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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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Hi all

 

Things have been pretty much ticking over for a bit, but I'm now seriously considering bankruptcy so I can get a fresh start.

 

Fully expect to get an IPA and maybe even a BRU/O, but I just had some questions so I can sort some stuff out and make my final decision, if you don't mind icon_smile.gif

 

1. My flat was repossessed in January - it's on the market, but no sale as yet (hasn't gone to auction yet either, as far as I know). There will be a large shortfall (which is pretty much what's made me consider bankruptcy), but obviously until it's sold, I don't know what that is going to be. Is there a problem including this in the bankruptcy?

 

2. If a debt isn't included in bankruptcy, can the lender come after you post-bankruptcy for it, or does bankruptcy wipe the slate clean of everything at that date, regardless of whether you write it down? Reason being that I have several statute-barred debts & unenforceable agreements that are still being chased from time-to-time - on one hand I'm loathe to include them because they're not enforceable and I'd hate to see them get even 1p from what will be a very limited estate, but on the other hand I'd like to have rid of them for the future - i.e. I don't want anyone to be able to come after me after bankruptcy!

 

3. I work ~40 miles away from home, and my car's pretty essential to do that journey (doing it by public transport would cost at least twice as much, and take at least three times as long!), and I'd say it was worth £500 at a maximum. Do you think the OR would grant an exemption?

 

4. I live with my girlfriend in a rented flat. Currently, all the bills are in my name on monthly direct debits, and she gives me ~£500 a month as her contribution. Obviously it's probably best for me to transfer whatever bills I can into her name so that we can carry on paying monthly (and any outstanding balance from it being in my name can be included in the bankruptcy), but I'm unsure as to what the best policy is to sort out whether it's best for us to get a joint account and have the bills paid out of that. Would the OR freeze a joint account on bankruptcy, since it'd have my name on it? I'm more tempted to let her have the direct debits on her account and pay her my contribution each month.

 

5. Can Council Tax debts be included in bankruptcy?

 

Thanks in advance for your help as always icon_smile.gif

 

Cheers

Michael

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Hi, was in a similar situation myself a couple of years ago, but escaped at the 11th hour. The shortfall on the house is something I am unsure about, and need to know for some friends who are facing repossession. I would think that even though the amount is not yet known it should still be included. Likewise with the council tax, but I suspect that might be included.

 

As regards the cards with the statute barred/uncertain cca's - if it was me I would include the lot. I am riding on almost 80k of unenforceable debt and if some case in the future (not including the ridiculous Rankine case) gives the green light for enforcement I will be up the creek so to speak. So even if they will get something I would strongly recommend that you include every last penny you owe.

 

The car should be fine - I think you can have one up to £2k in value so yours should be well within that.

 

The bank account - I would not open a joint account at this stage, unless it is a basic account, which you are allowed to have. You are allowed to live of course, but probably a bad idea to link yourself to the girlfriend's money at this stage.

 

Other people might give you better advice - all I know is what I researched when I was considering it.

 

Best of luck. A friend of mine was discharged last month and she reckons it was the best thing she ever did. Only works if you don't have any assets of course.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Hey Michael,

 

Sorry I can't offer advice to you, just wanted to say I hope things go as well as they possibly can for ya.

 

...and it serves as a bump, if nothing else!

 

Best wishes ;)

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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Thanks both :)

 

B4E - yeah, know about that one ta, it doesn't answer a lot of questions though :)

 

GL - I'm ready for this one (and the OH is too!), decided I need a complete break (though would love to spend days & weeks going through the dance with all the creditors!). Thanks for your comments - really helps things in my mind :)

 

J2B - appreciate it me old mucker :) About time this old tart got himself properly sorted :D

 

Cheers

Michael

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I went through the interviews with the OR with my friend and the guy who dealt with her case was really sympathetic and helpful. I would suggest in the current economic climate that it will be a bit of a production line and unless you have committed serious amounts of financial debauchery that you will be OK. My friend was 65, retired and on benefits - she had been given huge amounts of credit and used it to the full - holidays every couple of weeks, lots of presents for her grandchildren etc etc. Whilst the OR was somewhat amazed at how someone could get through so much money in such a short space of time, we discussed the irresponsible lending aspect and as I said above she was discharged after a year.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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I wouldn't open a joint account Michael, your girlfriend would be associated with you, and that may damage her credit rating too.

 

I know you are a switched on guy Michael, if that's the only way, then good luck. Holler if you need anything. . .

