Court claim from Lloyds TSB - Advice needed please.

[Mightyacorn]

But there would need to be a default on the CCJ for a charging order to be granted for the house. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Joan has not defaulted on the CCJ.

All she has to do is apply for redetermination to allow her to pay at a rate that she can afford, The court will only set a payment that she can afford and yes it is true, it is nothing to do with Mr joan at all, even if she had the debt last week, we are not responsible for our spouses debts.

 

Sorry Q,

I was not implying that they could go straight for a charging order on the house, what I was saying was about the charging order itself, and that the spouse could object.

[questioning]

Sorry Q,

I was not implying that they could go straight for a charging order on the house, what I was saying was about the charging order itself, and that the spouse could object.

 

Hi Mightyacorn,

Actually its my apologies that should be going to you,

I'm sorry I read your post completely wrong, I notice no one else did.

I am very tired today, I've been up all night.

Please accept my apologies.

kind regards Q. x.

 

Lets not talk of charging orders as that's not gonna happen.

The CCj could be paid by installments of an affordable amount set by the court after the redetermination, and as Mr. Joan said, that in its self is a kind of victory!

[supasnooper]

You'll need to submit the Redetermination request ASAP as most creditors move for Charging Orders very quickly after the original Judgment.

 

I know it's unlawful but since when does that matter to them ?

[Mightyacorn]

You'll need to submit the Redetermination request ASAP as most creditors move for Charging Orders very quickly after the original Judgment.

 

I know it's unlawful but since when does that matter to them ?

 

This is very true. Therefore you really need to prepare for all circumstances. In our case we actually offered to allow the company concerned a charging order without going to court in the first place (all to do with cash-flow problems and assets to be realised etc) but they would have none of it, despite letters from our solicitor indicating a willingness to allow a charging order, They took us to court and finished up still unpaid and with a charging order, only difference being a CCJ against my wife. Some people want their cake and eat it, together with the icing and every last crumb.

[r&b]

just make sure you get their payment details ASAP after the redetermination. ive had them be quite obstructive (ignoring letters,etc) in the past to ensure u miss a payment and then its.... CO next stop

[questioning]

just make sure you get their payment details ASAP after the redetermination. ive had them be quite obstructive (ignoring letters,etc) in the past to ensure u miss a payment and then its.... CO next stop

 

Very true,

 

You have got to do the redetermination with in 14 days from judgment, Sent by special Del. obviously the sooner the better.

 

To pay the judgment the court will set a monthly date and you should then ask for it to be paid by standing order through your bank.

That way your payments will be made on time.

If they are obstructive then I would tell the court, court manager, in writing.

[joan_of_arc]

Joan here. I've just rung the court and the clerk and her supervisor are not aware of a redetermination order form per se. They're telling me that the order has not been drawn by the court yet, and that once it's been drawn it will be referred to the district judge to ask for directions. So I am meant to wait for the court to draw up the order, then I can tell them I can't afford to pay more than x amount a month.

 

 

You have got to do the redetermination with in 14 days from judgment, Sent by special Del. obviously the sooner the better.

 

How come this applies if the court clerks from the determination dept are not aware of a redetermination order form per se?

 

I'm very confused. Does anyone know exactly how I should proceed? Do I need a form? Does such a thing as a redetermination form exist? What do I do?

[questioning]

Joan here. I've just rung the court and the clerk and her supervisor are not aware of a redetermination order form per se. They're telling me that the order has not been drawn by the court yet, and that once it's been drawn it will be referred to the district judge to ask for directions. So I am meant to wait for the court to draw up the order, then I can tell them I can't afford to pay more than x amount a month.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by questioning

You have got to do the redetermination with in 14 days from judgment, Sent by special Del. obviously the sooner the better.

 

 

 

How come this applies if the court clerks from the determination dept are not aware of a redetermination order form per se?

 

I'm very confused. Does anyone know exactly how I should proceed? Do I need a form? Does such a thing as a redetermination form exist? What do I do?

 

As far as what I've been told and my experiences, you can write a letter within 14 days of the judgement and tell them you can't pay, enclose your I & E and make an offer you can afford.

After judgement and if its later than two weeks you have to do it on a form and it costs £35.

If they got ccj by default then I think you have to pay a fee for the redetermination, you can't then write a letter.

 

,, I have just found a form from the court and it is an "Application for a suspension of a warrent and/or variation of an order" "N245," that is what the court sent me a year ago that is the correct name of the form.

i always thought it was called a redetermination form, I only ever looked at it once.

 

Sorry Joan that is what I have been informed from the court and been told by nat. debt line,

I'll flag up your post so others who may definately know can help.

