MBNA Credit Card - Harrassment and Porkies

[Missy Allen]

Hi

 

My offer was about 50% but I have to say I have not received any telephone calls at all. I did receive a letter from some "Manager" stating that my telephone details would be removed from their systems and that the Credit Agreement would be sent under separate cover. They have not cashed the cheque and the copy Agreement has not appeared - they are outside the timescale in which to provide it.

 

I have not sent any money and they have not made any further contact so I am just going to wait and see and let you all know.

 

Missy Allen

[Missy Allen]

Just to let you all know MBNA did send me a copy of the credit agreement together with an up todate statement which showed that they had credited the whole of the outstanding balance.

 

Thanks for all your advice.

 

Missy Allen

[Missy Allen]

I received a copy of the CCA together with a statement which showed a full credit on my account and the balance is therefore nil. I presumed that they had credited the account because the debt was unenforceable. That was about a month ago. I have now received 2 letters from Cabot Financial saying that they have purchased the debt although the 2 letters show different outstanding amounts and they contain an account number which definitely does not relate to me. I have just written to them to say that as far as I am aware I do not have an outstanding balance with MBNA and have never held an account under the number they have quoted. Does anyone have any advice?

 

Thanks

 

Missy Allen

[AA99]

I believe you can now ask for a legal copy of the transfer of your debt to Cabot but there are better experts on your thread than me who will advise accordingly.

 

I am watching yours, maybe you could watch mine too, in exactly the same boat as you and I believe 7 million others too, so chin up

 

AA99 v MBNA

[Fred Bassett]

I received a copy of the CCA together with a statement which showed a full credit on my account and the balance is therefore nil. I presumed that they had credited the account because the debt was unenforceable. That was about a month ago. I have now received 2 letters from Cabot Financial saying that they have purchased the debt although the 2 letters show different outstanding amounts and they contain an account number which definitely does not relate to me. I have just written to them to say that as far as I am aware I do not have an outstanding balance with MBNA and have never held an account under the number they have quoted. Does anyone have any advice?

 

Thanks

 

Missy Allen

 

Missy Allen,

 

Watch out for Cabot. They have bought stacks of debt lately and I think they've got themselves into a right mess. I am having a very similar argument with them regarding a Goldfish debt. Have a look at this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131660-fred-bassett-morgan-stanley.html and you will see what I mean. You may find a number of similarities.

 

I'll be watching your thread with interest.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Missy Allen]

Virgin MBNA have sent a copy of the CCA but I do not know if it is enforceable. It is a copy of the application form which my husband completed in a service station. It does have his name and address - handwritten by himself - his signature but is this the same as a credit agreement?

[AndyOrch]

if you can post a copy of the CCA less your personal details of course and we will take a look

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Missy Allen]

I have attached a scan of the CCA if you would take a look please. Thanks

[SteveH2508]

It is VERY hard to see but there does not seem to be much substance to it. Is that all they sent?

[Fred Bassett]

I have attached a scan of the CCA if you would take a look please. Thanks

 

It's a bit small - can you post up a full-size copy?

 

Fred

[Missy Allen]

I am trying to insert the copy but don't seem to be able to do it. Can anyone give me instructions. I have scanned it into the computer but I cannot copy and paste it.

[Fred Bassett]

I am trying to insert the copy but don't seem to be able to do it. Can anyone give me instructions. I have scanned it into the computer but I cannot copy and paste it.

 

Missy Allen,

 

Do you have a PhotoBucket account? If not, then it would be a good idea to get one. It's free and you can get to it here: Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket Once you get an account, look for the link to upload files. When you have uploaded the files, you can see thumbnails of them and links to the side - click once in the link entitled 'Direct Link' and your link will then be in the clipboard. Then, from this reply box, click the image (the one just under the left arrow) and paste the link (ctrl+v). The image will then appear full size in your post.

 

Hope that's OK.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Missy Allen]

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/bernadetteallen/scan0002-1.jpg

 

Hope this has worked.

[SteveH2508]

I don't see ANY prescribed terms on what you have posted so if that is all they have it is unenforceable.

[Missy Allen]

What are prescribed terms?

[Missy Allen]

They some other photocopies sheets with it which contain headings such as Financial and related details, How we work out your interest, Charges and some other photocopies sheets on how to complain. Do you want me to scan those as well?

[Manthpa]

Just so you know Missy Allen, MBNA is an American bank, it used to be called Maryland Bank of North America and is owned by Bank of America. When you were told they could only accept a certain amount they mean that to stop your interest and fees they need to get AT LEAST 0.8% of the balance when the agreement is started.

 

You will need to prove you can only afford that with a financial statement. They also work on pro rata basis. eg you have 2 cards one with £1k and one with £2k. in that case they will expect you to be paying twice as much to the £2k card.

[Fred Bassett]

You will need to prove you can only afford that with a financial statement. They also work on pro rata basis. eg you have 2 cards one with £1k and one with £2k. in that case they will expect you to be paying twice as much to the £2k card.

 

MBNA corporately and the individuals who work for it are absolute ****. If they haven't got a properly-executed agreement then they will get what they are given, if anything.

 

Fred

[Missy Allen]

I would be grateful if you could tell me whether the agreement is actually legally enforceable. The debt is no longer with MBNA but Cabot Financial.