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Please be aware of acting on advice given by PM .Anyone can make mistakes and if advice is given on the main forum people can see it to correct it ,if given privately then no one can see it to correct it. Please also be aware of giving your personal details to strangers

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Hi all

 

Things have been pretty much ticking over for a bit, but I'm now seriously considering bankruptcy so I can get a fresh start.

 

Fully expect to get an IPA and maybe even a BRU/O, but I just had some questions so I can sort some stuff out and make my final decision, if you don't mind icon_smile.gif

 

Why do you think you would get a BRO? Very few people do.

1. My flat was repossessed in January - it's on the market, but no sale as yet (hasn't gone to auction yet either, as far as I know). There will be a large shortfall (which is pretty much what's made me consider bankruptcy), but obviously until it's sold, I don't know what that is going to be. Is there a problem including this in the bankruptcy?

 

There shouldn't be a problem with including it, AFAIK including the debt in the BR is enough, the size of it is irrelevant.

2. If a debt isn't included in bankruptcy, can the lender come after you post-bankruptcy for it, or does bankruptcy wipe the slate clean of everything at that date, regardless of whether you write it down? Reason being that I have several statute-barred debts & unenforceable agreements that are still being chased from time-to-time - on one hand I'm loathe to include them because they're not enforceable and I'd hate to see them get even 1p from what will be a very limited estate, but on the other hand I'd like to have rid of them for the future - i.e. I don't want anyone to be able to come after me after bankruptcy!

 

I think you should list them all and let the OR sort out what is relevant or not, you can make the point to the OR. In your case BR is a fresh financial start, and no point in you worrying about it anymore. Include them all, just to be sure.

 

3. I work ~40 miles away from home, and my car's pretty essential to do that journey (doing it by public transport would cost at least twice as much, and take at least three times as long!), and I'd say it was worth £500 at a maximum. Do you think the OR would grant an exemption?

 

I would be very surprised if you were not allowed to keep this vehicle.

4. I live with my girlfriend in a rented flat. Currently, all the bills are in my name on monthly direct debits, and she gives me ~£500 a month as her contribution. Obviously it's probably best for me to transfer whatever bills I can into her name so that we can carry on paying monthly (and any outstanding balance from it being in my name can be included in the bankruptcy), but I'm unsure as to what the best policy is to sort out whether it's best for us to get a joint account and have the bills paid out of that. Would the OR freeze a joint account on bankruptcy, since it'd have my name on it? I'm more tempted to let her have the direct debits on her account and pay her my contribution each month.

 

Any account you have pre BR will be closed. After BR you will need to get a basic account, Nationwide and the Co-op are the most accommodating for bankrupts, and both supply an electron card and online banking with their accounts, be sure that when you apply to open the account you inform them of your status.

I think it would probably be easiest for your girlfreind to open an account and get the bills set up from there, and post BR you make a SO to transfer your contribution to her.

 

5. Can Council Tax debts be included in bankruptcy?

 

Thanks in advance for your help as always icon_smile.gif

 

Cheers

Michael

 

Have a read here , it may answer some other questions you have.

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Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Thanks again everyone - knew I'd get the answers here, you're all brilliant as always & it really helps a lot :)

 

I tried a DMP a few years back, but that worked out at around 22 years to pay back. Also looked at IVAs, but that would mean creditors continuing to rule my life for the next 5 years. Besides, the rules under BR seem to actually allow you to live a relatively normal life and everything's sorted there & then - whereas with an IVA you've got more allowance restrictions, need agreement and also there's a longer impact on your credit file (another 6 years from IVA completion)!

 

BTW, on the bank account front, I knew about the Co-Op being good, but it's good to hear about Nationwide offering an account too - I might end up with them as their branches are better for me :)

 

Why do you think you would get a BRO? Very few people do.

 

Well, more a BRU really - I was thinking that they might view some of my borrowing as irresponsible, etc.. anyway, I don't really see a BRU/BRO being a big problem - I've lived without getting new credit for long enough to be used to it :D

 

Cheers

Michael

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I doubt if it would be considered irresponsible, unless you have been buying luxury goods regularly and taking expensive holidays with no chance of paying it off.

 

What have you been spending on and how much we talking about here?

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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I doubt if it would be considered irresponsible, unless you have been buying luxury goods regularly and taking expensive holidays with no chance of paying it off.

 

What have you been spending on and how much we talking about here?

