Londonfightsback -v- DCAs

[Londonfightsback]

Im a bit confused. There are so many posts all suggesting that to remove a default or stop lenders demanding money back that you request to see the CCA. Why does everyone think that they have all lost these and if the bank didnt get it signed in the first place why the hell not if they know the debt would be unenforceable.

 

I have unfortunatley 1 default and 3 cards currently up to date but am about to miss payments. I also have an over drawn bank account which has been terminated. Do I ask for CCA for all of them or Subject access requests?

 

Bit confused...

[Struggling_Simon]

Hey London,

 

I will alleviate your confusion.

 

There is never any assumption made that the creditor will not be able to produce a original agreement - it is your statutory right to ask them to.

 

They have to produce it within 12 days in order to prove that they are equitably assigned (i.e that they can lawfully enforce the debt against you).

 

If the creditor has not followed due process, the alleged debtor cannot be 'put at detriment' in the contract. So that is why you should always ask for it.

 

If your case ever gets to be heard in court (very rare); you must be sure to have followed all the statutory remedies possible before starting litigation, otherwise your case is weakened.

 

 

Long and the short of it is that the DCA's and other parties seldom do follow all the legal processes required as they should, choosing instead to chase the quick buck. They are meant to do quite alot to process the account, but often cut corners.

 

Specifically to your case, if you know that you won't be able to meet your payments, tell your creditors as soon as you can - if only, it casts you in a reasonable light - this is important if things turn bad. I think you'll find it is one of your duties to do so in the contract.

 

In order to get out of your tight spot, ask if you can agree reduced payments for a certain period to avoid defaulting on your duties under the contract(with all the implications therein). You can offer a reasonable ammount, and it must be affordable to you. There is a budget planner spreadsheet on the templates library.

 

I know it is tough, but you have to be disciplined and realistic if you are to get out of this unscathed. Fear Not. There are many good people on this forum to help you. I am happy to help, send me a PM if you have a specific question.

 

 

The terminated bank account is interesting, but you should not regard it as a priority debt right now, unless you suspect that you have been disproportionally charged. If that is the case it's a rapid deployment of both the CCA and subject access request letters to the creditor(s) involed, to start the process.

[Londonfightsback]

Thanks so much.

 

I will get the CAA off tomorrow. I understand what that is for. What about the SAR. What is this for?

 

Also Ive read in some posts the CAA does not apply to bank account overdrafts? Is this true?

[CHRIS581]

Hi London - welcome to the club !!!

 

If you read a lot of the other threads and follow some through, it becomes a lot clearer - but you are going to play the banks at their own game, and it's not a quick job & needs to be done properly.

 

Your overdraft wouldn't be governed under a consumer credit aggreement (CCA) as it's not a fixed 'deal'. Read up on it! It's all on here.

 

The S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) makes (if your lucky) whoever your asking (paying £10 !!) to just furnish you with all the information they have on you, statements etc.

This way you can see exactly how much they have taken over time, to start you claim / dispute.

 

As I say, read A LOT of the other threads, and the wise words from some of the heros on here, who know their onions!!

 

There are many people in the same boat as you (us), I can't reiterate enough - spend some time reading things on here - a lot of effort has gone into formulating the correct approach, and get the benefit of other peoples experience - and you are in good company!!

[2Grumpy]

The overdraft IS covered by the consumer credit act, but differently. There not the same form of agreement so it's a waste of time asking for it.

 

Send CCA requests to whoever is asking for money re the credit cards - if they have been passed to a debt collector, send to them, otherwise the original creditor.

 

Send your subject access request to the bank about your current account. That way you will get details of all charges so that you can claim them back.

 

None of this will help with the default though. That will stay on your credit record for a total of 6 years, there have been some unsuccessful attempts to get them rremoved (and a few successes)

 

Grumpy

[Struggling_Simon]

2Grumpy,

 

I don't wish to appear contradictory but although I am largely in agreement with you, I find your statement regarding defaults a bit consfusing.

 

My argument would be that 'If the defaults have been inaccurately (or even unlawfully) recorded', the data subject always has the right to ensure that detrimental records are removed or made accurate under Sections 10 and 12 of the Data Protection Act.

 

The act affords the right and ownership of said data (at all times) to the data subject(hence the term Protection), therefore if the debts are being enforced outside of the Consumer Credit Act in respect of equitable assignment, this could be applied- with the argument that the trust has been breached between the two parties to the contract, and therefore the data subject can revoke the creditors' right to hold,process or share the data subjects' personal information.

 

CurlyBen has a good lot of experience in that and has worked up a stratagem to do exactly this. Check out his threads.

 

Last count for him was 7 for 0 no loss. I myself am 1 for 0 with the slipperiest of DCA's - Cabot - although the circumstances for me were fairly clear cut.

 

Also, you suggest that it's the DCA's that should get the CCA (Consumer Credit Act request) - I agree. In the first instance.

 

As for the DSAR (Data Subject Access Request) - I would do both the original creditor and the parties trying to now enforce the debt. There is a whole host of information that will come - maybe even the true closing balance of the account when it was transferred between the OC(original creditor) and the DCA(debt collection agent).

