Chalkitup v Citi / 1st Credit

[Chalkitup]

Hello All,

As some of you know by following my http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/107261-chalkitup-dcas-2.html thread I have been in a DMP (debt management plan) with CCCS for quite a time now.

All was going well until a few creditors decided in their wisdom that they should involve DCAs. Following advice from CAG members I sent CCA requests out. Then I became ill but during my long recovery I watched and learnt from this site and now I am picking up where I left off. This thread and others which I will soon start for each individual creditor will reveal the up to date happenings.

 

So here we go ..... Citi / 1st Credit..

Default notice arrives - May 2007 - BUT as pt2537 noted on another thread (which made me check) the notice does not give me fourteen days from date of service to remedy the default ..... only 13 days hence I believe breaking the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561).

June 2007 - Notice of Assignment arrives

CCA request sent July 2007

Received and signed for by 1st Credit July 2007

Three days later received 1st Credit letter advising agreement may take at least a month to get!!

Late 2007 - Citi refused monthly payments from CCCS saying debt sold on!

NOTHING AT ALL RECEIVED YET

May 2008 Statement of account arrives with incorrect balance amounts and DATED May 2007 !!!

May 2008 - the phone calls start again from 1st Credit - I never answer security questions and record every call.

 

I was all set to send 1st Credit the Account In Dispute letter as kindly advised by babybear this week here ... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/133960-1st-credit-failure-produce.html#post1412232 ... POST 35 and I will add something about telephone harassment again as I have already told them last year.

 

BUT ..... this week I had a call from 1st Credit on my works mobile number .... Neither Citi nor 1st Credit ever had this number. Then a couple of days ago I receive another Notice of Assignment supposedly from Citi ... but not to Chalkitup, home address ..... This one is addressed to Chalkitup, XXXXXXXXXXX Limited, business address.

Now Citi never ever had this Buisness name or address ... mainly because I have only very recently formed the company!!!!

Please can any one advise if any data protection or other laws have been broken here by Citi / 1st Credit (the Notice of Assignment is of poor photocopy standard and I strongly beleive sent by 1st Credit) and what my action should be.

 

Thank you

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

Edited June 28, 2008 by Chalkitup
Added info.

[citizenB]

Hmm, now that is a puzzle. Where did they get the new telephone number. Is there any chance that in the setting up of your new business you have somehow provided the number to someone, a bank / business that would be checking your credit files / adding information for a reason and somehow the DCAs have picked up the new number?.

 

I am not sure what action you can take. However, if they are harrassing you on your business number, perhaps you could make a complaint to Trading Standards saying that by tying up your business number they are preventing you from trading ?.

[babybear39]

Thanks for the PM CIU.

 

Business accounts are way out my league but telephone harassment isn't. Send them this, it's a stronger version of the usual telphone harassment letter, amend to suit, send recorded, DO NOT SIGN, keep copies etc. :

 

- HARASSMENT WARNING -

WARNING; PROTECTION FROM HARASSMENT ACT 1997;

WARNING; COMMUNICATIONS ACT 2003. s127.

 

Telephone Number: {Your Telephone Number}

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

Dear Sir/Madam.

 

I am writing in relation to telephone calls that I have received from your organisation, which I deem to be personally harassing. I have verbally requested that these calls stop, but I am still receiving call. I now require the telephone number listed above to be completely removed from your systems.

 

I am in the view that your continued telephone calls put you in breach of the Protection of Harassment Act 1997.

 

This is a private telephone line, operated on a contract with the intention of receiving and making personal phone calls, I have not authorised any other member of my family to receive calls from your organisation using this PRIVATE TELEPHONE LINE.

 

By using this telephone number without my permission you are interferring with my ability to use my own private property for the duration of any call.

 

It is my right to require that this telephone line, which is licenced solely to myself, is kept clear for my own personal calls.

