Newlyn Bailiffs and Huntingdon District Council

[smee76]

Hi,

 

I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice urgently!!! I have a bailiff attending again on Tuesday morning!

 

I am a self employed sole trader working from a small industrial unit. I have been unable to pay my NNDR (Business rates) so the local council applied to the courts and obtained a liablity order against me for just over £1500. They have now instructed Newlyn Bailiffs to collect. They attended on Monday this week with a van to remove goods. I had no choice but to let them in as my front door is always open for customers.

 

They were going to remove goods there and then unless I paid them £400 and signed a walking possession for the balance to be paid a week later

 

They have charged me £300 for the first visit, plus £64 levy fee and £12 walking possession. My questions are:

 

1. Can they charge £300 for a first visit on this? Some people say they can and others say they cannot.

2. They have listed on the walking possession all of my equipment, meaning if they took it, I would be unable to trade. Can they levy on tools of my trade? I have spoken to the council and the bailiffs office who both say as it is business rates, they can levy on tools of the trade, or how would they ever be able to levy anything in a small business.

 

I desperately need to be able to stop this action - any advice gratefully received! Can the bailiff levy on tools of the trade? The bailiff and the council say they can, but I was always told they cannot. If not, how do I stop the removal? I can raise half of the money, but not all, so the bailiff will be looking to remove goods on Tuesday which will close my business. How can I stop this happening.

 

Thanking you in advance.

 

smee

[kermit2482]

Hi,

 

I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice urgently!!! I have a bailiff attending again on Tuesday morning!

 

I am a self employed sole trader working from a small industrial unit. I have been unable to pay my NNDR (Business rates) so the local council applied to the courts and obtained a liablity order against me for just over £1500. They have now instructed Newlyn Bailiffs to collect. They attended on Monday this week with a van to remove goods. I had no choice but to let them in as my front door is always open for customers.

 

They were going to remove goods there and then unless I paid them £400 and signed a walking possession for the balance to be paid a week later

 

They have charged me £300 for the first visit, plus £64 levy fee and £12 walking possession. My questions are:

 

1. Can they charge £300 for a first visit on this? Some people say they can and others say they cannot.

2. They have listed on the walking possession all of my equipment, meaning if they took it, I would be unable to trade. Can they levy on tools of my trade? I have spoken to the council and the bailiffs office who both say as it is business rates, they can levy on tools of the trade, or how would they ever be able to levy anything in a small business.

 

I desperately need to be able to stop this action - any advice gratefully received! Can the bailiff levy on tools of the trade? The bailiff and the council say they can, but I was always told they cannot. If not, how do I stop the removal? I can raise half of the money, but not all, so the bailiff will be looking to remove goods on Tuesday which will close my business. How can I stop this happening.

 

Thanking you in advance.

 

smee

 

Hi,

 

Firstly £300 is obsurd you should have just been given the chance to pay on a first visit ie £24.50 fees, if not then a levy would have been an option where upon a levy fee (percentage of the debt would have been charged) plus £12 walk in pocession charge plus £24.50 first visit fee.

 

Secondly YES they can legally levy on your tools of the trade however if they do get to the removal stage then they have to legally leave you with £150 worth of your tools, not great i know but totally legal!!

 

My advice would be to find out just how exactly they come to this figure for fees and tell them they can levy and you want to sort it out but to fill in a means enquiry form and pay according to the amount you can afford as poer the form, DO NOT LET THEM BULLY YOU, now tell em you know what hey can and cant do and if they dont accept that then please could i have a word with your superiors, i can pretty much guarantee they wont take your tools anyway, however be reasonable with them and just state facts dont get angry be polite and calm about it, the fact of the matter here is you know you owe it and you want to pay it but at a level you can afford, if it was me i would accept £400 and put you on an arrangement you could happily afford, but unfortunately im not the only bailiff around.

 

Hope this helps you in some way

 

kind regards Kermit

[smee76]

Thanks Kermit. Do you know how I can appeal against the £300 first visit fee? Both the council and the bailiff say it is "standard industry practise", but does that mean it is legal? I need to challenge it on Tuesday with the bailiff, but I know he will not listen and say I have to pay it or he will remove the goods. Any ideas as to how I should handle that?

