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    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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RBS, defaults, DCA's and SAR - answers please?


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UPDATE:

 

received reply today from RBS, after sending response to their "solicitor" threat-o-gram, and I'm sure I've posted this same response before but I just can't find it? so please bear with me:

 

Todays RBS response to my CCA was:

"When responding to requests made under section 77, the bank may provide you with a "true copy" of your agreement in accordance with regulation 3(1) of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983. This means that under section 77 there is no obligation for the bank to provide you with a copy of the original agreement bearing your signature. A "true copy" does not need to contain any personal information relating to you as the debtor nor does it need to include a signature box, any signatures or dates of signatures.

 

I trust this explains the banks obligations under section 77 and is of assistance to you"

 

Can this really be true? does this mean they can just send me a piece of paper saying "you owe us money so pay up" and then collect on it?

 

Also, I have already sent the usual "this account is in dispute, do not pass on to DCA, do not process my data under section 21" etc but it's made little difference as they have passed it to moorcroft and "I should now be making arrangements to pay them" On a seperate note, they haven't actually sent me a default notice so can they do this?

 

I'm now HUGELY confused and need some advice?? :confused:

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This is being discussed on the Consumer Credit Agreements thread.

 

Yes, what they say is correct the criteria for satisfying the CCA1974 does allow for certain items to be omitted. However, should they want take action through the court they WOULD have to supply an original copy with all the bells and whistles.

 

All you can do with Moorcroft I think is when they make contact, advise them the account is in dispute and request they pass it back to the OC.

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I do not remember where this bit of info is but Paul Walton finally got the OFT to say this .....a "true copy" must contain

1.The name of the person

2.Their address.

3.A signature box

But it does not have to contain any signatures.

 

Search Pauls thread or....... better still PM him he will confirm what the OFT have told him sometime this year.

 

sparkie

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I do not remember where this bit of info is but Paul Walton finally got the OFT to say this .....a "true copy" must contain

1.The name of the person

2.Their address.

3.A signature box

But it does not have to contain any signatures.

 

Search Pauls thread or....... better still PM him he will confirm what the OFT have told him sometime this year.

 

sparkie

 

oh dear :( does this mean they have an agreement then? or does the information regarding no signature no agreement and going to court etc still apply?

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Not only that, but the original agreement must also be in the correct format, legible , with all the prescribed terms (total credit, APR, repayment method etc) contained within the four corners of the agreement.

 

This is especially important if the agreement was made before April 2007.

 

If a creditor has the original agreement which is enforceable - they should be happy to send you a copy of it (Which you'll need to examine closely - e.g. put up on the forums - with your ID removed etc. for comments and help).

 

If they send you a reconstructed version.. it could indicate they've destroyed the original. This means that if ther're put to strict proof in Court that an orignal exists they may not be able to comply.

Please note that the right to reproduce any part of any post I make on this forum is restricted under copyright law and litigation privilege

 

Please see the following copyright statement

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  • 2 months later...

I sent the RBS a SAR in june last year, after the usual delaying tactics and to-ing and fro-ing regarding what they sent me, I sent them the "I've now had enough of this send me my stuff or it's court time, and BTW this is now an official complaint"

 

I'm confused at what they've replied with, the most recent letter is posted here:

 

Thank you for your patience whilst we have been investigating your recent complaint. I understand that you have concerns about the information supplied by CMS on 16 june 2008 in relation to your DSAR

 

You stated the following:

  • we failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges
  • we have provided no notes or documents relating to any legal action between the bank and yourself
  • we have provided no notes or documents relating to instances of manual intervention
  • we have failed to provide any of the requested information prior to 2001

with regard to a list of transactions and charges, i have ordered bank statements and will send them out as soon as possible. These would not normally be provided as a matter of course to a customer requesting a DSAR.

 

Having carried out a review of the DSAR provided to you by CMS I regret that I cannot see that any personal details have been omitted that you are entitled to under the DSAR.

