received from Defendant

+ £ 69.64 Interest from 23/02/ 2009 -19/03/2009

- £ 4,350.00 Auction Receipt (sale of car)

+ £ 395.60 Auction House and Collection Costs

+ £ 153.00 Interest from 19/03/09— 19/08/09

Total due £5639.56

 

The unpaid balance under the Agreement as at today’s date is £5,639.56.

 

 

The original agreement value was £16,200 including charges etc..the car cost £13200 and he's paid £7100

 

He's had to buy another old jaloppy in the interim but was without a car for 3 months.

 

What do you think he can claim for? Anyone?

[postggj]

Well He Can Claim Back All Payments Made At Contractual Interest

 

He Will Walk Away With This And Owe Nothing

 

You Can Claim The Cost Of A Replacement Vehicle

 

 

If As Stated The Vehicle Was Sold Unlawfully, They Have No Case

[andrew1]

Well He Can Claim Back All Payments Made At Contractual Interest

 

He Will Walk Away With This And Owe Nothing

 

You Can Claim The Cost Of A Replacement Vehicle

 

 

If As Stated The Vehicle Was Sold Unlawfully, They Have No Case

 

You're a star postggj, I put together a letter for him and I thought I'd ask, as they had breached s.90 for the cash price on the original agreement of the new car which was £13,200, the monies paid already some £7000 plus £2500 for all the hassle, court paperwork preparation, travel costs and inconvenience including an element of a goodwill gesture - just over £20k

 

The car was a new car in 2006 and he'd looked after it well, he'll have to replace it, so as they've breached this s.90 I didn't see why we shouldn't at least try. The solicitors seem to recognise they are stuffed and are looking to settle without court so it doesn't seem unreasonable given the APR is wrong, the T & C's haven't been supplied and were outside the agreement anyway and after the signatures, the t&C's were illegible and they sold the car whilst a stay was in place so they are stuffed I believed.

 

Do you think asking for the price of the car originally is stretching it? I personally don't but what would you think?

[postggj]

whatever the cost was on the finance agreement for the car

 

thats the amount to claim

 

recession of contract

 

they have no defence

 

if you realy want to turn the screw

 

a new car and all payments made reclaimed back

 

caz and welcome got eight grand back in payments and eight grand to replace the vehicle

 

but thats your choice on that one

[andrew1]

whatever the cost was on the finance agreement for the car

 

thats the amount to claim

 

recession of contract

 

they have no defence

 

if you realy want to turn the screw

 

a new car and all payments made reclaimed back

 

caz and welcome got eight grand back in payments and eight grand to replace the vehicle

 

but thats your choice on that one

 

First shot is £19,200 for a new car at todays prices + the £7k already paid and £2500 for everything else rolled up. Letters going off to the solicitors tomorrow, as you say, gotta start somewhere and they are really up a gum tree hopefully. They won't get much lighter than that if they went to court I don't think...

 

I'll let you know what happens. Much appreciate your help.

 

A1

Edited November 14, 2009 by andrew1

[postggj]

its my pleasure

 

let me know there response

 

to be honest most sols are not up on the cca

 

been there done that as they say

[andrew1]

First shot is £19,200 for a new car at todays prices + the £7k already paid and £2500 for everything else rolled up. Letters going off to the solicitors tomorrow, as you say, gotta start somewhere and they are really up a gum tree hopefully. They won't get much lighter than that if they went to court I don't think...

 

I'll let you know what happens. Much appreciate your help.

 

A1

 

Rejected by return of post, so I have said this: and we wait! -

 

I thank you for your response to my letter of 12th November as a proposal to settle this account out of court.

 

Without prejudicing my position as far as my rights are concerned, but with the intentions of keeping within the spirit of the CPR, could I kindly ask you to inform me what would be acceptable to your client in settlement and your reasons for feeling my offer is not acceptable given what is available to me should we process this via the court?

 

I will then consider this and we still may be able to save your client the court fees.

 

Many thanks

[andrew1]

Spoke to the solicitors and have a scheduled conversation today to negotiate settlement...solicitor asked me if I was a lawyer oh the power of CAG!

[postggj]

hi andrew

 

turn the screw

 

they are stuffed and they know it

[mich7k]

goodluck

[andrew1]

Thanks guys, gals?

 

Just spoken to the solicitor who is going off to get instructions, one thing they did say was what was the position as my chum had already offered to hand back the vehicle...I said he didn't know his rights at that time, he does now and s.90 holds over all else so having laid out his defence he wanted settlement. I was asked if he was expecting an offer, I said no a cheque!