 

Also, can you explain to me briefly how the 'tools of the trade' thing works. There are loads of mentions on forums stating that they cannot be taken, but you say they can in this case. Can you tell me how this case differs?

 

Thanks again

 

Simon

[amandahugunkiss]

hi, i'm afraid you will not be able to dispute the fees, once they have the liability order issued against you they are allowed to do that, the reason it was so high i assume would be because the came to the property with a van to remove goods? But to be honest there is no point in disputing the fees.

It is illegal to take tools of the trade so i'm sure if they have said they will its just to scare you.

[robin9342]

hi, i'm afraid you will not be able to dispute the fees, once they have the liability order issued against you they are allowed to do that, the reason it was so high i assume would be because the came to the property with a van to remove goods? But to be honest there is no point in disputing the fees.

It is illegal to take tools of the trade so i'm sure if they have said they will its just to scare you.

 

Huh? Bailiff fees are laid down in statute and if the fees are excessive, as appears to be the case here, of course they can be challenged. In fact, charging higher fees than permitted by law is fraud. Van fees also have to be "reasonable".

[robin9342]

Secondly YES they can legally levy on your tools of the trade however if they do get to the removal stage then they have to legally leave you with £150 worth of your tools, not great i know but totally legal!!

 

Kermit, please can you provide where you have obtained this information?

Every site I have checked, including government sites and even Marstons bailiff site states that tools of the trade are exempt :???:

[smee76]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

Kermit - can you let me know where I can find details of the tools of the trade rules as you state? As Robin says, everywhere I look says they are exempt, but it is interesting that you as a bailiff and newlyns as a bailiff company, and the council who have a biased interest, are the only three who state it is legal. Do you all know something we dont?

 

Secondly, I have been told that the van fee can only be charged after a levy has been made. Is this true?

 

Thanks again

 

Simon

[tonycee]

Secondly YES they can legally levy on your tools of the trade however if they do get to the removal stage then they have to legally leave you with £150 worth of your tools, not great i know but totally legal!!

 

ANOTHER delusional, fear intended remark from a bailiff.

 

 

Kermit, please can you provide where you have obtained this information?

 

Dont hold your breath.

[kermit2482]

ANOTHER delusional, fear intended remark from a bailiff.

 

 

 

 

Dont hold your breath.

 

Tony cee [personal remark removed], if you have a problem with me and my posts then please dont reply!!

 

As for tools of the trade i have personally taken a taxi and when challenged it was found to be perfectly legal due to the circumstances surrounding the case, Now only a fool would post on this open forum what those circumstances were as most on here would make sure nobody else falls foul of this!!

 

All the training i have ever had and all the jobs i have ever done have never resulted in any type of prosecution so i speak from my own personal experiences, YES im a bailiff and YES i WILL do my job, however when i feel someone is being wronged and a bailiff is being exessive i WILL speak out and indeed try and help as many on here could vouch for, however what i wont put up with is mallicious rubbish from certain members on here that purely have a problem just because of the job i do!!

 

kind regards Kermit

Edited August 28, 2008 by alanfromderby

[kermit2482]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

Kermit - can you let me know where I can find details of the tools of the trade rules as you state? As Robin says, everywhere I look says they are exempt, but it is interesting that you as a bailiff and newlyns as a bailiff company, and the council who have a biased interest, are the only three who state it is legal. Do you all know something we dont?

 

Secondly, I have been told that the van fee can only be charged after a levy has been made. Is this true?

 

Thanks again

 

Simon

 

They are exempt to a cetain degree so long as we leave you with enough tools to carry on your trade then we are NOT acting illegally, let me give you an example here, Say your an electrician most tradesmen have more than 1 drill and more than 1 set of pliers, i shall assume here you get my drift, so lets say the bailiff takes one drill and one set of pliers, the electrician can still carry on with his/her trade, so please when i say tools of the trade CAN be taken i speak from experience!!

 

kind regards Kermit

[smee76]

Thanks Kermit. From what you say, you seem to be much more reasonable than my chap. In my case, I am a printer and the goods levied include my printing press, platemaker, signmaker, etc. Several thousand pounds worth and I have only one of each due to their cost. Without these I cannot print, hence cannot work. I understand your example with the drill, but in this case I assume my goods would be exempt. In fact I will quote the bailiff - "if you don't pay, we will remove all the goods listed, which will close you down" I take this as a threat and consider this bailiff to be acting illegally. Can they take my goods to "close me down"? I am considering a From 4 complaint against this chap, but not sure if I have sufficient grounds. What do you think? Is he acting illegally?

