Link Financial - Response to request for CCA

[Bada Bing]

Hello everyone,

Having found this forum I sent a request to Link Financial for a CCA and received the following response.

 

"You have recently made a request under Section 77/78 for copies of various documents.

 

"As you are aware LINK FINANCIAL purchased your debt from HSBOS PLC on 29 June 2005 and as such we do not always hold this documentation. We have requested a copy of the agreement and the most recent terms and conditions your account was operated under from HSBOS PLC and look forward to sending this to you in the near future, however please be advised that this can take up to 30 days to provide.

 

No administration charge has been applied to your account at this time and therefore any payment made with your request has been applied to reduce your outstanding debt. However where cost is incurred by Link for the provision of any statements by the Vendor we will pass these charges on to you.

 

Your account has been put on hold for the next 14 days with further details as requested above."

 

I should be very grateful if anyone could help with the following questions I have regarding the above.

 

• Am I correct in thinking that they have to provide the CCA within less than the 30 days they say it may take?
   
  
• Can they charge me extra for providing a copy of an agreement? I thought the £1 I sent them was all I had to pay?
   
  
• They say they own the debt so surely it is them that have to prove I owe the money to them is it not?
   
  
• They say they await "further details requetsted above" but they haven't asked for anything!
  

Many thanks.

[rory32]

Am I correct in thinking that they have to provide the CCA within less than the 30 days they say it may take?

 

They can take as long as they like but after 12 working days they can't enforce the account if they haven't supplied a complying copy of the agreement.

Can they charge me extra for providing a copy of an agreement?

No. £1 is the maximum statutory fee.

They say they own the debt so surely it is them that have to prove I owe the money to them is it not?

 

Yes. The onus is entirely on them to prove any debt exists and that they have a rigt to collect.

They say they await "further details requetsted above" but they haven't asked for anything!

What they mean by further details as above is the a refering to how long they state it will take and the administrative fee, etc.

[Bada Bing]

Thanks for the quick response and clearing up my questions. I shall see what they come up with next!

 

Thanks again.

[Bada Bing]

I have today received a copy of an application form form LINK. As this is not a copy of an agreement am I correct in thinking I should write to them pointing this out and that they are still in default?

 

Thanks for any help you can give.

[Bada Bing]

I've cobbled together a reply based on a letter I found here now so no help needed for now. Will wait and see what happens now.

[Bada Bing]

I received the following letter today from Link Financial in response to my letter telling them that the copy of an application form they sent me did not satify my CCA request.

 

Dear..... 27 June 2008

 

FINAL RESPONSE

 

Thank you for your recent complaint.

 

Having investigated fully the contents of your complaint we see that we have not breached any of the guidelines that govern our organisation and as such will not be taking any further action. A copy of the Compalints Review Conclusion Form has been enclosed for your records. (This just said that I told them that "The act demand that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account". They replied by stating that the application form they sent is a true copy of my agreement as regulated by the act, it isn't it's an application form with no rates of interest or other required terms and condions on it)

 

If you are dissatisfied by our response you can contact the Credit Services Association, Wingrove House, 2nd floor East, 183 Marsh Wall, Ponteland Road, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, NE5 3DP or within 6 months of the date of this letter the Financial Ombudsman Service. You may also choose to contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau or seek independent legal advice.

 

If we have not heard from you within 8 weeks of the date of this letter, we will close our file accordingly.

 

Yours sincerely

 

(illegible sig)

 

For and on behalf of Link Financial

 

 

Does this mean that they will close the case on the claim they have on me or just my complaint?

 

Has anyone else received a response like this from LINK?

 

 

Graetful for any help please.

 

Thanks.

[rory32]

Does this mean that they will close the case on the claim they have on me or just my complaint?

 

Just your complaint.

[Bada Bing]

That's what I thought Rory. So what should I do know? Should I write back to them and tell them that I don't accept what they've said?

[ODC]

No. You should now make a formal complaint to the FOS who will charge Link £400 for the priveliege of dealing with your complaint. If you scan the application form they sent (minus personal details) and put it up here we can check to see if it is enforcable

[rory32]

Also if Link try and persue you for the account you can complain to the OFT too (click on my links for more information).

[Bada Bing]

Thanks folks great help as usual! I will try and post up as legible copy of what LINK sent me as I can, but it doesn't scan very well. It has no details of any terms and conditions for the account, nor any rates etc on it so from things I have read elsewhere on here I took it to be invalid as a CCA?

 

I fully expect LINK to still pursue me even though they heven't complied to my CCA request. As they have said that they will close my complaint file if they don't hear from me in 8 weeks, should I not respond to them in some way so that they can't do that?

 

If/when they do contact me again asking for the money they say I owe then I take it I should resond by reminding them that my CCA request is still outstanding?

 

Sorry for more questions but I just want to be sure I am doing things the correct way!

[ScarletPimpernel]

I note that Link's final response makes reference to the Credit services Association. Don't bother wasting a stamp; their code of practice is wholly without merit.

 

Except...

 

Except, and I am ready to be corrected, the sparkly new Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 says:

 

5.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either paragraph (2) or paragraph (3).

