Welcome Finance Investigation

[Guest suziedarkness]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been reading this post with great interest as I too have big issues with Welcome and have just posted a thread on General Debt Issues hoping to get some advice.

 

Would all this that you have been mentioning have any effect on the enforceability of the agreement?

 

Suzie

[postggj]

if the insurance policies added to the loan are a con and people conned into them, which as a fact is true

 

it puts the whole agreement and repayments into question

 

this investigation has taken a lot of time and effort.

it is nearly at an end on exposing the truth

 

so please bare with us at the moment as its being updated every day

[Guest suziedarkness]

You have done a great job finding out what you have sofar, I would not know where to start which is why this forum is such a godsend.

 

I will keep watching!

 

suzie

[postggj]

me and dipply are like a dog with a bone with welcome finance

believe me

 

we are close to a resault

[pears23]

hi there, sorry not been online for a while. Can I ask how I can post the leaflet for all to see? I can scan the leaflet onto my pc but not sure how to attach to the thread! can you advise please? cheers

[postggj]

hi pears

 

by all means please post

 

google photo bucket its free to use and post

[pears23]

Hi pears23, thankyou, helpful info as it seems that agreements up to around 2005 stated clearly Norwich Union on the agreements as the insurer - after that the wording changed to "a reputable insurer". My older agreement (2003) listed Norwich Union, my partners in 2006 was the vague reputable insurer. Can you tell me if this was just on the back of the agreement or did you have an actual 'key facts' document? I have read you are supposed to get these but have no idea when this started!

 

Hey mcfadwmc - firstly, hats off to you for taking them on. I take it you had one of those judges that would believe any crap put in front of them? I am so sorry you lost, from what I read it was a ridiculous decision. Fergal is right, the OFT and the FOS need to pull the finger out.

 

I can't believe there aren't enough complaints logged not to arouse any suspicions so far. I know I am due a refund but I would much rather see them properly investigated and see the truth come out.

 

sorry just realsied my post did not quote you and so everyone probably thought HUH? anyway here goes! I hope it worked!

pears23 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

[postggj]

hi pears

 

thanks for that

my eye sight needs glasses

can you post the relevent bits

 

i notices they mention norwich union as the insurer

 

strange that as norwich union have never herd of you

 

does it mention commission payments or insurance tax

[pears23]

interestingly, this is a policy summary document and the firdt line states "this is a summary of the policy and does not contain the full terms and conditions of the cover, which can be found in the PPI policy document. It is important that you read the policy document carefully when you receive it."

 

WHAT b****y policy documnet - I was never sent one!!!!!!!! Surely that contravenes some law????

 

in answer to your questions, no mention of commission paymenst or insurance tax!

[postggj]

no poilcy document, no surprise there

 

no mention on commission payments or insurance tax

 

like i said

 

myself and dipply have allways this insurance racket is a con, all done in house for max profit

no underwriters

 

like i said gotcha

 

any body else with welcome insurance policies, or should i say all welcome clients

 

please post details of the insurance policies etc, if any

and if you have never received any documents

 

now need to think how to progress eith this

[Dipply75]

Have attempted to update my own thread (lazy!) but here is what I have paperwork and figure wise to go on:

 

From what I understand, IPT is payable on any taxable insurance premium. The standard tax is 5%, which should apply to these PPI policies. One of the main questions is...what counts as taxable premium?

 

The HMRC states: “Premium” means all payments receivable under the contract of insurance by an insurer. (For this purpose payments under the contract of insurance received on an insurer’s behalf by third parties are treated as received by the insurer.) In particular, this includes any payments in connection with:

• the risk insured;
  
• cost of administration (that is, administrative costs which are charged to the policyholder);
  
• commission (paid to or retained by brokers or other intermediaries);
  
• tax (premiums are tax inclusive for IPT purposes);
  
• interest (where credit arrangements allow for payment in instalments, whether or not the payment for this facility is called interest).
  

(However, credit charges, whether or not the payment for this facility is called interest, are not treated as part of the premium where the charge is made under a separate contract, for example, a contract regulated by the Consumer Credit Act.)

 

OK - so the IPT is clearly 5% of the premium you pay. But should it also be 5% of the interest you are charged on that premium? It does mention the charges being on a separate contract, say a CCA - but note the exclusion words, separate contract.

 

This is where I need help! My OH's agreement has the premium listed in with the other borrowing, all the interest payable is lumped together, the monthly payments are lumped together. There is nothing listed seperately for the PPI premium, and certainly no separate contract in any shape or form.

 

Now bear with me!!! Even if the interest charges are not taxable - the premium is. They sent us their breakdown of prices for the loan and here is what it says:

 

PPI Price inc IPT - £1094.67

Interest - £ 710.37

Total Payable - £1805.04

IPT incurred - £43.81 - That just is not 5%!

 

And the bedtime reading that explains about the idea of separate contracts and how they apply:

Homeserve v HMRC | OUT-LAW.COM

 

anyone with any expertise on this stuff, help!

[Dipply75]

Hi postggj, animal lover,

 

You will never believe what I found (while looking for an old RBS agreement!).....one of Welcome's own 'policy schedules' from 2004 that lists Norwich Union as the insurer and also gives a policy number.

