Fair Parking?

[mfpa]

Anybody looked into the service offered by Fair-Parking dot co dot uk?

 

You register your car at their address, so that those chasing up tickets can't find your address from DVLA.

 

On first reading, it strikes me the advice on that website is inappropriate in respect of local authority tickets but could be helpful in the case of private parking outfits.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited May 9, 2008 by mfpa
link to commercial site removed.

[Fair-Parking]

Hi, this is Fair-Parking. First we must say that it can sometimes be difficult for us to satisfy the requirements of posting on this or any other forum, due to the commercial nature of our service. However when somebody does pose an important question, we guess that nobody will take offence when we attempt to answer it quickly and as objectively as possible.

 

Therefore may we ask mfpa for the grounds on which he feels that our service is 'inappropriate in respect of local authority tickets' ?. We can say that our members have enjoyed full protection from them.

 

As an individual I should state that I am absolutely appalled at the bullying nature of parking enforcement procedure that Councils and their cohort private bailiff firms apply as a matter of course to the collection of unilaterially imposed fines that bypass the county court system. To harass and intimidate ordinary individuals in their own homes over what can never be anything other than alleged contraventions will never be anything other than totally unacceptable to me.

 

The forum is full of horror stories of how people are systematically abused, ignored and treated with utter disdain in their own property as if they were of no importance at all. This contempt for people in their private property has no place in our society.

 

Worse, all this is fuelled by the disgraceful nature of the law that allows the DVLA to willingly sell your private details on to those who use such information to extract money from you.

 

Cut off that supply and the whole nature of the bullying beast is tamed.

[Mossycat]

Have to say I agree with the comments made by Fair-Parking.

 

I'm not sure how it works with regard to emergency services who would sometimes genuinely need to ascertain quickly who the registered keeper is, but having said that I guess it's pretty much like a Company Car in as much as the details returned by the DVLA to the emergency service would be that of the Company (or more usually the lease Company), as opposed to the usual driver.

 

I like the idea of PPC's etc not getting details of the registered keeper though

 

Mossycat

[green_and_mean]

Hi, this is Fair-Parking. First we must say that it can sometimes be difficult for us to satisfy the requirements of posting on this or any other forum, due to the commercial nature of our service. However when somebody does pose an important question, we guess that nobody will take offence when we attempt to answer it quickly and as objectively as possible.

 

Therefore may we ask mfpa for the grounds on which he feels that our service is 'inappropriate in respect of local authority tickets' ?. We can say that our members have enjoyed full protection from them.

 

As an individual I should state that I am absolutely appalled at the bullying nature of parking enforcement procedure that Councils and their cohort private bailiff firms apply as a matter of course to the collection of unilaterially imposed fines that bypass the county court system. To harass and intimidate ordinary individuals in their own homes over what can never be anything other than alleged contraventions will never be anything other than totally unacceptable to me.

 

The forum is full of horror stories of how people are systematically abused, ignored and treated with utter disdain in their own property as if they were of no importance at all. This contempt for people in their private property has no place in our society.

 

Worse, all this is fuelled by the disgraceful nature of the law that allows the DVLA to willingly sell your private details on to those who use such information to extract money from you.

 

Cut off that supply and the whole nature of the bullying beast is tamed.

 

 

You would say that since your business relies on peoples perception of parking enforcement, lol! If you are so concerned why not do it for free??

[green_and_mean]

On a more serious note, what with all the advice about identity theft surely sending the log book of your car to a complete stranger is a bit foolish? There are several companies willing to give loans using a log book as security, what is to stop someone taking out a loan against your car?

Edited May 12, 2008 by green_and_mean
spelling

[Fair-Parking]

In reply to the last two postings by green and mean, may I just say that the villains out there are the enforcers and not those who have a method of protecting the public from them.

 

And there's nothing to stop you from offering a free scheme

[patdavies]

In reply to the last two postings by green and mean, may I just say that the villains out there are the enforcers and not those who have a method of protecting the public from them.

 

For private parking companies, I would agree with your definition as villains. However, not for Council enforcement; they are only enforcing the will of Parliament, they are not villains.

 

You also ignored G&M's point about identity theft. Whilst I accept that the V5 is not evidence of ownership, he is right that certain firms do loan against the V5.

[Fair-Parking]

Hi Pat. I haven't ignored g & m's point about identity theft nor the fact that he was writing a little tongue in cheek, but I can only speak for us. We are not party to such shenanigans and we have set out our address and contact details for all to see.