 

Well, some holidays have been involved, but I wouldn't have called them luxury ones - and I don't have luxury goods anywhere. Mind, at the time I could afford it - it was before I went through a bad patch a couple of years ago, and I was earning a very good salary before I became unemployed (should've bloody well done it then when I wouldn't have had to pay the court fee!).

 

The amount....well I haven't actually totalled it up properly yet, but I think it's prob £50k or so :( Of course, it could well be £25-30k more if/when the mortgage shortfall's confirmed.

 

Cheers

Michael

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If you spent it when you thought you could repay, it cannot be considered irresponsible, however you spent it.

 

Now, that's logical :D

Thanks {{HUG}} :)

 

Cheers

Michael

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Gizmo bringing gerat advice to the table as usual.

 

Absolutely :)

 

btw: c.tax arrears CAN be included although they may try and recover the debt up until the point of discharge.

 

Thanks for that, but would I just counter that with "I've gone BR, here's the order"? Would they still be able to make a liability order?

 

hi mcuth good luck i am also declaring myself bankrupt in 2 weeks time a bit the same as u took a lot of loan without even thinking of the repayment! good luck .

 

Thanks - might be a little bit longer than 2 weeks for me (gotta find that £500!), but good luck to you too :)

 

Cheers

Michael

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to pay for the official Reciever and the court fee i had to stop paying my creditor, this was advise to me by National Debtline, and i can tell you there are not very happy bunny !!!

 

anyway i can tell you that i learn my lesson no more loan, credit card, etc.... i wished i had been more careful when i was younger.

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to pay for the official Reciever and the court fee i had to stop paying my creditor, this was advise to me by National Debtline, and i can tell you there are not very happy bunny !!!

 

Aye, well, more important to get the BR fees sorted :) Personally, I think it makes it a lot easier dealing with creditors when you've got BR sorted in your mind..

 

anyway i can tell you that i learn my lesson no more loan, credit card, etc.... i wished i had been more careful when i was younger.

 

Completely, totally & utterly agree! :)

 

Cheers

Michael

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personally, I would recommend not going for bankruptcy until the shortfall (if any) is known. it is always possible that there might not be a shortfall... you never know...

 

Worth talking to the national debt line, though.

 

Once you've decided on BR, the creditors are irrelevant. There is nothing more they can do with you.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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personally, I would recommend not going for bankruptcy until the shortfall (if any) is known. it is always possible that there might not be a shortfall... you never know...

 

Thanks - ideally I'd like to do that too, but with the current housing market if they sold right now for the price being asked (which has been reduced by £25k), the shortfall would be ~£30k! So I can't see it making it to any positive equity in the near future...

 

Worth talking to the national debt line, though.

 

Aye, I keep meaning to call them....

 

Once you've decided on BR, the creditors are irrelevant. There is nothing more they can do with you.

 

That's always nice to hear, thanks matey :)

 

Cheers

Michael

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Micheal,

 

I think you have posed an interesting question here.

You know, I have a similar problem in that all I seem to be doing is working to pay off interest on cards and loans from long ago.Divorce,losing equity and a bad move with a relationship resulted in making my financial situation a complete disaster zone.

Anyway, I have now met a dual citizenship Australian who wants to move back to Australia and take me with her.

I have thought many times about BR but worry about the consequenses in the post BR situation. Just what happens, will I be able to get a mortgage and all the other practical applications in the process of life.

Still in a situation of owing a great deal of money with no hope of paying off in the short term. Would BR be a solution and would I be allowed to emigrate to Australia.

As a note, My GF is completly solvent, has a house with mortgage, has investments. So....do not want to harm her credit rating which is 100 per cent. Would the BR option harm her ratings as we living at the same address?

As a footnote, Michael I wish you the best of luck.

 

Nick

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I would suggest that you move to Australia and then go BR as I suspect it would not work the other way round:D

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Barclays have been very good with me, but they do freeze the account and send the money to the OR. You have to prepare for this by taking out enough to live on while the OR returns the funds. You also have to make alternative arrangments to pay items set up on D/Ds and S/Os during this time. They even refunded a charge for a returned D/D that I forgot about.

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All the accounts that where connected to me where empty when i went BR (wasnt hard to do as they never had much in them anyway:rolleyes:)

 

And everything DD wise was moved to my OH,s account with another bank.

 

My OR was very impressed apparently as not many do that and it creates them a hell of a lot of work so she said

 

First thing financially i got right in about seven years then:oops::p talk about too little too late, sigh:rolleyes:

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