re: barclaycard goodwill gesture

[tinkerbell20]

thanks tinkerbell

 

have you heard of them not enclosing a CCA before ?

 

Will send special delivery as ever to the person that sent the letter

 

 

Usually means they haven't got an enforceable one:D

[tinkerbell20]

thanks tinkerbell

 

have you heard of them not enclosing a CCA before ?

 

Will send special delivery as ever to the person that sent the letter

 

 

error

[antz99]

sorry which one do you mean tinkerbell

 

that you dont think they have one

 

or that is was just an error by them

 

thanks

[antz99]

anyone have any advice on how I should proceed ?

[slick132]

Carefully adapt this letter to reflect your own case leaving out anything that is not appropriate.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable. I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that, whilst the request has not been complied with, the default continues.

 

Finally, if you do not have a True copy of the Credit Agreement, you should confirm this in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully

[antz99]

will adapt it .. Thanks Slick as ever giving the best advice around

[antz99]

should I give them a timeframe in which to supply me with the CCA?

[noomill060]

The law already does- 12 days + 2.

[antz99]

thanks Noomill

[slick132]

Hi Antz,

 

Noomill's right but that refers to the time they had to reply to your original request.

 

In your current position, I would change the last para as follows:-

 

Finally, if you do not have a True copy of the Credit Agreement, you should confirm this in writing. If I do not have a full response within 14 days I shall begin further action against you including, but not limited to, the removal of negative or derogatory comments on my credit files relating to this account.

[antz99]

thanks for clearing that one up .. I was thinking that there might have to be a timeframe.

 

Do you recommend sending it special delivery again or can I just get proof of sending from the post office, all these £4.50's are adding up

[slick132]

Antz,

 

Get a Certificate of Posting at the PO for free.

 

[antz99]

Hi slick ..

 

hope all is well with you?

 

I sent the second demand above as we discussed and gave the 14 days which expired on the 18th of Oct which I know has just passed just seeing what in your opinion I can do .

 

I saw your post

 

My understanding now is as follows (per Steven 4064):-

 

If a creditor fails to comply with a CCA request in the prescribed time (12 days), then they cannot take enforcement action until they do comply. For Agree'ts signed before 2006, if they fail to respond witin a further calendar month, then they commit an offence But not a criminal one).

 

 

and seeing if this is now the case?

 

thanks

Edited November 10, 2008 by slick132

[slick132]

Hi Antz,

 

You could send them all manner of letters now, but they'll probably ignore them.

 

My advice is to now wait for their next move as you've put the ball firmly in their court.

[antz99]

Hi slick,

 

The ball has been in BC court for a while nowthey obviously do not have the correct CCA for me and are trying win the battle by seeing if I just to away.

 

But you know we never will

 

Not sure if there is anything I can do at this stage any advice would be very helpful

 

thanks

 

Antz

[slick132]

Hi Antz,

 

If you have any defaults on this a/c, write to them saying:-

 

"In view of your continued failure to comply with my recent requests seeking a valid Credit Agreement, I now require that you:-

 

1) Remove any derogatory markers on my credit files placed in respect of this account.

 

2) Reduce the balance on the account to zero and desist from making any further demands of me in respect of this account.

 

See if that gets their attention.

[antz99]

will do slick, I think the sooner they know that we all mean business the better they are probably used to dealing with people that dont follow letters up... not the guys on CAG haha

 

hope all is well with you

 

best

[antz99]

ooppppss and gals

[antz99]

I will sent that letter off ASAP any time frame to give ? not the B/C follow time frames !!!

 

Is it ok just to include a few lines in this letter, I will obviously get confirmation of delivery and postage.. gosh I am building a nice collection of receipts to B.C Northampton !

[slick132]

......I now require that you:-

I kinda thought that WAS my timeframe.

 

TBH, there's little point in saying I want a reply within 14 days - they just ignore it and there's little you can do about it at the mo.

 

By all means, add to what I suggested to turn it into a proper letter - that was only meant as the core issue.

[antz99]

thanks slick,

 

Going to send a letter off today, I have learnt alot from my time on CAG and now feel far more confident in dealing with these matters and feel more confident to now advise other people.

 

They have gone past all 12 + 30 days deadlines that are set in the letters.

 

what would be my next move after exhausting all the other avenues?

 

antz

[slick132]

Lets see if and how they respond.

 

Deal with it then.

[antz99]

Ok..

 

received a letter today from barclaycard.. I think It is in response to my letter that stated terms and conditions sent to me were not a true copy of my CCA under the consumer credit act.

 

I think this is the case as the letter from the same employee of barclaycard who sent me the terms and conditions and no true copy In SEpt started the letter with

"Firstly please accept my apology for the delay in repsonse"

 

OK

 

This is the only part of the letter that is different the letter and attached documents are the same exact documents that were received in the first letter sent in Sept!

 

the only difference is that the barclaycard conditions credit agreement is now on a poorly photocopied piece of paper that looks like they have photocopied a booklet where as the one I received in Sept was on two seperate pages.

 

I am not sure if this people are clearly not listening to me or just have no clue who and what they are sending information too.

 

The interesting thing is both covering letters state

 

+ A copy of your original barclaycard credit agreement at the time you entered into your agreement

+ A copy of your current Barclaycard agreement

 

 

The letter received in November 2008 says exactly the same again but slightly changes the language from "at the time you entered in your agreement too "At the time you opened your account "

 

Both letters say a Copy of the agreement is included but it is not!

 

The only document included that has any of my details on is a copy of the Barclaycard conditions credit card agreement as it has my name and address on but simply looks like a standard terms and conditions document with no box for signature or anything and obviously the rubbish they put on the covering letter as what is owed next payment date e.t.c

 

So IMHO I CANT SEE HOW THIS COMPLIES WITH THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT !

 

thanks

[antz99]

ARE Barclaycard not also in breach of section 10 of the data protection act by not supplying me with a true copy of my CA.

[slick132]

+ A copy of your original barclaycard credit agreement at the time you entered into your agreement

+ A copy of your current Barclaycard agreement

 

Are you sure this is what was said. It would normally refer to Terms & conditions when saying this.