 

When I requested a copy of the CCA they sent it to me together with an up to date statement showing a nil balance. There was covering letter just stating that the agreement was enclosed.

 

I therefore presumed that the agreement was unenforceable which is why my balance had been reduced to nil. This was about the 21 August. A few days ago I receive a letter from Cabot Financial saying they have bought the debt from MBNA but have a different amount outstanding and a completely unknown account number so I have just written back stating that I do not have an outstanding balance with MBNA and the account number means nothing to me. Cheeky I know and I will probably fall flat on face with it but I am admitting to nothing at the moment because MBNA have not informed me that they have sold the debt and the account number is definitely nothing to do with me.

 

I would be grateful if someone could tell me if the agreement is legally binding though.

 

Thanks

 

Missy Allen

[AA99]

Hi Missy

 

Have just read your post and have seen this answered in quite a few other ***** v MBNA threads. Am pretty sure I have read somewhere else, not to panic, am at a similar stage with a few of my creditors. Try look them up too and you can also offer your own tips on the way

[SteveH2508]

I suspect the reason for the nil balance is when they 'sold' the debt. They MUST send you a default notice (which may well have a different account number on it rendering it defective) - they must also notify you in writing of the assignment of the debt.

 

Knowing MBNA they have probably c*cked it up somewhere along the line.

 

As for prescribed terms they are (for a credit card):-

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

 

These terms must be contained 'within the four corners of the agreement'. They are clearly not on the page that you signed therefore the accompanying documents must be the original terms and conditions and demonstrably linked to the signature document. I doubt that this is the case (knowing MBNA)

[tinkerbell20]

I suspect the reason for the nil balance is when they 'sold' the debt. They MUST send you a default notice (which may well have a different account number on it rendering it defective) - they must also notify you in writing of the assignment of the debt.

 

Knowing MBNA they have probably c*cked it up somewhere along the line.

 

As for prescribed terms they are (for a credit card):-

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

 

These terms must be contained 'within the four corners of the agreement'. They are clearly not on the page that you signed therefore the accompanying documents must be the original terms and conditions and demonstrably linked to the signature document. I doubt that this is the case (knowing MBNA)

 

The prescribed terms outlined above MUST be contained within the four corners of the agreement. They cannot be in a different document.

[SteveH2508]

TB

 

Agreed - the prescribed terms may appear on another page of the same document if they are clearly the same document - I was trying to keep it simple for the OP without going into loads of case law. Without seeing the other paperwork it is impossible to be specific. I strongly suspect that the T&Cs will be recent (not the ones pertaining at the time of signing) and therefore it is unenforceable. We do not want to build false hopes though do we?

[Missy Allen]

Dear SteveH2508,

 

I have not received a deault notice, I have received letters stating that if you do not pay we will register a default notice but not actually received a default notice. I have also checked through all the correspondence from MBNA and it all contains the same account number except for the letters from Cabot Financial. I have also not received any communication from MBNA informing me that they have assigned the debt to Cabot Financial.

 

Do I just wait for a reply to my letter from Cabot Financial (I wrote to say that I do not have an outstanding balance with MBNA and the account number does not relate to me.)? Or do I write to Cabot Financial stating that the agreement is unenforceable due to the prescribed terms. The actual page that has been signed has the T&C's on the other side but I do not know whether they were the ones present at the time of taking out the card (it was being sold at a service station on the motorway). The rest of the document looks like just random photocopied pages of other T&C's.

 

Please tell me what to do I do not want to get into a pickle with this.

 

Thanks

[SteveH2508]

Dear SteveH2508,

 

I have not received a deault notice, I have received letters stating that if you do not pay we will register a default notice but not actually received a default notice. I have also checked through all the correspondence from MBNA and it all contains the same account number except for the letters from Cabot Financial. I have also not received any communication from MBNA informing me that they have assigned the debt to Cabot Financial.

 

Do I just wait for a reply to my letter from Cabot Financial (I wrote to say that I do not have an outstanding balance with MBNA and the account number does not relate to me.)? Or do I write to Cabot Financial stating that the agreement is unenforceable due to the prescribed terms. The actual page that has been signed has the T&C's on the other side but I do not know whether they were the ones present at the time of taking out the card (it was being sold at a service station on the motorway). The rest of the document looks like just random photocopied pages of other T&C's.

 

Please tell me what to do I do not want to get into a pickle with this.

 

Thanks

 

For the moment, do nothing. You have raised a legitimate query with Cabot (nil balance and unrecognised account number). They need to sort it out - DO NOT PROMPT THEM! They know what they need to enforce - let them try to get it together. This is all about who blinks first.

 

I have no experience of Cabot but there are many CAGgers who do (Search for The Cabot Fan Club).

 

My guess is that Cabot are acting as agents and will pass this back to MBNA who will try some other crowd of bottom-feeding pond-life.

 

Be aware that MBNA will almost certainly issue a Default Notice at some stage (usually 6 or 7 months after the first missed payment). If and when it arrives, note the date it arrives and KEEP the envelope as well.

 

The usual giveaway on the Terms and Conditions is the amount of penalty charges quoted. In 2005 when you took out the card they were £25 IIRC but the ones you have will probably say £12.