 

Please note that the banks retention policy means that historical information beyond 6 years may no longer be available. In your case CMS has complied by providing notes from january 2001 but none are available before this date. Please note that automated letters are system generated and originals are not available.

 

Nevertheless it is apparent that you require specific information. In view of this I would be happy to undertake a further review/search if you provide the specific details of the documents that you require.

 

I trust the above clarifies the matter etc etc

then there's the usual guff about how to complain to us, you have the right to refer to the FOS blah blah.

 

My question is - what exactly do they have to provide? is the 6 years explanation correct and if so what are the chances of reclaiming the substantial amount in charges/PPI before then? Also, if they cannot provide info back past 2001 as they claim not to be able to in this letter, then how were they able to reconstruct a credit application (with only some correct information) in answer to a CCA request? Or is it another dodge in the fact that my account has only been with CMS since january 2001 so they have complied as regards the info held by CMS as they actually can't go beyond 2001 with this particular department?

 

I am much confused :confused:

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They have to provide everything which they have in their possession unless you have asked only for some limited information.

 

If it is true that they no longer have your data prior to 6 years then you would be entitled to a certificate of destruction.

You should ask them for information about what data they do and do not have, when it was destroyed, why, according to what policy, the date of the policy.

 

The banks are thoroughly dishonest and I can well imagine that many banks are getting rid of data older than 6 years in order to frustrate repayments when the OFT case is finally lost by them.

 

I think that you shold get very serious with them. I don't know why yo have waited this long before starting to get on to their case.

I certainly think that you should be making an immediate complaint to the IC about this.

 

I think that information on their policy of destroying data older than 6 years must be obtained and verified.

 

Personally I don't believe it.

 

I know for a fact that Abbey retain all of their account data going back as fas as 1926 and I can scarcely imagine that they are especially out of step with the rest of the industry.

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it's not that I've waited a long time, it's taken me this long to get this information out of them - this is the letter that I sent them and it's blatantly obvious (to me) that they haven't complied :

 

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to current accounts, personal loan accounts and/or credit cards.

 

 

Please supply me with a complete list of all transactions and charges relating to my entire history with your organisation, INCLUDING loans and/or credit cards, payment protection insurance and other products. Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associated accounts is acceptable. I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organisation:

 

 

Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same

 

A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL of my Loan Accounts and or credit cards with your organisation.

 

Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

 

Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to me.

 

Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

 

Full hard copy printouts of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations. I will not accept the excuse that historic entries are stored on microfiche. If this statement is made I shall make a full formal complaint to the Information Commissioner.

 

where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 calendar days in which to comply. If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROTECTION

 

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt

 

as you can see, I already asked for evidence of any disposal. I know their methods are designed to make you just give up, and that's exactly what I feel like doing

Edited by spaspeckerthedull
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Have you sent a complaint to the ICO about this at any time?

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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no, I was thinking about it but I've got to the point now where I'm asking myself is it really worth it? it doesn't matter how much we here on CAG take the moral high ground and send off correctly constructed and very cleverly worded letters knowing full well the law thanks to the tireless efforts of dedicated CAGgers who pull the legislation to bits and explain it all in plain english, just to have banks and DCA's carry on regardless as they know full well they will never, ever be brought to task over their actions

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It's hard not to give up i know when presented with a brick wall at every turn it seems. But it only seems that way and creditors who are so desperate to avoid their duties and who lack common decency, in the end, won't win. Less often than not.

 

For a little inspiration i would check out the successes threads. That's what i do when it looks like i am going round in circles.

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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did anything come of this?

post office WON 12/11/06

 

abbey.LBA sent 30/10/06.MCOL claim submitted 8/11/06.allocation questionnaire sent 16/12/06.schedule of charges sent 16/12/06.WON

 

2nd abbey claim SAR sent 3/1/07.WON.complaint letter sent 18/1/08

 

alliance and Leicester.WON

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...

please bear with me, I have searched but can't find anything similar.