 

It is consquently my view that you are commiting the tort of interference with contract insofar as for the duration of each call you make to me without my permission, you are interfering with my contractual right to receive and make personal calls on my private telephone line.

 

Continued interference with my contractual rights in this manner may result in legal action.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to the Office of Communications, Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you may be liable for a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that all telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

This letter is courtesy of DMD, hope it helps.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

[Chalkitup]

Hello citizenB and babybear39,

 

Thanks for looking in and helping ....... just a few points that I forgot to mention .....

 

The mobile number they have started to call ... I have had for a long time. BUT never been written on credit card applications.

 

More of a worry ...... the debt with Citi / 1st Credit is for a personal credit card started many many years ago and nothing at all to do with my business!!

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[babybear39]

Put in the letter all numbers they've been using to try and contact you.

 

As it's old they may not have a CCA.

 

Have you recieved any reply/acknowledgement of your CCA request?

[Chalkitup]

All I have received since CCA request last July is ...

1st Credit letter advising agreement may take at least a month to get and that was three days after I sent the request.

May 2008 Statement of account arrives with incorrect balance amounts and DATED May 2007 !!!

May 2008 .. 1st Credit letter ... phone our "courteous and considerate" Debt Help Officers!!!

And that is it.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[babybear39]

How long is it since you made a payment/written acknowledgement against this alleged account?

[Chalkitup]

In DMP with CCCS then suddenly late 2007 - Citi refused anymore monthly payments from CCCS saying debt sold on!

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[babybear39]

Oh dear, they've broken OFT guidlines:

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that

they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery

action to 'the occupier' or sending a payment demand to all people sharing

the same name/date of birth as a debtor in the hope that contact with the

correct debtor will be made.

b. disclosing debt details to an individual when it is uncertain that they are

the debtor in question, for example, disclosing details to 'the occupier' of

an address.

c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such

as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money

advisers

d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives

[ODC]

May 2008 .. 1st Credit letter ... phone our "courteous and considerate" Debt Help Officers!!!

I think you could report them to the Advertising Standards Authority for that one.

[citizenB]

I think you could report them to the Advertising Standards Authority for that one.

 

nice one babybear.

 

I seem to be linking to this letter drafted by davefirewalker, but it would seem to fit the bill - post 128

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/148387-help48xxx-mbna-7.html#post1587823

[Chalkitup]

Oh dear, they've broken OFT guidlines:

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that

they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery

action to 'the occupier' or sending a payment demand to all people sharing

the same name/date of birth as a debtor in the hope that contact with the

correct debtor will be made.

b. disclosing debt details to an individual when it is uncertain that they are

the debtor in question, for example, disclosing details to 'the occupier' of

an address.

c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such

as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money

advisers

d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives

 

Hello babybear,

If you mean they should only talk to my appointed representative CCCS ........ last year 1st Credit contacted CCCS and got my monthly payment payable to themselves instead of Citi without my knowledge .... I was livid ..... told CCCS to reverse the action and on no account are they to do that again without contacting me .... so not sure if that would make a difference there.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

I think you could report them to the Advertising Standards Authority for that one.

 

Hello ODC,

Now that is a thought ....

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

I seem to be linking to this letter drafted by davefirewalker, but it would seem to fit the bill - post 128

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/148387-help48xxx-mbna-7.html#post1587823

 

Hello citizenB,

Thanks for that .... I will put a letter together to send to 1st Credit using bits from past letters that CAG members have suggested.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Chalkitup]

Hello All,

Right ........ I am about to send 1st Credit the Account In Dispute letter (no CCA received) and I will add something about telephone harassment on the numbers they are calling.

 

BUT at this point should I be mentioning anything about the following two issues (which I raised in post 1) in the letter and if so what?:-

 

1) Default notice arrived - May 2007 - BUT as pt2537 noted on another thread (which made me check) the notice does not give me fourteen days from date of service to remedy the default ..... only 13 days hence I believe breaking the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561).