 

However, I'm sorry to disagree with you about councils. Councils are party to some of the worst examples of bullying and intimidation by their appointment of these thieves, liars and rogues in the first place - and then sitting back and ignoring legitimate complaints about not only private bailiffs acting in the name of the Council, but even their own employees acting as bailiffs and stating that they are 'court bailiffs' when they must know that they work for the council.

 

The deception is often taken further when said council employees than produce 'warrants of execution' that are no more than documents the council has produced itself.

 

It is precisely our trust in councils that is systematically abused by some of the more delinquent authorities.

 

And yes we do have examples on file.

[green_and_mean]

I must be missing the point of all this? If you forward all the PCNs to the 'client' and the car is still technically theirs and liable to be seized why bother with your 'service'?

[Fair-Parking]

G & M. I think you are missing the point. This whole [problem] bypasses the county court system and therefore there can never be any court order to seize a vehicle, or any judge's authority being given to a bailiff to enter private property.

 

Besides if a vehicle is registered with us, it is highly unlikely that any enforcer will be able to trace it's owner's whereabouts, let alone the vehicle itself.

[Steve__M]

G & M. I think you are missing the point. This whole [problem] bypasses the county court system and therefore there can never be any court order to seize a vehicle, or any judge's authority being given to a bailiff to enter private property.

 

Besides if a vehicle is registered with us, it is highly unlikely that any enforcer will be able to trace it's owner's whereabouts, let alone the vehicle itself.

 

Occasionally, we have posters who state that their car has been taken or bailiffs are demanding hundreds of points for council parking tickets they've never received, sometimes because they did not change their address with the DVLA when they moved.

 

So I don't see how your system bypasses the courts. The courts will issue judgement in default/absence surely and they may catch up with you eventually.

 

Maybe that doesn't matter to a lot of people. But I don't like the idea of people using your service thinking that they can get away with speeding, failing to tax, MOT and insure their cars - that's unfair on the rest of us.

[Fair-Parking]

Steve. M. The whole madness of council administered civil parking most certainly does bypass the county court system. There are no county court judgments and no court orders allowing bailiffs to collect outstanding 'fines', let alone granting them forcible entry into property, or adding their own fees on top.

 

However with regard to speeding, tax evasion and MOT offences as opposed to parking contraventions, we do not condone any of these and make no provision for any such protection. We will not assist anybody to break the law.

 

We are simply standing up to the bullies who would happily arrive at private property and lie to and intimidate the occupants into parting with their hard earned money despite having no legal authority to do so whatsoever.

 

Thats not so bad is it?

[patdavies]

Steve. M. The whole madness of council administered civil parking most certainly does bypass the county court system. There are no county court judgments and no court orders allowing bailiffs to collect outstanding 'fines', let alone granting them forcible entry into property, or adding their own fees on top.

 

 

Last time I looked, the TEC was part of the Court system

[Fair-Parking]

Pat. The TEC is only situated within Northampton County Court. It isn't part of the county court administrative system. It does not issue county court judgments even though the local authorities try very hard to be hazy on this issue.

 

The TEC or Traffic Enforcement Centre merely issue Orders For Recovery, not on the merits of any case but purely because a council has asked for one. Any allegation against someone about parking contraventions remains unproven. Thus enforcement does not have county court authority for if it did, then enforcement would be by county court bailiffs and not private citizens pretending to be county court bailiffs. County court bailiffs act far more responsibly and are not motivated by commission money.

 

An Order For Recovery is not a county court judgment and does not allow bailiffs to enter property.

[green_and_mean]

I am still confused?? If you make yourself the registered keeper you are liable for the fines, if its just a case of using you as a postal address then the registered keeper can still lose his car. If you think they will not find it I think you under estimate baliffs!! It would take a genius to work out that your address is not the home address and simply look at the previous registered address, electoral role etc. In addition ANPR is now commonly used and frequent 'offenders' often park in the same location they received the PCN. Can you please explain the benefits of using another address rather than just slag off the DPE system because you don't like it.

[Steve__M]

OK it may not be the county court. But it is sanctioned by law, so one is at risk of a bailiff being legally entitled to take any of your property that isn't locked in your house.

 

With regards to other offences, presumably, if you receive a Notice of Intention to Prosecute, you would provide the address of the alleged offender to the authority? Any other action (eg. just passing on correspondence) would be assisting people to avoid the law.