 

The CCA74 says quite clearly that any charges or interest levied on the acount must be in keeping with the original agreement, even after transferral of assignment.

 

The DCA's don't generally abide by that rule, as they add charges and apply interest on those charges - that's not permitted. Upshot being that wriet some letters and watch those balances shrink!

[2Grumpy]

I'm not sure that you need to SAR the DCAs - the CCA should come with a statement of account. The DCAs also have to provide the same, so any charges / interest applied by DCAs should be apparent. It's probably worth waiting for the CCA response for credit accounts first, to see what you get. Even then, ask the DCA for a statement first, and apply a bit of maths: original balance - x repayments = current balance. If thats what the DCAs say it is - no problem - save £10. I know that it can start to get expensive if you have several accounts.

 

I have seen plenty of cases where getting defaults removed has failed. I wasn't meaning to say that it's not worth trying, just trying not to set expectations too high. Plenty say "we don't have a cca but we have enough evidence of financial transactions to support a default entry". Faced with that, the only way forward is via the courts. Unless of course they have got a valid CCA & valid default notice & no penalty charges included in the default balance.

 

Grumpy

[Londonfightsback]

This is the situation.

 

I fell behind on payments in October of last year on three cards and a loan. I went for three months without paying anything and ended up having to move from a rented house to living with Parents elsewhere in the UK.

 

The card companies (accept one) all were patient and by January I was able to pay all missing repayemnts and get back on schedule. The loan was exactly the same. I'm now paying all payments normally with the card companies and loan.

 

However one card company that I had when I rung them to make payment they said they had "defaulted the account and sold the debt".!!!

 

This was in January 2008. Since then Ive had numerous debt collection agencies writing letters (The post office forwards it on to me from the old address) demanding payment or they will visit the house. Obvuiously if they have there is nobody there.

 

The debt it £18,000. One DCA offered to accept £150 per month which is obviously very low and would take 10 years to pay off. I'm worried if I contact them they will try and get me to pay the whole debt immediatley which I cant do.

 

These are my questions.

 

1.Why do you think the bank sold the debt so quickly? Is it because they dont have a CCA?

2. Why did the DCA offer a payment plan that would take 10 years so quickly. Again no CCA?

3. If I send a CCA do I send to the original bank or to the DCA (its now MoorCroft)

4. If I want to get this default removed who can do this, the DCA or the original bank.

5. Obviously at the moment they dont have my correct address, if I make contact will this be worse or will the matter go away?

6. Any ideas what to do? I want to settle this (at a lesser price if possible but more importantly get this deafult removed.

 

Is there anything else I should do?

 

Any advice would be VERY VERY welcome.

 

Thanks

[ODC]

These are my questions.

 

1.Why do you think the bank sold the debt so quickly? Is it because they dont have a CCA? No. Banks tend nowadays to sell off debt rather quickly

2. Why did the DCA offer a payment plan that would take 10 years so quickly. Again no CCA? Possibly. You would soon discover that they wouldnt be happy with the £150 for long and would be constantly prssurising you to increase the monthly payment

3. If I send a CCA do I send to the original bank or to the DCA (its now MoorCroft) Moorrcroft

4. If I want to get this default removed who can do this, the DCA or the original bank. The default would only be removed if the debt was paid in full

5. Obviously at the moment they dont have my correct address, if I make contact will this be worse or will the matter go away? Moorcroft may get fed up and sell it on or they may fo for a CCJ

6. Any ideas what to do? I want to settle this (at a lesser price if possible but more importantly get this deafult removed.If you have the money you could offer a percentage as a full and final settlement

 

Is there anything else I should do?

 

Any advice would be VERY VERY welcome.

 

Thanks

..

 

If it was up to me I would CCA Moorcroft

[Londonfightsback]

Thankyou so much for your advice.

 

However do I ask for a CCA? If they dont have one can I get the default removed?

[poker_mad]

First thing to do is send a cca request to all of them then you will know. I would CCA the DCA then you can find out if they have really have bought the debt, if they have they won't have paid any way near £18000 for it.

[Londonfightsback]

If I CCA the DCA, and agree a payment withe them how can i get rid of the default notice. I'm told if i didnrt receive it, it cant be registered? Is that true? Is there any other way to remove it and would the card issuer its a RBS mint card be the only ones who can remove it?

[ODC]

Yes but it will probaly involve you taking Legal Action

[Londonfightsback]

Thanks. Ive read post for about a week now and Im still not exactly sure what to do.

 

Also getting late payment notices removed is there anyway around that legally apart from just asking?

[PriorityOne]

How much of this £18K is still alleged to be outstanding ?.... and when did you take out the loan/card ?

 

If it's still around the £18K mark and Moorcroft have no CCA, then you need to consider a tiny F&F and stipulate that you want all defaults removed at the same time. Get it in writing before parting with any cash as well.

[Londonfightsback]

Hi

The loan is from four years ago. £17,600 is still outstanding. Shall I write the letter below to the Bank and not contact MoorCroft or send the letter to Moorcroft. The question I have is can Moorcroft remove the default as they didnt apply it.