 

Seriously though, it appears they are trying to draw a distinction between the repo order and him offering to hand the car over voluntarily and the fact they sold it...I guess because they could argue he'd effectively given the car back by issuing that statement. They are going over the file to check that one out.

 

Would any of you know what difference him offering to hand back would make even though this was back in February from what I can make out?

 

They never took him up on it and carried on to court anyway in March/April so they'd ignored it anyway - (Think I've just answered my own question!)

 

I'll let you know what they come back with, but I've asked for the cost of a new car and what he paid ++ Anyone know what a Judge might give in compensation? - a new car?...mmm?

[postggj]

when you hand the car back,

 

unless they have a signed receipt

 

offering and doing are to seperate issues

 

was the request to hand back the car in writing

is there a telephone recording

so he offered to give it back

 

did they send a letter giving date and time when they were going to collect,

i dont think so

with out this they are blowing in the wind

 

you need to work out all the repayments, then add contractual interest

 

then work out how much to replace the car

 

so you will end up with

 

1/ all payments with interest back

 

2/ return or a replacement car at no cost to you of same age, and condition

 

sign nothing

 

stand your ground

 

they are stuffed

Edited December 2, 2009 by postggj

[andrew1]

This is what he actually said to the solicitors for the finance company.:

 

" Further to our telephone conversation yesterday and my previous email I am prepared to increase my offer of repayments to £300 a month". ( He'd been £699 in arrears when action began, offered them £200 and they refused, upped the offer here to £300 they still refused - his proper payments were £306.84)

 

"I hope we are able to come to an agreement with your client, but if not I am willing to agree to surrender the vehicle on a voluntary basis"

 

Now what the solicitor is now saying is that somehow, this statement changes the dynamics ...?

 

They then answered with this: Written on the Thursday

 

"We can confirm that your offer of payment in the sum of £300.00 per month has been rejected. Due to the fact that the hearing takes place on 30 March 2009 (the following Monday) it is too late for us to adjourn the Return of Goods hearing and proceed with the voluntary collection of the vehicle. Therefore. We shall continue with the Return of Goods hearing and contact you once we have the Order to hand so that we can arrange collection of the vehicle.

Yours faithfully"

 

I'm only thinking aloud here, I'm waiting for their call to discuss this again and just refreshing my mind..any thoughts of course all welcomed, I just don't want them throwing some kind of argument which means nothing in reality but is just trying it on.

[postggj]

was the offer to voluntry return the vehicle done in writing

 

if not

 

no contract exsists

[andrew1]

was the offer to voluntry return the vehicle done in writing

 

if not

 

no contract exsists

 

Well it was sent as above in an email

[andrew1]

It looks like I'll be getting into the negotiations with these solicitors tomorrow at long last.

 

Can anyone tell me if they know of any cases like this where the car has been sold or repo'd against the order of the court where compensation has allowed the defendant to claim a new car as well as getting the money back they'd paid given the breach of s.90 CCA...s.91 doesn't specifically say anything other than the repayment of monies paid, but this car was sold when it shouldn't have been so I'd like anything which will support my request for a new car to replace the one sold.

 

Cheers.

[postggj]

Check Back Tonight Andrew

 

Ime Hitting My Files

 

There Are A Lot Of Them

[andrew1]

Check Back Tonight Andrew

 

Ime Hitting My Files

 

There Are A Lot Of Them

 

You're a star!

[andrew1]

Did you have any luck postggj with finding any case law? Don't worry if you didn't but it might have come in handy. Strange thing is that this solicitor mentioned to me last week these cases coming to a head in Manchester when I went on about the agreement. I hadn't thought she may be holding out for these to be heard, but she hasn't called me either Wednesday or Thursday as she said she would but she emailed me saying she'd speak today - she never called, so I'm wondering if she thinks these cases might make a difference if she waits. It's these cases I think:

 

1 December 2009

Credit Issues crushes £11,000 credit card balance

 

A credit card balance of more than £11,000 has been completely written off

due to the lender failing in its obligations under the Consumer Credit Act.

Leading claims management company, Credit Issues and their nominated

solicitors, BPS, broke the news to their client earlier this week, confirming that the balance of £11,038 had been totally written off. The case, which was bought against the lender MBNA, had been scheduled for a full trial in the

Manchester Mercantile Court starting on Monday of this week. However

MBNA capitulated just hours before the commencement of the trial.

Despite several request by Credit Issues MBNA failed to provide a true copy

of the signed credit agreement, leaving BPS no choice but to issue proceedings against the lender.

 

MBNA also caved in on a second case due for hearing this week, enabling

Credit Issues to confirm to another client that their £6,217 credit card balance had been written off.