[Fair-Parking]

Green & Mean. We don't 'slag off' anybody, we merely answer the questions put to us. However you would be quite correct in thinking that I do not have much respect for the current system that allows for excess intimidation, very often of completely innocent people who just happen to be the ones who open the door to the liars and bullies. Others who call the current system 'an indefensible parking racket' include Mail on Sunday with several other newspapers echoing the same thought. 'Parking rules are designed to force drivers into expensive cars parks, or to catch then for minior infringements or ungenerous time limits'

 

There's nothing wrong with councils expecting to be paid for parking, but bullying in any form is abhorrent to me, more so when it happens to people in their own homes and is encouraged by councils turning blind eyes.

 

If you feel that bullying in people in their homes is fair and just then I suspect that the scheme isn't for you. People in their own homes isn't just restricted to the registered keeper, it often places undue stress on wives, parents, in laws, children and other relatives who are often exposed to the deceit and intimidation when the rk is at work. This forum constantly reveals the horror of such exposure.

 

People do not lose their cars without court judgments granting confiscation unless they have broken a law, such as having no tax, but do remember that parking for the main part is now civil (or decriminalised if you prefer), thus there are no laws to be broken. There's absolutely no confusion over that.

 

Though some rogue firms of bailiffs claim to have ANPR (notably JBW 'stars' of Cops, Cars and Bailiffs who openly lied on most programs with the less than intelligent 'I am a court bailiff' and 'I have a court order'), ANPR is only used by the police for the purpose of tracking offenders. Some bailiff companies have a data base linked to their vans, but it is not ANPR, even if like JBW they deceitfully claim on national tv that they are linked to ANPR.

 

If you find it difficult to believe that county judgments are not part of the civil parking system then again I don't think the scheme is for you. As far as tracing owners who register with us, then I have to advise you that all enforcers have so far batted zero.

 

The benefits of our scheme are fully explained on the web site.

[Fair-Parking]

No Steve. We do not condone any law breaking. As we keep saying, the plain fact is it is the people who cheat within the system you need to be on your guard against.

 

These bailiffs are not santioned by law any more than you or I are. They are private citizens working for private companies and operating without court sanction or court orders. So no, they cannot take any property at will.

 

Yes of course we would pass on legal notices as it is not illegal to do so. Why shouldn't our members be given every chance to do the honest thing and respond? Members of our scheme are not dishonest, just sick of being cheated and lied to.

 

If they do not act then the police usually follow their enquiry up and our members know that we will assist the police, but also offer them advice.

[green_and_mean]

Green & Mean. We don't 'slag off' anybody, we merely answer the questions put to us. However you would be quite correct in thinking that I do not have much respect for the current system that allows for excess intimidation, very often of completely innocent people who just happen to be the ones who open the door to the liars and bullies. Others who call the current system 'an indefensible parking racket' include Mail on Sunday with several other newspapers echoing the same thought. 'Parking rules are designed to force drivers into expensive cars parks, or to catch then for minior infringements or ungenerous time limits'

 

There's nothing wrong with councils expecting to be paid for parking, but bullying in any form is abhorrent to me, more so when it happens to people in their own homes and is encouraged by councils turning blind eyes.

 

If you feel that bullying in people in their homes is fair and just then I suspect that the scheme isn't for you. People in their own homes isn't just restricted to the registered keeper, it often places undue stress on wives, parents, in laws, children and other relatives who are often exposed to the deceit and intimidation when the rk is at work. This forum constantly reveals the horror of such exposure.

 

People do not lose their cars without court judgments granting confiscation unless they have broken a law, such as having no tax, but do remember that parking for the main part is now civil (or decriminalised if you prefer), thus there are no laws to be broken. There's absolutely no confusion over that.

 

Though some rogue firms of bailiffs claim to have ANPR (notably JBW 'stars' of Cops, Cars and Bailiffs who openly lied on most programs with the less than intelligent 'I am a court bailiff' and 'I have a court order'), ANPR is only used by the police for the purpose of tracking offenders. Some bailiff companies have a data base linked to their vans, but it is not ANPR, even if like JBW they deceitfully claim on national tv that they are linked to ANPR.

 

If you find it difficult to believe that county judgments are not part of the civil parking system then again I don't think the scheme is for you. As far as tracing owners who register with us, then I have to advise you that all enforcers have so far batted zero.

 

The benefits of our scheme are fully explained on the web site.

 

 

I don't think you even understand how your system works yourself!! lol You have just said you beleive the baliffs can not take your car for failing to pay a parking fine and that certified Council baliffs cannot take goods from your house based on a warrant of execution. If all this is true why bother with your scheme at all just ignore the demands as you seem to think the whole Council enforcement process is a figment of peoples imagination.

