Rockwell threatogram ouch!

[Patma]

Hi, Today I have received a nasty threatogram from Rockwell after months of silence.

I sent a CCA request last year and received only a fairly ilegible copy of an application form back. I wrote to Rockwell when they started hassling me for payment and pointed out that the account was in dispute due to not having received a vaild credit agreement in repsonse to my request, and for months they've been silent until today.

 

Planning my response, I'd be really grateful to hear if this threatogram is compliant with the OFT guidelines etc. It came by second class post, without even an envelope, just having the sides stuck down.

 

[2Grumpy]

Hi Patma

 

Can you post up the CCA that they supplied, minus the personal details?

 

Meanwhile, you can send a letter off to Rockwell ewminding them that the account is in dispute so they shouldn't be asking for payment ...

 

Take your pick of these two, one very succinct and to the point, one a lot more descriptive of their failings:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1462657.html and http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1466752.html (I prefer the short version)

 

Grumpy

Edited June 27, 2008 by 2Grumpy
links .......... dohh (they used to work)

[Patma]

Thanks very much for that 2Grumpy. I'll get the application form scanned in . All the Best, Patma

[Patma]

P.S just tried the links you sent and they don't seem to be working

[PGH7447]

dont you just love these morons,

 

"this letter fulfils this requirement even if not read by you"

"Pre litigation dept"

 

and then have you heard of CCCS and Payplan

 

And the best till last

 

"This would seriously affect your chances of getting credit"

 

Woo bloody do:eek:

 

and your links dont work 2Grumpy

[rory32]

Have you considered making a complaint to the OFT? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-protection-unfair-trading/147830-complaint-oft-respect-invalid.html

[ODC]

dont you just love these morons,

 

"this letter fulfils this requirement even if not read by you"

"Pre litigation dept"

 

and then have you heard of CCCS and Payplan

 

And the best till last

 

"This would seriously affect your chances of getting credit"

 

Woo bloody do:eek:

 

and your links dont work 2Grumpy

and of course the laughingling entitled Pre-Legal Department.

 

Does that mean something before its legal like PREmature, PREnuptial,

so if its Pre Legal then it musnt be legal yet. Therefore if its not legal yet it must be ILLEGAL:?

[Patma]

Here's the response to my CCA request. They also sent a copy of the current terms and conditions and some other old ones which are barely legible and look as though they've been copied from the back of the application form probably. I can upload those too if necessary.

 

[Patma]

I will make a complaint to the OFT, thanks for the suggestion Rory.

Thanks to everyone for all your input so far. All the best, Patma

[rory32]

If they have just sent you terms and conditions you can send them the following if you wish

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[stikky62]

Subbing

[Patma]

That's a great letter Rory. Thanks for giving me a brilliant response to fire back at them. I will also complain to the OFT. Patma

[Patma]

I have now sent a suitable response to Rockwell, (thanks for all the advise and suggestions everyone) and have sent my complaint to the OFT under

the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUT)

Here's the link again to the draft letter, as supplied by Bankfodder and suggested by Rory and that's exactly what I've sent. I'll keep the thread updated when I get responses.

All the best, Patma

[stikky62]

Yes, please do Patma.

I've only just CCA'd rockers myself so i guess i've got a lot of waiting to do and should expect the same

[Patma]

Good luck with that, Sticky. it's well worth the effort.

[stikky62]

I'm looking forward to it Patma

 

I must say one thing though,,i do like Rockwells address ~ Warrior Square,,,thats kinda kewl.

 

Remember the film?,,,,,

"Warriorrrrrrrrsssss, come out to Playyeeee"

[Patma]

They've only sent me letters with a PO Box number in Southend on Sea. I feel offended now.

Well anyway we'll show them who the real warriors are !

[stikky62]

awwwwwww,,,,lol

 

Lets get 'em

[Patma]

A letter has now come from Rockwell in response to my complaint letter, Complaint to the OFT in respect of invalid CCA agreement - draft

saying:-

 

Dear Patma,

 

We refer to your letter of 2nd July 2008, the contents of which have been noted.

 

Please note that this account has been closed on our books and returned to our clients.Please note your records accordingly and direct any future correpondence to Marks and Spencer Financial Services plc.

 

Whilst writing we can confirm that a copy of your letter together with this response is being sent to our clients for their files, as our clients have previously confirmed that they did provide you with all the information you originally requested.

 

Yours Sincerely,

William Hall

Manager

Litigation and Investigation Department

 

I'll just have to wait and see now what if anything M&S do about it. No response yet to my OFT complaint, but definitely so far so good, I think. Patma

[PGH7447]

Result

[cashins]

[Patma]

Rockwell have not gone away after all.

I've received yet another, even more illegible copy of the application form, together with a note as follows:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Please find enclosed copy documentation in response to your recent query:

Copy of Agreement enclosed

If we do not hear from you within the next 10 working days, further recovery action will continue

With Compliments

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure what to do next. My complaint to the OFT eventually got a response and they sent me a form to fill in, giving permission for my details to be used in any future action against Rockwell.I guess I'll send Rockwell another letter explaining in simple terms that their application form does not comprise a vaild credit card agreement, and therefore the account is still in dispute.

Any suggestions much appreciated, Patma

[cashins]

Had the same drivel with MBNA, unfortunately my local T/S would not take action against them.

 

When they carried on with the threats I told them to 'put up or shut up' ........ well, they didn't do either so now I just tell them to........

 

David

[Patma]

Ithought I'd post my letters from the OFT because I'm not sure whether this means they may be thinking of doing something about Rockwell or not. If it means they are considering it, then I guess people should get their complaints in to help them make their minds up.

Here's the main letter....

 

 

 

 

 

[Patma]

Today I've had a letter from an outfit calling themselves Fenton Cooper, but the address looks suspiciously like Rockwell's.

 

Here it is......

 

and oops they want the money paid to guess who...Rockwell.

 

I'll be sending this gem off to the OFT and a letter off to these people at Warrior Square who seem to be having an identity crisis.