 

This policy number is exactly the same as another persons policy schedule from 2005 - so I think that if Welcome have any kind of policy in existence it has been a 'block policy'. Can't find much on this but I think this is when a company, broker etc buys a specific policy, but buys X number of 'units' to sell?

 

They then sell as much as poss and settle up with the Insurer at the end of the year - how many were sold, how much etc.

 

So, I am dying to know, does anyone else have any insurance docs from Welcome that state a policy number in the T&C's of 01LASU424?

[postggj]

the illicit web thickens

[Guest suziedarkness]

Hi Dipply,

 

Yes I too have ppi docs with those numbers!!!!! Wonder if its significant.

 

Postggj, sorry to but in on this but I have tried grabbing your attention on my thread as you were going to help me out with a letter.

 

Suzie

[bobbyh99]

I too have this policy number on some policy documents.

At the front of the Policy Schedule I have a policy number beginning with "WMC11...../1" and then in the small print for the PPI there is a policy number 01LASU424 and in the small print for the Medicare 24 there is a policy number 02PA100.

 

WF arrange the policy, Norwich Union underwrite the policy and the policy is administered by Direct Group.

 

BobbyH

[animal_lover]

Received another letter from GDR, they obviously don't understand what a dispute is.

 

The letter says that if i wish to repay this debt with an offer of a repayment proposal telephone blah blah within 14 days of this letter.

 

Failure to contact us will result in your account being passed to our solicitors who will instigate immediate legal action and demand full costs plus interest on the above debt.

 

Do they never give up?

 

AL

[animal_lover]

Recieved letter from Welcome today just to say it's still under investigation and hope to resolve it in due course.

 

AL

[postggj]

hi dipply and friends

 

i am advising on this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/163222-help-defence-cohens-court.html?highlight=postggj

 

just posted a cpr request to get the intel on this ppi

 

will keep you updated on developments

 

dipply, your comments were great and have used them, take a look and see if i can include any thing else. this is a golden oppertunity

[Dipply75]

Hi postggj, apologies, my keyboard died! Have only been able to point and click for days now lol so have been reading but unable to write. I was completely lost being unable to use my pooter!

 

Have read through that thread and I agree it is a prime opportunity, not only to help Prudence chase them away but to corner them into some answers. I think you have pretty much covered all. The main facts we need to pin down are - actual cost of the policy(ie amount paid to insurer), commission if any, how much tax was paid and who paid it.

 

If they have paid tax on the policy cost only (not inc commission) - got them

The commission is also taxable @ 5%.

 

Will add to that thread later today.

 

Hey animal lover, you seem to get all the idiots. Is that another complaint letter then? Sigh. I wonder how they are getting on with their 'investigation', more like wondering what the hell to reply with!

[Dipply75]

Just another thought before I go. Anyone who received policy documentation through received a 'policy' listing all sorts of T&C's etc (like Pear's one) but all on Welcome paper.

 

If they HAVE bought anything from Norwich Union, even a 'block' policy, I would be very interested to see what T&C's etc are in the Norwich Union documentation....just to see if the Welcome headed paperwork sent out is exactly the same? (ie must b claiming jobseekers to claim???)

 

How about getting a mass complaint organised to Norwich Union against Welcome?

Edited December 11, 2008 by Dipply75
had another thought

[animal_lover]

Hey animal lover, you seem to get all the idiots. Is that another complaint letter then? Sigh. I wonder how they are getting on with their 'investigation', more like wondering what the hell to reply with!

 

Hi Dipply,

 

I've sent another letter to GDR explaining yet again that the account is in dispute and that both the ICO and FOS (Although thinking about it i think i've put FSA on the letter) are still dealing with it, I've also put as postggj suggested a note about the "investigation" Welcome are doing and that i'm still awaiting a reply. I also included a copy of the letter Welcome sent as proof. So i'll see what they say to that. if they carryon i think the next step will be a complaint.

 

All the questions in your post ie the actual amount of policy etc are what i'm waiting a reply for so hopefully we will find out soon either from Welcome or via complaint to OFT or someone.

 

I was just thinking should I send a copy of the letter to FOS and maybe copies of all the letters i've sent to GDR to them aswell?

 

I think that a mass complaint is a very good idea - there would definately be alot of people willing to do that I feel.

 

AL

[animal_lover]

Any thoughts on my last post above.

 

Thanks

 

AL

[animal_lover]

Finally got CAB to look at my Credit Agreement and it is unenforceable .

 

They have contacted Trading Standards for it to be confirmed.

 

AL

[pinknico]

Did they say why it was unenforceble? And did you go into the CAB or send it to them?

[animal_lover]

I took it into my local CAB.

 

It's unenforceable as it's not set out properly ie: doesn't include everything it's supposed to and it's not double signed it only has my signature plus at the top it says pre contract information in small letters.

 

I know they don't have the original as they told me they have sent everything they have on me in my S.A.R.

 

Do i need to contact FOS & ICO as they are dealing with the account to let them know or should i wait till Trading Standards have looked at it

 

Thanks

 

AL