 

Thanks so much for your time in helping me.

Royal Bank of Scotland

 

26 April 2008

Dear Sir or Madam

Account number - xxxxxxxxxx

Sort Code - xxxxxx

After recently obtaining a copy of my credit file from Experian I was concerned to note that your company has placed a "Default" notice against an account in my name.

Further to this, I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data at your earliest convenience.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice.

3. Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on.

I would request that this data is provided to myself within the next 28 days, if you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that it is removed from my files as unsubstantiated.

Yours faithfully

[PriorityOne]

As Moorcroft have not placed the default there, there is no point asking them to remove it. This is a separate isssue to your CCA request.

 

The CCA request needs to go to Moorcroft as it is from the template on this site. Initial it (don't sign it), enclose a postal order for £1 (not a cheque) and send by rec. delivery. Keep the receipt. If Moorcroft have not bought this account, then they should return it to the original creditor and you can deal with the whole issue then.

 

If Moorcroft have bought the account, then whether they have an enforceable CCA should determine what level of F&F you should consider in order to get the default removed as part of the deal, so to speak..

 

I have never had to deal with defaults, so don't feel entirely comfortable advising on it but if this was my situation and Moorcroft had no enforceable CCA for £17.5K... it would be cause for much celebration on its own.

 

[gymfreak1978]

CCA goes to Moorcroft not RBOS as Moorcroft are demanding payment

 

Moorcroft will drop the file like flies if they cant provide a CCA

 

You wont get any luck in Moorcroft removing the default im afraid, might aswell bang your head aginst a brick wall, unless u paid the account in full, or get them to agree to full and final settlement then the default with be marked as partially satisfied.

[ananya]

This is the situation.

 

I fell behind on payments in October of last year on three cards and a loan. I went for three months without paying anything and ended up having to move from a rented house to living with Parents elsewhere in the UK.

 

The card companies (accept one) all were patient and by January I was able to pay all missing repayemnts and get back on schedule. The loan was exactly the same. I'm now paying all payments normally with the card companies and loan.

 

However one card company that I had when I rung them to make payment they said they had "defaulted the account and sold the debt".!!!

 

This was in January 2008. Since then Ive had numerous debt collection agencies writing letters (The post office forwards it on to me from the old address) demanding payment or they will visit the house. Obvuiously if they have there is nobody there.

 

The debt it £18,000. One DCA offered to accept £150 per month which is obviously very low and would take 10 years to pay off. I'm worried if I contact them they will try and get me to pay the whole debt immediatley which I cant do.

 

These are my questions.

 

1.Why do you think the bank sold the debt so quickly? Is it because they dont have a CCA? Some are just quicker off the mark than others

2. Why did the DCA offer a payment plan that would take 10 years so quickly. Again no CCA? Not necessarily, they are offering you something that they think is a reasonable payment - I think it's still too high

3. If I send a CCA do I send to the original bank or to the DCA (its now MoorCroft) Definitely send a CCA request and send it to Moorcroft, it's up to them to prove they have the legal right to collect the debt, not the OC

4. If I want to get this default removed who can do this, the DCA or the original bank. Whoever defaulted you, you need to find this out before you can try and get it removed

5. Obviously at the moment they dont have my correct address, if I make contact will this be worse or will the matter go away? No, it won't go away, but only make contact in writing and don't hand sign any letters

6. Any ideas what to do? I want to settle this (at a lesser price if possible but more importantly get this deafult removed. There are templates here for various types of letter, including a F&FS - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

Is there anything else I should do?

 

Any advice would be VERY VERY welcome.

 

Thanks

 

If I were you, my first step would be to send a CCA to Moorcroft, make sure the agreement, if one arrives, is enforceable then take it from there. If you think that excessive charges have been applied to the account, then you can sand a SAR to the bank to find out exactly what has been charged and try to reclaim those fees.

 

Good luck and remember everyone on CAG is here to help.

[tiglet]

Ananya is right - if you hide from them, firstly you will drive yourself mad and secondly, at some point they may be able to trace you anyway.

 

Make sure they have a legal right to collect the debt and I do agree, the monthly offer does seem very high to me (unless you are in a well paid job and can afford it.

[PriorityOne]

There are 2 threads on the same subject....

[ananya]

This thread is also in the General Debt forum

[Londonfightsback]

Thank you so much for all your help and assistance. Ive read alot of other posts and really appreciate everyones help.

 

I will CAA moorcroft on monday. It was RBS who defaulted me. Do I CAA them as well or write them a letter like this?

 

Royal Bank of Scotland

 

26 April 2008

Dear Sir or Madam

Account number - xxxxxxxxxx

Sort Code - xxxxxx

After recently obtaining a copy of my credit file from Experian I was concerned to note that your company has placed a "Default" notice against an account in my name.

Further to this, I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data at your earliest convenience.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice.

3. Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on.

I would request that this data is provided to myself within the next 28 days, if you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that it is removed from my files as unsubstantiated.

Yours faithfully

[PriorityOne]

This thread is also in the General Debt forum

 

Yep... I've just said something silimar on that one.

[PriorityOne]

Please decide which thread you want to use on this.