(2) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph—

(a) if it contains false information and is therefore untruthful in relation to any of the matters in paragraph (4) or if it or its overall presentation in any way deceives or is likely to deceive the average consumer in relation to any of the matters in that paragraph, even if the information is factually correct; and

(b) it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

(3) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph if—

(a) it concerns any marketing of a product (including comparative advertising) which creates confusion with any products, trade marks, trade names or other distinguishing marks of a competitor; or

(b) it concerns any failure by a trader to comply with a commitment contained in a code of conduct which the trader has undertaken to comply with, if—

(i) the trader indicates in a commercial practice that he is bound by that code of conduct, and

(ii) the commitment is firm and capable of being verified and is not aspirational,

and it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise, taking account of its factual context and of all its features and circumstances.

 

Now, I think it extremely unlikely that the CSA will admit that Link, or indeed anyone else, has broken their risible code of practice (most of which is lifted from the OFT Guidance anyway). However, as I read it, the decision isn't necessarily for the CSA to make, so it may be worth raising the issue with TS/FOS.

 

Could the CSA be of some use, finally, if only to hoist DCAs on their own petards?

 

I have yet to see the usual pompous outpouring on the subject of the CPUTR from Kurt Obermaier, grand poobah of the CSA - he usually favours the world with his opinion fairly quickly. Perhaps I need a new copy of Kredit Heute.

 

Still, Herr Obermaier always flies the DCA flag high and keeps their ranks tightly closed. CSA marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt, eh Kurt?

[Bada Bing]

 

Not sure if this is readable but the original isn't that clear so the scan isn't any improvement!

 

Thanks.

[Bada Bing]

HSBOSLINK appn.pdf

 

I've managed to get the file as a pdf which is much bigger so a bit easier to read. Graetful for your thoughts on the validity of this document please.

 

Thanks.

[Bada Bing]

I'd be very grateful for views on the application form I received from LINK please. Although it does Consumer Credit Agreement at the bottom, there are none of the prescribed terms which I understand are supposed to be in a proper agreement? Grateful for any guidance here please.

 

Many thanks.

[robcag]

Hi BB

 

I'm not one of the experts on here but here's my take on what you've received from our friends at Link.

 

First of all they may not have complied with your CCA request because if the document you have received is as bad as what we can see from your scan, it is not easily legible and is therefore unacceptable, and that in itself would make it unenforceable.

 

Secondly I believe you should have been sent a copy of your cancellation rights as I can make out that it says the agreement is cancellable.

 

Thirdly, from what I can make out on the scan, unless I have missed them, there are no prescribed terms showing anywhere, so that would make the 'agreement' totally unenforceable.

 

Good luck with this

Rob

[ScarletPimpernel]

Hi BB

 

 

First of all they may not have complied with your CCA request because if the document you have received is as bad as what we can see from your scan, it is not easily legible and is therefore unacceptable, and that in itself would make it unenforceable.

 

Secondly I believe you should have been sent a copy of your cancellation rights as I can make out that it says the agreement is cancellable.

 

Thirdly, from what I can make out on the scan, unless I have missed them, there are no prescribed terms showing anywhere, so that would make the 'agreement' totally unenforceable.

 

 

All of the above, and they sent the most recent terms and conditions, and not those extant at the time the agreement was executed, which are the ones required by the Act.

[42man]

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.

 

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the 26th July 2007.

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

 

 

You had until (date here) to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else. I would also like to note that as from the (12+2 working days + 30 calendar days) it becomes a criminal offence.

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Also the document you have supplied is in the most part illegible. To which I bring your attention section - Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.

(3) Any such footnote shall not be treated as part of any Form prescribed by these Regulations and may be reproduced

in addition to any such Form.

(4) Where any such footnote requires any words to be omitted, those words shall be omitted or deleted.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

[Bada Bing]

Thanks very much folks you have confirmed what I thought. Thanks too 42nd for the info on how to reply, it is very much appreciated.

 

BB

[Bada Bing]

Hi all,

I sent a letter to LINK with pretty much the text provided by 42nd Man above. Today I recived the following reply.

 

Dear ****

I refer to your notice under the Data Protection Act 1998. Your HSBOS plc Credit Card accound was assigned to Link Financial in June 2005. The resonsibility to manage the information place with the Credit Reference Agencies by HSBOS plc was also passed at the time of purchase. However please be aware as this account defaulted more than 6 years ago it is no longer being reported to the Credit Reference Agencies. Therefore we do not believe we are in breach of our responsibilities inder the Act with regards to your details.

J Pearcey

 

What do you think of this reply? They have ignored the part about being in default of my request and that the application form they sent was not my CCA.

 

Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

Thanks.

[Bada Bing]

Hi folks.

 

Does anyone have any advice they can give me on how to respond to the above please?

 

Many thanks.

 

BB

[Bada Bing]

Is there anyone here that could possibly give me some gudance as to how I should reply to the letter from Link I received please?

 

Thanks.

 

BB

[winny14]

link are a pain in the a*** for delaying tactics...i'm also battling with them at the moment so check out my threads for the story so far and the responses i've sent...all complied thanks to the experts on here .

at this stage it maybe worth you reporting them for not coming up with your CCA request..

dont let them intimidate you and remember no CCA no enfrorcable debt.

there are plenty on here dealing with link so if you type in the search box on the blue bar you will learn how they work ....

[berrylover]

Have they made any contact with you since that last letter re payment? If not then sit back and relax. If so what have they said?

[Bada Bing]

Thanks guys. No contact since that letter. I was considering just waiting to see what they come up with next.