 

ANPR is used by baliffs or do you really think the numpty in the back of the van is reading the VRMs off of 4 cameras and looking them up on a PC all whilst driving along at 30 mph!! just because its not linked to the PNC does not mean its not ANPR.

[Fair-Parking]

G & M - We are perfectly clear on the law which is why none of our members have ever been troubled. Had they been I'm sure that the forums would have be informed.

 

May we once again state that we stand for those who would otherwise be bullied by liars pretending they have authority. Further, bailiffs are not 'certified', but certificated by their local county court. Even that doesn't make them court bailiffs. The 'warrant of execution' you refer to will not be issued by the county court as they need to have the security of a court judgment for that. Like most 'warrants of execution' that are touted by private bailiffs, these are likely to be typed up in the bailiff or council office and will not be court stamped. Further, entry to a property can only take place after a county court judge has signed a order to that effect and it has been stamped by the court. The bailiffs you refer to have none of this. That's why they lie.

 

On the issue of private citizens being allowed access to ANPR, that would indeed be an unlawful erosion of our civil liberties. Only the police have full access, unless the assistant police commissioner I spoke to had got it wrong.

[green_and_mean]

G & M - We are perfectly clear on the law which is why none of our members have ever been troubled. Had they been I'm sure that the forums would have be informed.

 

May we once again state that we stand for those who would otherwise be bullied by liars pretending they have authority. Further, bailiffs are not 'certified', but certificated by their local county court. Even that doesn't make them court bailiffs. The 'warrant of execution' you refer to will not be issued by the county court as they need to have the security of a court judgment for that. Like most 'warrants of execution' that are touted by private bailiffs, these are likely to be typed up in the bailiff or council office and will not be court stamped. Further, entry to a property can only take place after a county court judge has signed a order to that effect and it has been stamped by the court. The bailiffs you refer to have none of this. That's why they lie.

 

On the issue of private citizens being allowed access to ANPR, that would indeed be an unlawful erosion of our civil liberties. Only the police have full access, unless the assistant police commissioner I spoke to had got it wrong.

 

 

Once the debt has been registered with the TEC the Council can apply for a County Court Warrant of execution allowing the certified baliffs to seize goods or the car.

 

Any one can buy, own or use APNR software how does it erode our civil liberties any more than me walking down the street writing down each VRM or taking a photo of each car?? The only thing the Police have unique access to is the PNC. I could purchase an APNR system and install it at the end of my drive to allow the gates to open for only myself and friends, how is this infringinging your civil liberties you have no legal right to enter my drive?

[Fair-Parking]

G & M. Councils cannot apply for 'warrants of execution' via the TEC, just an Order For Recovery

 

It isn't compulsory to join our scheme and clearly as you do not believe in it, it is not for you.

[green_and_mean]

G & M. Councils cannot apply for 'warrants of execution' via the TEC, just an Order For Recovery

 

Shame the TEC does not agree with you...

 

If you do not file a valid statutory declaration with TEC within 21 days of the date on the Order for Recovery, the Local Authority may enforce the Charge by requesting a warrant. Once the warrant has been authorised by TEC, the Local Authority will employ private bailiffs to execute the warrant.

Info about - County Court Bulk Centre - Traffic Enforcement Centre

 

but what do I know!?!

 

ps If they get their car seized can they sue you?

[PPC Buster]

Shame the TEC does not agree with you...

 

If you do not file a valid statutory declaration with TEC within 21 days of the date on the Order for Recovery, the Local Authority may enforce the Charge by requesting a warrant. Once the warrant has been authorised by TEC, the Local Authority will employ private bailiffs to execute the warrant.

Info about - County Court Bulk Centre - Traffic Enforcement Centre

 

but what do I know!?!

 

ps If they get their car seized can they sue you?

The thing is you can use fair parking to dodge council PCNs and bailiffs until some day you go for a drive into London, Manchester or other big city and some bailiff with ANPR spots your car parked up. Then you are in the do do. You could be found owing for several PCNs which have gone to recovery stage at a few hundred a piece.

[green_and_mean]

The Police can also request you produce the V5 for inspection if you fail to do so you can be fined.

 

Most Councils also require a copy of the V5 before issuing a residents permit.

 

This idea is frankly like one of the 'businesses' they put on Dragons Den to provide the comedy aspect of the show. There are so many holes in the idea its comical.....good luck though!! (just don't leave your door open or you may find all your furniture gone when you come back, lol)