RBS, defaults, DCA's and SAR - answers please?

[paulwlton]

UPDATE:

 

sent them a LBA last week, to both CMS and regulatory risk, also sent get stuffed letter to green & co. Letter arrived today from customer care team telford saying investigation instigated and they will reply within 10 days.

 

Is this another stalling tactic? Should I wait, with even more patience, for their "results" or just press ahead with court action to make them hand over the many, many missing documents?

 

opinions appreciated

 

I think Sparkie will advise further on whether to start legal action for non compliance.

 

How are they applying the interest to your accounts?

[spaspeckerthedull]

I think Sparkie will advise further on whether to start legal action for non compliance.

 

How are they applying the interest to your accounts?

 

not a clue about the interest, sorry

 

have had no notification about this from them as it was missing from the SAR, I don't have my own copies of paperwork re this as its from 2001

[paulwlton]

not a clue about the interest, sorry

 

have had no notification about this from them as it was missing from the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), I don't have my own copies of paperwork re this as its from 2001

 

I take it RBS have failed to produce statements for both accounts.

[spaspeckerthedull]

I take it RBS have failed to produce statements for both accounts.

 

they provided 3 statements for the account, 1 dated 30sep 2002 showing outstanding loan and overdraft amount combined, 1 dated 21sep 2007 showing balance forward and 1 dated27may 2008 showing unscheduled credit of £**** transaction date 10apr 2008 and my monthly payment transaction date 30apr 2008

 

as per my previous post, I cannot believe how incomplete the paperwork they have sent me is, its just not on. They've sent me virtually nothing, just a few scrappy bits of "bank speak" and the other bits mentioned in my previous post. I can't do anything with anything they've sent me - if I were to even try to corrolate a spreadsheet to instigate my claim it would just all be guesswork and wildly innaccurate. I simply cannot believe the breathtaking arrogance of these people, how could they possibly hope to get away with this? I can post scans of what they've sent me if it would help but I won't have access to a scanner until later in the week. One interesting figure (I think) that I have spotted in what they sent me is on one of the "bank speak" sheets - it shows the PRINCIPAL amount, along with CHARGE FOR CREDIT (which I presume is the interest) INSURANCE PREMIUM (PPI?) and ARRANGEMENT FEE. I can post figures for the above if helpful?

Edited September 1, 2008 by spaspeckerthedull
typo

[tiglet]

I would hang fire on the legal action - it wouldn't look good if they said they were investigating and you pressed ahead with action anyway.

 

If, however, the 10 days are up and nothing is forthcoming, I would personally instigate proceedings.

[spaspeckerthedull]

Under The New Fraud Act 2006 it is an offence to with hold any document that you are legally entitled to......

 

Sec 3 Of The Act

3 Fraud by failing to disclose information

A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a) dishonestly fails to disclose to another person information which he is under a legal duty to disclose, and

(b) intends, by failing to disclose the information—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

 

sparkie:cool:

 

can I send them a letter quoting this?

[paulwlton]

What was the combined balance in 2002 compared with the statement in April.

 

I find it hard to believe that RBS actualy think they'll get away with not supplying your last six years statements.

[spaspeckerthedull]

What was the combined balance in 2002 compared with the statement in April.

 

I find it hard to believe that RBS actualy think they'll get away with not supplying your last six years statements.

 

combined balance from 2002 compared with april statement?

 

april statement showed corresponding outstanding balance brought forward from 30sep 2002, less something called UNSCEDULED CREDIT and that months payment (made by me on due date) ending with a new outstanding balance

[paulwlton]

combined balance from 2002 compared with april statement?

 

april statement showed corresponding outstanding balance brought forward from 30sep 2002, less something called UNSCEDULED CREDIT and that months payment (made by me on due date) ending with a new outstanding balance

 

Don't understand - what was the balance in 2002 and what is the balance now in pounds and pence?

 

Your post seems to suggest therte's been no interest applied.

[spaspeckerthedull]

Don't understand - what was the balance in 2002 and what is the balance now in pounds and pence?

 

Your post seems to suggest therte's been no interest applied.