[robin9342]

As for tools of the trade i have personally taken a taxi and when challenged it was found to be perfectly legal due to the circumstances surrounding the case, Now only a fool would post on this open forum what those circumstances were as most on here would make sure nobody else falls foul of this!! Of course we would! The very fact that you have written this statement implies there was some wrongdoing or trickery on your part. Most reasonable people would agree that a taxi driver cannot do his job without a taxi .

 

All the training i have ever had and all the jobs i have ever done have never resulted in any type of prosecution so i speak from my own personal experiences, YES im a bailiff and YES i WILL do my job, however when i feel someone is being wronged and a bailiff is being exessive i WILL speak out and indeed try and help as many on here could vouch for, however what i wont put up with is mallicious rubbish from certain members on here that purely have a problem just because of the job i do!! In which case, you have a lot of typing to do because virtually every bailiff thread on this forum consists of some illegal, unreasonable or excessive behaviour! Furthermore, as has been stated before, you cannot come to this forum as a bailiff and expect everyone to agree with you...

 

kind regards Kermit

..

[robin9342]

They are exempt to a cetain degree so long as we leave you with enough tools to carry on your trade then we are NOT acting illegally, let me give you an example here, Say your an electrician most tradesmen have more than 1 drill and more than 1 set of pliers, i shall assume here you get my drift, so lets say the bailiff takes one drill and one set of pliers, the electrician can still carry on with his/her trade, so please when i say tools of the trade CAN be taken i speak from experience!!

 

kind regards Kermit

You may well speak from experience, but that does not necessarily mean you have acted within the law! Please provide details of the law which you consider allows you to remove ANY tools of the trade. I have looked very hard and cannot find it. As Tonycee says, I'm not holding my breath....

[smee76]

Thanks Robin. I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought tools of the trade were exempt. Even my local council say they can be levied. If the bailiff and my local council have been lying to me, I think they may have a fight in front of them.

 

Simon

[robin9342]

It seems your council is wrong and the bailiff is doing what they do best: lying. I have yet to see stated anywhere that a bailiff can take some tools of the trade and leave others.

 

Of course, being open-minded, I am still awaiting Kermit's reply with proof that we are all wrong..............

[kermit2482]

Indeed this proves my point some of you on this forum will think what you like anyway regardless of the truth, im beginning to ask myself why the hell i bother as even though in the main i help people you just cant please most!!

 

Im also beginning to wonder why some bailiffs treat people the way they do is it perhaps because of some of the posters attittudes on here, the mind boggles, SOME NOT all of you deserve everything you get, now have a nice life!!!

 

Caz and co if you read this then i clearly dont refer to you and will continue to help you via e mail as i clearly cant be bothered to deal with what in my opinion are juveniles any longer!!!

[robin9342]

Kermit, please just answer the question, or admit that there is no such law which allows you to take any tools of the trade. Thank you. There, nothing juvenile about that.

[smee76]

Hiya,

I am geuinely grateful for any help, and thank you all for your input.

I have a small business, and if i cannot sort this one thing out, i am in danger of ceasing to trade this week. If it is written anywhere what bailiffs can or cannot do, reffering to taking my equipment, I would just like to know where, so I can save my business. So please, could someone tell me if there is such a page anywhere?

 

Yours gratefully

 

Smee

[robin9342]

What can a bailiff take?

 

Bailiffs can't take essentials such as clothing, bedding, cookers, fridges, most furniture and the 'tools of your trade' (for example, a computer you use for work).

 

Taken from the government website:

Bailiffs and debt collectors : Directgov - Money, tax and benefits

 

Notice that it does not say "bailiffs can take some of your tools as long as they leave you £150 worth"......

 

Notice that despite being asked repeatedly to provide proof to the contrary, Kermit has not done so.

[robin9342]

Try getting an education and reading my posts then and only then will you understand, perhaps theres no getting through to some thickos, now i have had enough of trying to reason with idiots and i repeat some of you deserve all you get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have read your posts. I do have a very good education. However, you have yet to provide the proof we are all waiting for that the governments own website is wrong and that you are right........