MBNA are not alone as Credit Issues have many thousands of clients across

a variety of lenders, many in a similar position. The trial at Manchester this

week that includes cases against a number of lenders other than MBNA

continues and will, if successful, lead to a successful resolution for thousands

of clients.

Lee Lipson, Legal Services Director at Credit Issues, said:

"The Consumer Credit Act makes it clear that lenders must provide a true copy of the original credit agreement when requested, in this instance the lender failed to do so and as a result was in breach of its’ statutory obligations. MBNA’s capitulation hours before the start of the trial is a real indication of the seriousness of this issue. Having brought proceedings against a number of lenders we are in court this week to seek guidance and a successful outcome for many thousands of our other clients who find

themselves in a similar position."

 

It's not going to make a ha'peth of difference to our case, but it was strange she mentioned it when we spoke and now it comes up?? ..mmm??

You need to be on your toes dealing with these people don't you?

[andrew1]

The solicitors have been dragging their heals and I think they were waiting for the Manchester hearings TBH. Solicitors have told us they will write on 4th Jan when they come back but initially offered to write off the debt and said we can both look after our own costs. Huh! I was not a party to the conversation, but we'll see what comes in the post before I reject it.

 

Good start though as it shows they have no argument to face us with.

 

What I still would like to know though is if there is any precedent for asking for a new car having sold my chums when the Court had a stay in place?

 

Can anyone point to any cases they know of where the car was sold when it shouldn't have been, I know postgg has already indicated he has been involved with someone getting all they paid against the HP agreement back, but I am looking for something stronger to be in a position to say " Look, under the CCA s.91 the remedy for abusing s.90 is you have to pay us back all paid in" AND I need to have back up for claiming a new car as compensation or something to put right what the Finance company have done.

 

Any thoughts...?

 

Thanks everyone and have a very happy New Year

[postggj]

We Have Till Monday

 

Ime Still On This

 

Seems Like They Know They Are In A Dubiouse Position

[andrew1]

We Have Till Monday

 

Ime Still On This

 

Seems Like They Know They Are In A Dubiouse Position

 

Sorry to have to ask you postggj, but did you get any luck on this one? - I'd search the world myself, but I just don't have the knowledge as to where to look...if you can point me in the right direction I will do some trawling...

 

I know you are helping so many others too so I really appreciate this and don't wish to be annoying you.

 

Many thanks

[andrew1]

This is getting totally frustrating and I'm trying to work out what it is they are up to - could this possibly be tactics from this firm?

 

The stay which was put in place for a month for us to negotiate a settlement was up up yesterday. Throughout the month there have either been excuses of sickness or no responses to emails or phone calls, messages left or anything. Now we are dealing with a partner of this firm who is supposed to be acting for the finance company and who are being given time by the court to negotiate a settlement. They have now let the period lapse which I can only take as meaning they are happy for this to go to a hearing.

 

Given this case is dead in the water as far as they are concerned through this breach of s.90 why on earth would they allow this period to pass without any effort on their part to communicate? We were told that a letter would be sent on 4th Jan - Nothing. So what is the benefit to them of acting like this?

 

Is it that by expiring the period all they need to do is nothing and the claim they made go away?

 

I just phoned the court and they said that as far as they were concerned the stay ran out on 30th Dec so quite what is going on I'm not too sure, but as far as they are concerned the court is just waiting for the instructions from one of us to continue.

 

It's not in the interests of the finance co to continue as they will be the one's paying out, but as they are the claimants and we have submitted a defence and effectively a counter-claim for which they would be paying out a sizeable lump for their errors then where do we go from here?

 

In a telephone call which my chum made (which I wish he hadn't as he was in no fit state to do so psychologically as his wife had just died), the solicitors said just after Christmas that they would write off the balance they were chasing and he said that was not what we are asking for is it negotiable? and he was told it was. So, we know we have them on the run but they are just playing 'silence'. It's not as if we are dealing with some para-legal, this is the partner in the firm ignoring everything, so where to now?

[lookinforinfo]

You could always write to the Court complaining that the plaintiff is not answering your questions with a view to settling the dispute and you do want the issue resolved-even if it means coming back to Court- which is in nobody's interest.

[andrew1]

Yes, that's what I suggested to my friend this afternoon and he want's to dwell on it over the weekend, so perhaps I'll get a letter off on Monday so long as he stays out of the equation. He's in no frame of mind to deal with this or go to court, but if they play silly beggars like this I will insist the court do as you suggest and haul this lot in front of them. I have a barrister here so if I need to I'll use him and finish them off altogether. They are just so rude apart from anything else not replying to anything. Maybe I can set Cabot on them

 

Thanks LFI, trust you keep well?...