 

sorry, I misunderstood

 

OK, the info as supplied is this (I think I see where you're going with this) I've tried to replicate the statement:

 

 

2001

BALANCE FORWARD 28sep 10069.24DR

2002

IBP D/LINE 960.76 16apr 9108.48DR

IBP D/LINE 2.00 17apr 9106.48DR

 

 

 

2002

962.76 30sep 9106.48DR

 

 

 

 

 

then the next:

 

2002

30sep 9106.48DR

 

 

2007

21sep 9106.48DR

 

 

 

then the next:

 

 

 

2007

BALANCE FORWARD 21sep 9106.48DR

2008

IBP UNSCHEDULED CREDIT 5120.68 10apr 3985.80DR

BAC **** MR CURPL 90.00 30apr 3895.80DR

 

 

 

2008

5210.68 27may 3895.80DR

 

that's it for the statements

 

I have a sheet of payments that shows my payments diary since august 2002, it says that it is page 5 of 6 and 6 of 6 and has information both sides. This shows payments made by me into the account and is NOT a statement. It shows an opening balance, my list of payments with dates, then a closing balance which does not corrolate with the UNSCHEDULED CREDIT (by my maths its £45 down/missing) plus it also shows 2 charges on the account, one in 2004 and one in 2005 almost a year later.

 

I hope I've explained myself clearly, apologies if not

[Sparkie1723]

can I send them a letter quoting this?

 

 

Yes I would do just that , and tell them just because they attempt to "hide" behind the weak Data Protection Act, you submit your request under the New Fraud Act 2006 (section then you 3) and if they fail to supply the docs then you will take further action under this section of the Act.

 

 

sparkie

[spaspeckerthedull]

Yes I would do just that , and tell them just because they attempt to "hide" behind the weak Data Protection Act, you submit your request under the New Fraud Act 2006 (section then you 3) and if they fail to supply the docs then you will take further action under this section of the Act.

 

 

sparkie

 

any good letters knocking about with this quoted?

[spaspeckerthedull]

UPDATE:

 

6 days ago received a letter from RBS re my CCA explaining that they are currently unable to furnish a "true copy" of my loan agreement as due to the age of agreement it is held in "a secure offsite facility and will take some time to recover"

 

received 2 letters from RBS yesterday, one apologising for passing account to green & co informing me account now on hold, and the other is a response to the CCA re my loan.

 

The CCA one is interesting, they claim it is a "true copy" of my loan application, but all it is really is an office generated document that has inaccuracies in it - they have my address incorrect in that my name is there but they haven't put the house number, just the road name. Also, they have entered a different figure in the APR box to that which is printed on the original document (I have in my posession an unsigned copy of the agreement from the day I applied for the loan that has "BRANCH COPY" printed on it, I have no idea how I managed to take this away from the bank with me on the day) also, the "true copy" they have sent me is unsigned (of course) and nowhere on the document are any dates at all, which I find strange. Also, the text on my original "BRANCH COPY" does not correspond with the text on the "true copy" they have sent me, there are parts that have been amended in places. They have also got my name incorrect in that on the original "BRANCH COPY" it is made to me in my christian and surnames, the "true copy" has these but for some reason my middle name now appears.

 

seems to me some "editing" has been going on

 

opinions please?

[paulwlton]

UPDATE:

 

6 days ago received a letter from RBS re my CCA explaining that they are currently unable to furnish a "true copy" of my loan agreement as due to the age of agreement it is held in "a secure offsite facility and will take some time to recover"

 

received 2 letters from RBS yesterday, one apologising for passing account to green & co informing me account now on hold, and the other is a response to the CCA re my loan.

 

The CCA one is interesting, they claim it is a "true copy" of my loan application, but all it is really is an office generated document that has inaccuracies in it - they have my address incorrect in that my name is there but they haven't put the house number, just the road name. Also, they have entered a different figure in the APR box to that which is printed on the original document (I have in my posession an unsigned copy of the agreement from the day I applied for the loan that has "BRANCH COPY" printed on it, I have no idea how I managed to take this away from the bank with me on the day) also, the "true copy" they have sent me is unsigned (of course) and nowhere on the document are any dates at all, which I find strange. Also, the text on my original "BRANCH COPY" does not correspond with the text on the "true copy" they have sent me, there are parts that have been amended in places. They have also got my name incorrect in that on the original "BRANCH COPY" it is made to me in my christian and surnames, the "true copy" has these but for some reason my middle name now appears.