 

Been to-ing and fro-ing with westcot and their *ahem* "clients" RBS concerning a CCA request sent to them in July last year, got a letter from westcot today -

 

Dear ********* *******

 

Further to your recent correspondence regarding the above account.

 

Our client has requested you write to the following address and state in your covering letter that this is a section 77/78 request and enclose a payment payable to the client of £1:00

 

Now the last letter they got from me was a "bemused" one in january of this year, their response to which was to enter me into the loop of *cough cough* "solicitors" that they use with all the usual we may send the boys round, and we may issue a CCJ etc. The original CCA was sent, with a postal order, in July of last year, to which I got the usual flannel so I put them on default of my request

 

What gives? should I send another CCA?

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no, if you still have the tracking etc then you don't need to.

 

 

if it were me file it

 

ida x

Please contact a member of the site team if you are offered help off the forum for a a paid or no win no fee service.

 

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Dear Cretins,

 

Thankyou for your letter of xx xx xx in which you state;

"Our client has requested you write to the following address and state in your covering letter that this is a section 77/78 request and enclose a payment payable to the client of £1:00".

 

May I remind you that If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Therefore I expect you to abide by the requirements of the Act and fullfill your duties, otherwise I will have no alternative but to make a complaint to the relevant regulatory authorities,

 

Yours,

Print name do not sign

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Dear Cretins,

 

Thankyou for your letter of xx xx xx in which you state;

"Our client has requested you write to the following address and state in your covering letter that this is a section 77/78 request and enclose a payment payable to the client of £1:00".

 

May I remind you that If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Therefore I expect you to abide by the requirements of the Act and fullfill your duties, otherwise I will have no alternative but to make a complaint to the relevant regulatory authorities,

 

Yours,

Print name do not sign

 

thanks for the input guys - I especially like the "Dear Cretins" bit, but they've already had all the appropriate responses including the above letter, I was just wondering why they are actually requesting me to send another CCA request?

 

it seems rather odd ....................

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  • 2 weeks later...

UPDATE:

 

they've now sent the usual threatening doorstep collection, I've responded with the "I revoke license/armstrong" letter adding that anyone they send will subject to a citizens arrest for breach of above/harassment, and that I will also call the police as I feel threatened etc. - but I don't think it'll be enough?

 

anyone got anything to add?

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I would send them this

 

 

I refer to your threat to send an agent to my home. I have previously told you that all communication in this matter must be in writing.

 

It appears to me that your threats are an attempt to apply psychological pressure, which is a breach of the OFT Guidance on

Debt Collection. In addition, behaviour which creates an intimidating or hostile environment constitutes harassment.

 

Should you ignore the above, you should be aware that I will not speak to any caller, save to ask them to leave at once. If they fail to do so, the police will be called. Any call will also be reported to the appropriate enforcement authorities. Resonable force may be used to eject any persons. Take further note that cctv is in use at these premises and may be used as evdince in any complaint

 

If you do not understand this letter, you should seek professional advice.

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I would send them this

 

 

I refer to your threat to send an agent to my home. I have previously told you that all communication in this matter must be in writing.

 

It appears to me that your threats are an attempt to apply psychological pressure, which is a breach of the OFT Guidance on

Debt Collection. In addition, behaviour which creates an intimidating or hostile environment constitutes harassment.

 

Should you ignore the above, you should be aware that I will not speak to any caller, save to ask them to leave at once. If they fail to do so, the police will be called. Any call will also be reported to the appropriate enforcement authorities. Resonable force may be used to eject any persons. Take further note that cctv is in use at these premises and may be used as evdince in any complaint

 

If you do not understand this letter, you should seek professional advice.

 

they've already had this - will now just have to wait and see what happens although from what I've read here and about they seem to be able to ignore explicit written instruction with impunity - surely there must be something that can be done apart from reporting them to the *ahem* "regulatory bodies" that are nothing more then toothless tigers?

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