 

AND

 

2) Last week I had a call from 1st Credit on my works mobile number .... Neither Citi nor 1st Credit ever had this number. Then a couple of days ago I receive another Notice of Assignment supposedly from Citi ... but not to Chalkitup, home address ..... This one is addressed to Chalkitup, XXXXXXXXXXX Limited, business address.

Now Citi never ever had this Buisness name or address ... mainly because I have only very recently formed the company!!!!

Please can any one advise if any data protection or other laws have been broken here by Citi / 1st Credit (the Notice of Assignment is of poor photocopy standard and I strongly beleive sent by 1st Credit) and what my action should be.

 

Thank you

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[citizenB]

Hi chalkitup, you might find the following link useful in stopping those calls to your mobile.

 

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/150209-getting-calls-your-mobile.html

[Chalkitup]

Hello citizenB,

 

Thank you for the link .... I will try and block 1st Credit.

 

Still in the dark regarding the default notice and business address issues (my last post) ... who would be best to PM to seek advice?

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[babybear39]

If you want legal advice, start a new thread in the legal issues section and link to this thread.

[Tartan Barty]

You said that you recently set up a business? Are you a director? If you are they could search companies house for your name and get the registered office address for free. They may have been phishing but I would guess that's how they got it. As for the mobile number, try putting your name into google and making sure it doesn't appear somewhere you have forgotten about. Also if the first couple of points are true have you got a business website? Do it have your mobile number in the contact section etc?

 

Just some thoughts

[Chalkitup]

Hello babybear39 and Tartan Barty,

Thank you for replies .... Yes my details were on my website (not now!!) ..... but 1st Credit are sending letters to the company contact address (a P.O.Box) not the registered address of company. All I want to know is should I add something in the Account in Dispute (No CCA arrived) letter that I am sending them ... about this address issue as surely they can not send us letters to our buisness addresses? (Can not seem to find anything regarding this in the OFT Debt Collection Guidance notes).

Thanks for the legal issues section advice babybear but I really do not want to start a new thread for just one question.

Regarding the time given on the default notice ... I will leave that for now and bring it up again if they or Citi start legal proceedings.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Tartan Barty]

They may have got your postal address by doing a full search on companies house but is/was your postal address not on your website?? I would guess they just put 2 and 2 together and hoped it equalled 4.

 

I would add something in your letter stating that you have never given them that address and that you won't allow them to hold that info and then insist the business address be removed from their files, as is your right under the DPA. If they ignore your request then report them to the information commissioner.

 

As always print don't sign, send recorded and save the receipt

[Chalkitup]

Hello All,

 

I answered a 1st Credit telephone call today hoping to get yet more evidence recorded against DCA's .... and I was not disappointed.....

 

I will just give a brief outline of what occurred as there are DCA spies about and I want to collect as much evidence as possible over the next few months.

 

Basically DCA phones me ..... I answer but only because I want recorded evidence of their techniques .... DCA ask me if I am Chalkitup .... Yes I am ....... Then DCA says "can you confirm data?" ...... before I have chance to say anything DCA reads out a private address to me and asks "can you confirm this is your address as provided to Citifinancial" !!!!!!!!!!!

 

I pointed out that DCA has broken the Data Protection Act and DCA reply is "that is fine sir" !!!!!!! (Can you believe their arrogance)

 

- TELEPHONE CALL RECORDED - HE HE

 

Onwards and Upwards

Chalkitup

[creditcardmug]

The post office will tell them the address of the PO box, they only need to ask

[Chalkitup]

Hello creditcardmug,

 

Thanks for reply.

 

Yes, I realise that ....... I have done it many times myself.

 

1st Credit have always had a home address for me anyway (the business address is new) .... it is the fact they have read an address out to me (and more) before asking any security questions.

 

 

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Chalkitup]

Hello All,

 

Latest update ....

 

Received 1st Credit Complaints Procedure as requested in my last "Account In Dispute / Formal Complaint" letter to them ..... They write "we acknowledge receipt of your complaint" then the next sentence says "Complainants will be asked to put their complaint in writing"!!!!!

