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    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
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Morgan Stanley/Goldfish


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I CCA'd these lot earlier in the month and they have replied with a CCA.

 

I cannot read any of the terms on the last 2 pages.

 

Any Advice??

goldfish.pdf

Edited by manc1976
forgot attachment

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye :D

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Hmmm! this is very poor. Do you know if they are claiming which is the back and which is the front.

If the page with the terms on is the back then it seems it does have the prescribed terms as specified under the CCA 1974. However as it is all illegible this makes it unenforceable.

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Hmmm! this is very poor. Do you know if they are claiming which is the back and which is the front.

If the page with the terms on is the back then it seems it does have the prescribed terms as specified under the CCA 1974. However as it is all illegible this makes it unenforceable.

 

The last 2 pages in the attachment was on both sides of 1 page.

 

I couldn't read any of it.

 

What should I write back and say?

 

Thanks

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye :D

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Well, apart from the last 2 pages, all the rest are from Barclays, who only recently took over the Morgan Stanley/Goldfish accounts. Therefore most of the docs could not relate to your account.

The last two pages seem to be from Morgan Stanley but are illegible and therefore unenforceable. The last page looks like it is a 'cut & paste' job with information from other documents. What is interesting is that someone has certified that these pages are true copies of the original document. If the case ever came to court, they would have to produce the original and can't now say they didn't have one.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tomorrow, I am sending the following letter (courtesy of Rory) to Goldfish to see if they do indeed have a legible copy.

 

Thank you for responding to my previous letter.

 

Having taken the time to look over the documents supplied in response to my statutory request made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I have the following concerns.

 

The document entitled “credit card agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974” which appears to bear my signature fails to comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557). In particular section 2 of the Regulations.

 

As you will be no doubt aware, the Copy Document Regulations requires that documents are easily legible and clearly the terms of the agreement are not easily legible, infact far from it. Many of the terms are blurred and cannot be interpreted and I am further unable to make out the prescribed terms as required by schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). After taking advice on this matter, I am of the belief that this agreement that you have presented before me, as it stands would be unenforceable even by court order. Therefore, I require that you provide me a clearly legible copy of the agreement, where all the terms are clearly legible

Should you not be able to supply a clearly legible copy containing the necessary prescribed terms, I would suggest that you give consideration to canceling this account and reducing the balance to zero. Of course the alternative would be to seek a declaration of my rights under Section 142(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I am advised that with the documents that you have supplied there would be an extremely good prospect of success with such a declaration. However, I am mindful of additional costs that such action could incur both on my part and on yours so I trust you will give consideration to this request

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Will keep you updated.

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye :D

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Goldfish are cutting/pasting all the time, i have 2 CCA replies from them, they seem to think it's acceptable to do this, none of it would stand up in court. in a fair country this would be viewed as fraud, i.e. a criminal offence.

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have had the exact same rubbish from them, and have decided to ignore them completly, i am not paying them, and will let matters take their course.

 

They won't listen to reason, and are even at odds with trading standards on this, by their own admission

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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Yep MOH has had exactly the same. This does not constitute a properly executed credit agreement with the prescribed terms. They are bluffing and hoping you won't query it further. Push 'em some more.

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I agree with Rhia. They are bluffing as they will have to produce the original if the case went to court. They have stated twice now that they have supplied a copy of the original, so they can be asked to produce that original under the court's procedure rules.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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  • 2 months later...
Both of mine have been bought by cabot, i CCAd them app. 4 months ago, still nothing.

 

I have a Liverpool Victoria/Goldfish/Barclays with Cabot and have not heard anything for 4 months!!!!

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

I sent a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Goldfish for 3 accounts that my wife holds with them and got this strange reply from them today:

 

goldfish_sar1.jpg

 

What a load of BULL !!!!!

 

Is there any suitable letter that tells them to just get on with it, as i do not need to supply the information requested.

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye :D

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Well, apart from the last 2 pages, all the rest are from Barclays, who only recently took over the Morgan Stanley/Goldfish accounts. Therefore most of the docs could not relate to your account.

 

The last two pages seem to be from Morgan Stanley but are illegible and therefore unenforceable. The last page looks like it is a 'cut & paste' job with information from other documents. What is interesting is that someone has certified that these pages are true copies of the original document. If the case ever came to court, they would have to produce the original and can't now say they didn't have one.

 

Docman,

 

Only the first page has been 'certified' as a true copy of the original document. This could be significant because the terms and conditions are on the page that has not been certified. Maybe I'm just being picky.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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Fred

 

You are right to be 'picky' because it is previsely these 'picks' that unravel the cases brought by banks & DCAs. Only pages 5 & 6 of the document (the application forms) look original. The rest are clearly more recent documents. Creditors try yo claim that current terms are acceptable. maybe for S78 requests but not when cases get to court. The case law is quite clear on the point .

 

 

As TUCKEY LJ said in Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd

 

 

"33 In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them.

 

 

I repeat in case the banks didn't get the point -

 

"the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. "

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Manc,

 

SOorry I forgot to comment on your SAR letter - total bovine excrement!

 

If Goldfish/Barclays etc are happy to write to you at your address, then their request is totally over the top. I suggest you write back and tell them you consider they are in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 and that you will report them to the Information Commissioner if they do not acceed to your lawful request within the next 7 days.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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I mant Goldfish's response, not your letter of course!

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Got a similar letter from Goldfish, manc1976, some months ago. Wrote & told them 3 times to supply info. as requested as they have all the ID they need re. my address etc. as they have been sending me statements regularly. This would be a breach of the DPA if they now query my existence at this address!

 

Got absolutely nowhere so now reported to ICO & I'm STILL waiting!!

 

Haven't really got time or funds at the moment to take it thro' the courts but will do in due course if ICO don't pull their fingers out. What are they there for?! :mad:

 

Just so you know what to expect....Sigh...

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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I eventually got Goldfish to eventually comply after sending 3 letters and a long converstion over the phone,they eventually sent me info apart from a Notice of assignment.

 

I have rang them over the last few days to get them to send a copy of NOA, their reply we have fully complied with your SAR and that the NOA comes from the DCA( which is incorrect).

 

What I have found over the last few days is their behaviour has been very strange from hanging up to pretending they can not here me when I asked questions they could not answer.

US President Barack Obama referred to Ugland House as the biggest building in the world or the biggest tax SCA* in the world.

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I CCA'd Goldfish who took over Liverpool Victoria credit card and who are now being taken over by Barclays. They have sent me what you have but I now have this agreement (copy they say ) of the 'please call 0800 389 etc' and the reverse of the page headed 'Credit card agreement regulated by barclays bank plc etc.' The original letter, which I have, that they sent me was similar content but the headings have been changed from Liverpool Victoria to Goldfish on the front and regulated by Goldfish to regulated by Barclays Bank.

This cannot be right surely.

They have sent me a copy of the application for the Liverpool Victoria c/c which has my signature. This has been certified by Customer Liaison on behalf of Goldfish !

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I have just posted a reply to someone (you hopefully) re. correspondence that i have today received from Goldfish having CCA'd them. They have substituted bank names both sides of the 'please call 0800 etc' letter, Goldfish for Liverpool Victoria on the front and Barclays bank for Goldfish bank on the back ! I owe them plenty and have not paid them for two months and have complained bitterly re. numerous phonre calls and they have agreed to call off the telephone dogs for four weeks.

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