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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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A & L - Enforcable Agreement???


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Hi,

 

I have been avidly reading the forums for some weeks now and have to say how impressed I am by the wealth of knowledge on here.

 

I was wondering if I could steal some of your expertise and get an opinion on my problem.

 

I have just recieved a copy of my Credit Agreement from the Alliance and Leicester for my Credit Card.

 

The document is quite a few pages long but appears to comply with requirements. My question is simple - does it?

 

The doc is as follows.

 

Page 1 is titled "credit agreement" and is a photocopy. It has my name, address, credit limit, PPI requirements, consumer credit agreement statement and a handwritten reference number at the top of the page in a pre-printed box.

Page 2 (is also a photocopy) has a big "customer declaration" blurb and signatures of myself and the A&L bod. Also athough there is a reference number box the same as the page before, there has not been any number written in it. - But no-where is there any reference to the intereste rate.

 

The next pages look like the are a current printout of the T&C's that do contain interest rate etc. I have not signed this document at all.

 

As I understand the Consumer credit act, the credit agreement HAS to contain the interest percentage for it to become enforceable.

 

Is this correct?

 

I will scan the document in the next couple of days but until then, any ideas what I should do - Admit deafeat or carry on fighting?...:?

 

Thanks.

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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If it has no interest rate then it will be unenforceable but it's best to wait until you have scanned and posted them so they can be looked at in detail. Remember to cover over all your personal details before you post.

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Thanks, should be able to get the original on tomorrow. Assuming this is unenforceable, what should I do next? Send them a letter to tell them so whilst quoting the relevent sections of the credit act?

 

Cheers,

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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You can send them a letter informing them that they haven't fulfilled your request and why what they have sent you is unenforceable. It's better to wait until the 12(plus 2) days have passed before you do this, after which time they are in default of your request and you don't have to pay them a penny until they do send you a true copy of the original agreement.

 

People "subscribe" to push your post further up the page for answers. There are some professional "subbers" around here as you can see!:D

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Cheers,,,,I realised I was being a dumb a*s just after I asked about subs...hehe

 

They are already outside of the 12+2 - I sent the request on the 27th.May...

 

I can't find the interest rate or repayment info anywhere on the signed copy - It's in the T&C's that are attached and obviously a different document from the latest revision not the original - The late fee's and stuff are all 12 quid even though the account was taken out in 2002.

 

Is there a template for the letter I need to send?

 

I will load up the original tomorrow though - Just to be sure before tajing them on...

 

Cheers Guys..

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Hi,

 

I have attached scans of the docs - I think. Would you be kind enough to have a look and tell me what you think I should do next. I'm assuming I should use one of the standard letter templates but any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers,

A&L1.jpg

A&L2.jpg

A&L3.jpg

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Sorry guys - Tiny thumbnails...How do I use photobucket???Can't find any instructions...

 

Apologies for being a pain in the @rse...:confused:

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Hi,

 

Sorted it out.

 

Here is the agreement itself pages one and two.

 

The third page is the First page of the T&C's which are just the latest version.

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk44/Multay/AL1.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk44/Multay/AL2.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk44/Multay/AL3.jpg

 

Hopefully this should be clear enough...Any help is greatly appreciated..

 

Thanks,

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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If this is the quality of the document they sent you, it is totally illegible and they must send you a legible copy. The original of this would never be enforceable in court becuase you cannot read it. What they have sent you is an application form - it has no reference to an APR so does not fulfill the requirements for prescribed terms - with a set of Terms and Conditions tagged on that bears no relationship whatsoever to the form. Your application was in 2002 - these Terms and Conditions pertain to agreements after 2004.

Also, it goes from Page 1 to Page 3 then the Terms and Conditions - where are Pages 2 and 4?

 

So there is your letter - they have not fulfilled your request under the CCA 1974 as the document they sent you is 1) illegible 2) an application form without full prescribed terms (don't tell them what is missing - don't do their job for them) 3) is incomplete with pages missing. In addition the Terms and Conditions do not pertain to the alleged agreement and they have not sent you statements as required by the Act. They are now in default of your request and until such times as they send you a true copy of the agreement requested, the alleged debt is in dispute and any enforcement action on their part will be contrary to the CCA 1974, the Administration of Justice Act 1970 Section 40 and OFT guidelines.

 

In other words, they can bog off with this load of cobblers and not return unless they can find a proper agreement!:grin:

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Cheers for that Pinky - Didn't even notice the missing page!!!!

 

Do you think the missing page could detail the APR etc? Mind, I suppose if they had it then they would have sent it...;)

 

I'll put together a letter and post it on here before I send it.

 

They have also got RMA on my case with this so I CCA'd them too but they are still ringing everyday and I've had nothing through the post.

It will be interesting to see if they come up with anything different to A&L.Is it woth telling A&L to call their RMA dogs off???

 

Thanks,

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Hi Again,

 

Here's my letter - What do you think???????

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

 

DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER

 

23/06/08

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On 27th.May, 2008 I wrote to A&L requesting that Customer Service supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

You have not fulfilled my request under the CCA 1974 as the document sent is:

 

1) Illegible

2) Without full prescribed terms.

3) Incomplete with pages missing.

 

In addition the Terms and Conditions do not pertain to the alleged agreement as required by the Act.

You are now in default of your request and until such times as they send you a true copy of the agreement requested, the alleged debt is in dispute and any enforcement action on their part will be contrary to the CCA 1974, the Administration of Justice Act 1970 Section 40 and OFT guidelines.

 

I therefore, request that you also instruct the RMA to cease attempts to claim the alleged debt.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states:

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

Further more, since the prescribed terms do not appear within the agreement you have supplied, the agreement is rendered totally unenforceable, as the prescribed terms must be contained within the agreement and not a separate document, case law confirms this opinion

 

I refer you to the judgment of TUCKEY LJ in the case of Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

 

”[11] Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the "information to be contained in documents embodying regulated

consumer credit agreements". Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by Sch 6, but some does not. Contrasting

the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said:

 

"33 In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which

are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the

minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1."

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states:

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment”

 

 

As it stands, the document supplied by you is not a valid credit agreement nor is it enforceable by any court

 

Firstly, I require all correspondence in writing from here on; any persistent attempts to contact me by phone will be reported to Trading Standards.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you for this debt, a mere copy of the same agreement will not suffice. If you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case.

Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

Yours Faithfully,

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Hi Babybear - I sent the original on the 27th.May to A&L so allowing for the 14 working days so it ran out on the 17th.June - didn't get this replay till last Thursday so they were outside anyway.

But I sent The CCA request to RMA on the 6th.June - I did it to shut them up really - But it hasn't made any difference!!!

 

Cheers,

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Fine letter.

 

Also report them to Trading Standards if they exceed the final calender month to comply using the information in this thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/147392-cca-dcas-unfair-commercial.html

Edited by babybear39
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Corrections - "you are now in default of my request" - and " until such times as you send me" - apart from that - go for it!

 

The CCAs were sent on 27 May so the 12 (plus 2 days) were up on 16 June.

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