 

I must say it seems that the court were not very helpful.

Edited April 21, 2009 by questioning
added some info.

[questioning]

Joan here. I've just rung the court and the clerk and her supervisor are not aware of a redetermination order form per se. They're telling me that the order has not been drawn by the court yet, and that once it's been drawn it will be referred to the district judge to ask for directions. So I am meant to wait for the court to draw up the order, then I can tell them I can't afford to pay more than x amount a month.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by questioning

You have got to do the redetermination with in 14 days from judgment, Sent by special Del. obviously the sooner the better.

 

 

 

How come this applies if the court clerks from the determination dept are not aware of a redetermination order form per se?

 

I'm very confused. Does anyone know exactly how I should proceed? Do I need a form? Does such a thing as a redetermination form exist? What do I do?

 

Flagged this up for Joan if anyone knows exactly how this works.?

 

This is the form that i am talking about called an N245, This is if a court has set an order and you cannot pay and you are applying after 14 days from judgment. Here is the form ..N245...n245_form.pdf......... Have a look here NationalDebt line England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 08 Reducing Payments Or Suspending A Bailiffs Warrant On A County Court Judgment

Edited April 21, 2009 by questioning

[supasnooper]

What you need to do is get the letter below in the post wit.hin 14 days of the judgment

 

 

Your Name

Your Address

Your Postcode

Date 2009

 

 

The Court Manager

 

CLAIM NUMBER: ******

 

To the Court Manager:

 

REDETERMINATION UNDER RULE 14.13CPR

 

I apply for this matter to be reconsidered (redetermination under Rule 14.13 of of the Civil Procedures Rules) Under rule 14.13 there is no court fee to make this application.

 

I am unable to pay the full Judgment forthwith/instalment as ordered on (insert date) and submit that this has been set an unrealistic amount.

 

I request the Court reconsiders the Judgment. To assist I enclose an up to date financial statement and list of other unsecured debts.

 

As you can see my budget shows I have £..... surplus / £.... deficit after essential living costs and also have (insert number of creditors in total). Given my circumstances and considering my finances as a whole I am able to offer £.... monthly instalments and request the Court set the Judgment

at this amount.

 

Under rule 14.13 of the CPR it is clear that because the Judgment was granted without a hearing I am entitled to have this redetermination and if necessary transferred to my local County Court. My application is also compliant with the time limit as it falls within the 14 days from the original order.

 

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Your Name

Amend to suit, signed and sent recorded Delivery

[supasnooper]

And a good I&E spreadsheet can be found here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-162353.html

[JGJ]

I have just applied for and succeeded in an application for redetermination of a judgement at my local court, using formN24 "Defendants Application For Redetermination". Free.

 

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

[joan_of_arc]

I have just applied for and succeeded in an application for redetermination of a judgement at my local court, using formN24 "Defendants Application For Redetermination". Free.

 

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

 

Thanks. To avoid confusion, do you mean form N245 as pointed out by questioning here?....

 

Flagged this up for Joan if anyone knows exactly how this works.?

 

This is the form that i am talking about called an N245, This is if a court has set an order and you cannot pay and you are applying after 14 days from judgment. Here is the form ..N245...[ATTACH]8065[/ATTACH]......... Have a look here NationalDebt line England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 08 Reducing Payments Or Suspending A Bailiffs Warrant On A County Court Judgment

 

...oooh they're talking about bailiffs in that link. I hope it doesn't come to that. If it does I have a pile of jam rags ready and waiting, signed by the author (some in blood, some in ink.)

 

 

Thanks questioning and supasnooper, very useful advice and I will get onto it. I'm sure Mr Joan will be on here at some point during his coffee break to add his tuppence ha'penny wth as well.

[questioning]

Thanks. To avoid confusion, do you mean form N245 as pointed out by questioning here?....

 

 

 

...oooh they're talking about bailiffs in that link. I hope it doesn't come to that. If it does I have a pile of jam rags ready and waiting, signed by the author (some in blood, some in ink.)

 

 

Thanks questioning and supasnooper, very useful advice and I will get onto it. I'm sure Mr Joan will be on here at some point during his coffee break to add his tuppence ha'penny wth as well.

 

Just to clarify.........

 

The form I have attached and the link provided are if you have been paying and want to re determine the amount you are paying. It would cost £35 to use this form.

 

After you receive judgement you can write a letter under CPR rules (with in 14 days of receiving Jt.) as posted above and ask for a redetermination, this will not cost any fee.