[tonycee]

Tony cee will you [original post edited], if you have a problem with me and my posts then please dont reply!!

 

Out of respect for the site that has given me so much, i have agreed not to become re embroiled in a slanging match with you.

 

As for tools of the trade i have personally taken a taxi and when challenged it was found to be perfectly legal due to the circumstances surrounding the case, Now only a fool would post on this open forum what those circumstances were as most on here would make sure nobody else falls foul of this!!

 

I dont dispute the fact that certain circumstances permit certain actions.

 

You implied that you have powers beyond those legislated.

 

All the training i have ever had and all the jobs i have ever done have never resulted in any type of prosecution so i speak from my own personal experiences, YES im a bailiff and YES i WILL do my job, however when i feel someone is being wronged and a bailiff is being exessive i WILL speak out and indeed try and help as many on here could vouch for, however what i wont put up with is mallicious rubbish from certain members on here that purely have a problem just because of the job i do!!

 

kind regards Kermit

 

Thats very kind of you to try and help.

All i asked was for you to explain your definition of bailiff powers.

One that clearly differs from the laws on the land.

Edited August 28, 2008 by alanfromderby

[smee76]

[Original post unapproved]

 

I hope that post was not intended for me, as I am quite offended by it.

 

I do have an education and understand what you have said, BUT it is only what you have said, and it goes against everything else on the web. Surely you can see that all we are asking is for some clarification on this from an independant source. I could come on and say anything I wanted, but unless it could be clarified, no-one would believe me would they?

 

Indeed this proves my point some of you on this forum will think what you like anyway regardless of the truth' date=' im beginning to ask myself why the hell i bother as even though in the main i help people you just cant please most!![/quote']

 

We only have your say so that this is the truth - I am politely asking where this information is.

 

From what I have seen, you are the only one who has lowered this into a slanging match, so can you please return this tread to it's original point and offer me some answers if possible please.

 

Thank you

Simon

Edited August 28, 2008 by alanfromderby

[kermit2482]

 

 

 

I dont dispute the fact that certain circumstances permit certain actions.

 

.

 

 

Exactly but the problem here is that some posters on this site think things are as clear as black and white and in bailiff law unfortunately they are NOT, sorry folks but thats not my fault neither, THERE ARE certain circumstances when bailiffs can do things which on the outside dont appear qiuite right however when challenged in court appear to be perfectly legal and this site has plenty of case history to prove my case and indeed some to prove against, however unlike some on here im a realist and accept that there is some bad but its about time some on here accepted that theres also some good, Now lets get back to rational thinking!!

 

As for the taxi business all i will simply say is that said taxi driver was not left without a tool of his/her trade now do some thinking and you might just come up with the correct answer, so please stop trying to trip me up as i have been in this game for long enough to know whats legal and whats not!!

 

kind regards Kermit

[kermit2482]

 

 

 

We only have your say so that this is the truth - I am politely asking where this information is.

 

From what I have seen, you are the only one who has lowered this into a slanging match, so can you please return this tread to it's original point and offer me some answers if possible please.

 

Thank you

Simon

 

 

Hi Simon you seem half reasonable so please may i refer you to the above post, Also i would like to point out that i have received many thanks from posters on this forum, some of whom are Nursecaz, Rottweillermick, and Daniel, These are just some of the people i feel have been wronged by a bailiff and whom i have offered assistance too, i hope this clarifies the situation for you!!

 

kind regards Kermit

[tonycee]

Exactly but the problem here is that some posters on this site think things are as clear as black and white and in bailiff law unfortunately they are NOT, sorry folks but thats not my fault neither, THERE ARE certain circumstances when bailiffs can do things which on the outside dont appear qiuite right however when challenged in court appear to be perfectly legal and this site has plenty of case history to prove my case and indeed some to prove against, however unlike some on here im a realist and accept that there is some bad but its about time some on here accepted that theres also some good, Now lets get back to rational thinking!!

 

As for the taxi business all i will simply say is that said taxi driver was not left without a tool of his/her trade now do some thinking and you might just come up with the correct answer, so please stop trying to trip me up as i have been in this game for long enough to know whats legal and whats not!!

 

kind regards Kermit

 

So we have civil law, and now there is " Bailiff Law "

 

As Kermit is one of the mupetts, i rest my case.

 

This hypocrisy is complete muppetry.