 

seems to me some "editing" has been going on

 

opinions please?

 

The agreement they've forwarded has been recreated. Could you scan and post both copies or email them me.

 

Have you read the Guardian articles on RBSs creative exploits?

[spaspeckerthedull]

Thanks for the response - I don't have access to a scanner until tomorrow, I'll do it then.

 

I also need to know what happens now that they are in breach of my original SAR and also in breach of the LBA I sent them, the response to the LBA is that they are investigating my complaint and have given themselves 8weeks to do so?!? how many more extensions are they going to give themselves? realistically how much longer is it going to take them to comply with my SAR to allow me to compile charges which, incidentally, will be quite a bit but are from around 1998 - 1999? are they dragging their heels because they know this?

[tiglet]

When the LBA time limit expires, I would personally start legal proceedings - eight weeks is how long they have to investigate a complaint before giving their final response, not how long they can allow themselves to respond to a SAR.

[spaspeckerthedull]

fair enough, need to be very clear on this then. What's the first thing I should be doing? do I tell them to expect proceedings in due course or just hit them with it

[paulwlton]

fair enough, need to be very clear on this then. What's the first thing I should be doing? do I tell them to expect proceedings in due course or just hit them with it

 

You hit them - you've already forwarded "expect proceedings in due course" - the LBA.

[spaspeckerthedull]

UPDATE:

 

letter received today from RBS concerning my CCA request, their response has left me confused:

 

When responding to requests made under section 77 the bank may provide you with a "true copy" of your agreement in accordance with regulation 3(1) of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983. This means that under section 77 there is no obligation for the bank to provide you with a copy of the original agreement bearing your signature. A "true copy" does not need to contain any personal information relating to you as the debtor nor does it need to include a signature box, any signatures or dates of signature

 

am I reading this right? to me this reads that they can just make up any old document, saying "you owe us xxxthousand pounds, forget the signature matey so just pay up cos we say you owe us"

 

surely this can't be right?

 

opinions please?

[debbbbsy]

6 days ago received a letter from RBS re my CCA explaining that they are currently unable to furnish a "true copy" of my loan agreement as due to the age of agreement it is held in "a secure offsite facility and will take some time to recover"

 

So, the RBS have a secret bunker somewhere, is this were they'll hide when the **** hits the fan, perhaps Sir Fred is already there.

 

The truth is more simple, but they won't admit it, they don't have your original agreement, in all probability it was destroyed years ago in one of there cost cutting exercises.

I think they can recreate your agreement, but without your signature they can't enforce it in court.If I'm wrong someone will correct me.

Debs

[Sparkie1723]

So, the RBS have a secret bunker somewhere, is this were they'll hide when the **** hits the fan, perhaps Sir Fred is already there.

 

The truth is more simple, but they won't admit it, they don't have your original agreement, in all probability it was destroyed years ago in one of there cost cutting exercises.

I think they can recreate your agreement, but without your signature they can't enforce it in court.If I'm wrong someone will correct me.

Debs

 

 

HI Debbbbsy and SPAS.

 

That is correct , but the "copy" should have your name and address on it....how can say its a true copy of YOUR agreement if it hasn't got your name on it????It could be a copy of mine, but then I haven't got one either:grin::grin: and never had one.

 

Paul Walton will love this.

 

sparkie

 

sparkie

[paulwlton]

RBS have been recreating agreements for a while now.

 

[paulwlton]

HI Debbbbsy and SPAS.

 

That is correct , but the "copy" should have your name and address on it....how can say its a true copy of YOUR agreement if it hasn't got your name on it????It could be a copy of mine, but then I haven't got one either:grin::grin: and never had one.

 

Paul Walton will love this.

 

sparkie

 

sparkie

 

Correct Sparkie - the"true copy" MUST include the debtor's name and address as per the 1983 regs.

[tinkerbell20]

the plot thickens!

[paulwlton]

the plot thickens!

 

Relevant.

 

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