 

I have no idea if JGJ means this form, i doubt it as he calls it by a different name and says it doesn't have a fee to pay. I don't know what this form is sorry,

[r&b]

from memory, i wrote a letter after judgement asking for redetermination, stating i cudnt pay the full amount, included my I&E breakdown with what i cud afford (proved by I&E), judgement was that i pay the amount i stated. (cant stress enough tho, sorry to harp on but....THEN GET THEIR PAYMENT DETAILS - i didnt quickly enuff)

Edited April 21, 2009 by r&b
added from memory

[AndyOrch]

Hi Joan

 

Take a look here you should find what is required part14 1..8

Regards

Andy

[joan_of_arc]

Andy, that link doesn't work, for some reason.

 

Mr JoA here:

I'm a bit confused now. When you say "14 days after receiving judgement" is that 14 days after the judge read it out in court, ie gave his judgement? Or is it 14 days after we receive it in writing (which she hasn't yet)?

 

If we wait until we get the written judgement does that mean it will cost us £35 to get a redetermination? It's a bit difficult as we don't even have an exact figure until we get it in writing.

 

Joan rang the court to ask about a redetermination order and the person she spoke to hadn't a clue what she was talking about. Fat lot of help they were.

 

So where do we get this form from? The court? Or do we just write the letter as stated at post #335? Incidentally, there was a hearing (or a trial, anyway), and it was in our local court, so the last sentence of the letter can't apply, I don't think.

[joan_of_arc]

Oh and the other thing is, Joan has no income, be it gross or net. Mine is the only income, so how do we get round that one, if they look solely at her income?

[AndyOrch]

Apologies for the link Joan try this one partic 14.9 - 14.13

 

PART 14 - ADMISSIONS - Ministry of Justice

 

Regards

 

Andy

[joan_of_arc]

Thanks Andy.

 

Just had a look at that. Not straightforward is it? Where it talks about "admissions", that seems to be referring to admission before action. I'm not entirely clear if it applies still once judgement has been made.

 

Mind you, Joan never disputed the amount, only the right of enforcement.

[JGJ]

joan of arc,

 

My post #337 is exactly as I stated, I have the form in my hand looking at it now, N24 Notice of DEFENDANTS APPLICATION FOR REDETERMINATION. Successfully applied for and a REDETERMINATION obtained. Best of luck.

 

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

[questioning]

joan of arc,

 

My post #337 is exactly as I stated, I have the form in my hand looking at it now, N24 Notice of DEFENDANTS APPLICATION FOR REDETERMINATION. Successfully applied for and a REDETERMINATION obtained. Best of luck.

 

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

 

Well done JGJ,

Is this a form you use at anytime once you have received your judgment as I see that their is no fee to use it?

I'm just interested to know and its helpful for others too.

So far I know the CPR letter has to be done within 14 days after receiving judgment & no fee obviously and N245 can be used at any time after that and has a £35. fee.

 

I find the lack of information from Joans county court appalling, this info is readily available if you google so whats up with that court, they must know, to say they have no idea is dreadful. The court is supposed to explain procedure and tell you about forms available.

Edited April 22, 2009 by questioning

[Mightyacorn]

Oh and the other thing is, Joan has no income, be it gross or net. Mine is the only income, so how do we get round that one, if they look solely at her income?

 

They didn't look solely at my OH income, they took mine into account as well.

[questioning]

They didn't look solely at my OH income, they took mine into account as well.

 

Hi mightyacorn,

I hope this will make sense,

I had the information straight from a lady who actually goes through the enforcement of debt forms at court.

on my form it asked for my husbands income and mine plus benefits and anything else anyone gives you.

then it said expenses....only include what you pay from your income.

She said to do as the form said and just write, if I wanted to, that all other living expenses ie. morgage/rent etc. were paid by my husband.

I said why do you ask for my oh's income when he is not responsible for my debt?

She said don't worry we ask what your spouses income is but we then subtract that figure (his income ) so in effect it is not included because it is not his debt.

 

Mighty acorn, Was the reason that they took your spouses income into account because you had no income?

If so that means that if one has no income then the OH is liable for the partners debt.

That is the only conclusion I can come to regarding this and your post.

In that case it was a good thing for me that I only work part time.

Doesn't help Joan though.

I googled what happens if you have no income and cannot pay a CCJ.

I found an answer concerning setaside but I won't comment on that as i didn't look into it just a quick google.

 

If I were you Joan I would ring National debt line, I have always found them to be most helpful.

[joan_of_arc]

Hi everyone. We still haven't received the written judgement yet, and it's over a week since Judgement was handed down. Is that usual?