I presume that as they have acknowledged my complaint(s) already that I need not send the same letter again to them.

 

But this is the cracker ....... One of my main complaints is the fact that as already mentioned in this thread 1st Credit have started sending all letters to my works address i.e ... Chalkitup, Private and Confidential, XXXXXX Limited, XXXXXXX, XXXXXX, ....... The original Creditor never had this address and used my private address (which is all ok with me obviously). I made it very very clear to 1st Credit that I want all letters sent to my home address and that making contact with a debtor via his business or his employer with intent to create embarrassment and / or fear of dismissal is against OFT guidelines.

So ..... Caggers .... a little quiz ..... guess to which address of mine 1st Credit sent their Complaints Procedure in response to a complaint partly regarding sending letters to my works address.

 

YES ..... you have it ....... my works address!!!!!!!!! This firm are nearly as funny as the great Tommy Cooper:lol: Just like that ... to the works address ......... No CCA ..... HA HA Just like that .... never mind threaten again.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[babybear39]

1st crud, as a holder of a consumer credit licence, are obliged to supply you with a formal complaints procedure, and as members of the CSA, they have to abide by their guidlines:

 

7. Complaints

a) Each member shall have in place adequate processes to deal with debtors or client complaints, this must contain the following minimum procedure:

 

I. The Management level at which complaints are handled.

 

II. The time frame in which complaints are handled.

 

III. The remedy, if the complainant is not satisfied.

 

IV. Complainants must be advised that one of the remedies is referral of the complaint to the Association where appropriate.

 

b) Members shall deal with complaints speedily, responsively, in a user friendly fashion and at an appropriate management level.

 

c) Member’s complaints procedures must be made available to the complainant or his/her advisor on request.

 

d) If a complaint is made to the Association in relation to dealings with a member of the Association, the Association will deal with the complaint in accordance with the published complaints procedure.

 

The above is taken from the CSA site...

 

CPUTR 2008 binds them to comply or they breach numerous guidlines for which the OFT can enforce via TS.

 

If they fail to supply a formal complaints procedure you can also report them to the OFT

[Chalkitup]

Hello All,

 

Received response to my 1st Credit complaint ...... headed Final Response ..... basically they agree debt is unenforceable at present because CCA request in operation .... but I will be sending them a reply and need a few questions answered please ...... most answers I have found on CAG but these are puzzling me....

 

They say they are sole owner of account and purchased debt (even mention Law of Property Act 1925 ... which means Absolute Assignment I believe) BUT they then say they have to get the agreement and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) info, if I decide to apply for that, from original creditor ..... is this correct .... do they not get everything handed over when they have Absolute Assigment?

 

Statement of Account we should get when CCA a creditor .... am I correct it just means what the balance is and that it does not mean all debits and credits to account since day one ...... that being the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) obviously.

 

They say their client (yet they have already said they are sole owner) states debt still outstanding and remains payable ..... they are unaware of any legalisation that states default notice or data must be removed whilst CCA request in operation ....... The CCA 12+2+30 time limit ran out last August 2007 .... So well over time limits ...... and if agreement were to show up would they need to get it enforced by a court now? Plus on the other hand I have the option of taking it to court to get the default removed because no agreement arrived? Plus I have asked them several times to confirm in writing that no agreement exists ..... do they have to do that?

 

I demanded they removed my telephone numbers from their database ..... their reply .... we have removed them from main screen but we are unable to remove then entirely as this is an audit requirement !! ..... Been all over the Internet trying to find this one ... are they trying to tell me that they are bound by law to keep my telephone numbers ..... please can someone tell me in simple English what they mean and is it correct?

 

Finally ..... yipppeee they have updated their system to use the correct address for me.

 

Sorry about all the questions but I am learning all the time and building up a very comprehensive database which I am already putting to good use helping other people.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup