Hillesden/Aplins claimform - 2001 with Associates Capital now Welcome car HP

[Having_A_Knightmare]

When did you get theCCJ and did you attend?

[Zebedee]

My missus was taken to court over an unsecured loan of £1000 taken out with Wellcome finance.

She pleaded not guilty to the summons and sent the paperwork back,

however she heard nothing more and ended up with a CCJ.

 

 

Because the CCJ was for the sum of £2700 summary judgement she could not afford to pay and ultimately a charging order was made against our home.

 

I dont think this is fair, after pleading not guilty and not having a chance to put our case forward.

The debt is apparently owned by Hillesden and the solicitors involved was Aplins.

 

We are now getting letters from Aplins saying pay up or we will take you to court again.

 

Do we have any recourse here?

I did write to the Land Registry people stating it was unfair for an unsecured debt to be turned into a secured debt and that it was me who was paying the mortgage, not my wife. Obviously fell on deaf ears.

 

Any help or guidance would be much appreciated.

[ukaviator]

Did you ask for a copy of the agreement, or do you have a copy you could scan up, minus your personal details? If there is no CCA, you could apply for a set aside of the CCJ, which probably was issued first before the charging order. If you are sure the debt is actually unenforceable under CCA regs you could then defend the claim on the basis that it's unenforceable. It maybe that the loan documents may be flawed and not enforcable, so i would start looking there first.

 

The main issue you have is timing, as the court date will be the hearing to decide if CO is made final or not. You need to attend the hearing regardless of other applications you may or may not be making. You could try asking for an adjournment but this is at the judge's discretion.

 

What I would do is to prepare your arguments against the final CO being made. If you have little or no equity you can argue there is no point in a CO. If you have a lot of equity, you could argue it's disproportionate to the debt you owe. You could argue it's unfairly prioritising them against any other unsecured creditors that you may have. You do need to be aware that more judges seem to feel that a CO is not unreasonable as an enforcement method and they are becoming more common.

 

There must be some late payment charges on the account as well she could claim back.

 

It looks like this maybe an "Interim Charging Order". An interim charging order is usually made automatically without a hearing and a date for a full hearing is set. A copy of the interim order will be sent to you.

 

The second stage is the court hearing in front of the District Judge. At this hearing the court will decide whether to make a permanent charge on the property. This is called a final charging order. If you object to a charging order being made final then you should send the creditor and the court written evidence stating why you object. You should do this at least 7 days before the hearing. This could be in a form of a letter of objection outlining all the arguments you have for why the charging order should not be made. This should be sent by registered post to both the creditor and the court.

 

If you do this then your arguments should be taken into account by the District Judge at the hearing. You should still go to the hearing and if you do not send any written evidence then it is vital that you go.

 

If the debt is in wifes sole name, but you own the house in joint names with her, you have the right to tell the court all the circumstances and why you would suffer hardship if a charging order is made. You should have been sent a copy of the interim charging order and given an opportunity to go to the hearing to put your points. For example:

 

Who paid for the deposit to buy the home?

 

Who has made the mortgage payments since?

 

If there are children at home, ask the court to put a condition that the house cannot be sold by the creditor until the children have grown up.

 

The co-owner will need to file and serve written evidence of their objections at least 7 days before the hearing.

 

If a charging order is made by the court, then it will only apply to your wifes share of the property.

[Zebedee]

The order is a final charging order.

I didn't know about most of this until fairly recently for various reasons, suffice is to say that I know everything now.

 

 

As far as I can see, if she pleaded not guilty to the original summons then should the court not have postponed the hearing and transferred the hearing to my local court?

 

 

I did ask for and received a copy of the CCA, but other documents were also included with my wife's signature on them, such as for 'health insurance' which she swears blind she did not sign.

 

The only paperwork I have had was from the Land Registry confirming a final charging order being made.

 

I paid the deposit and pay the monthly payments, but the mortgage is in both our names and obviously the lender will not allow me to change this.

 

I just feel that we have been blind-sided here and have had absolutely no opportunity to put her case forward.

 

Anyone?

[Dangermouse]

Hi

 

I had one of these things for £200k. The Charging orders Nisi are made by an ex parte application to the Court (i.e. you will not be informed). As has previously been said, a hearing date is set for the Final Charging Order. It is that date that you have to attend and provide your evidence. There are ways to halt the process, but you would have needed very good reasons & sometimes these are only delays. For example, does anyone else have an interest in the property & were they put on notice of the hearing? Do you owe money to other creditors & would the granting of the final order prejudice your other creditors, or would this creditor be preferenced in the event of your insolvency?

 

I fear that it might be too late, it is certainly nothing that the Land Registery can do without instruction from the courts or the agreement of your creditor. I think you must tackle the judgement against you, get that judgement set aside and on the basis of that apply to remove the charge.

 

I am not sure what I can do, but I have been in a heap of poo myself and know my round a little bit. I am sure you dont want to put any details up on the sight but if you want to PM me then I will put my mind to it & see if can think of something to help.

 

Dangermouse

[Dangermouse]

I meant SITE of course

 

Dangermouse

[Zebedee]

My wife took out a loan in 2002 with Welcome Finance for £1000. Very shortly after taking this out we both were made redundant and obviously Welcome didn't want to know. Eventually it ended up in the hands of Direct & Legal Collections, who unknown at the time to me, took my wife to court and got a summary judgment for £2766.10, which after further time ended up as a charging order on our house, and this is where we are today.

 

This morning, my wife received a letter from Aplins. I've typed it out below:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

We are about to issue a Warrant Of Execution against you. This will incur an additional Court fee and costs which will be added to the amount you already owe.

 

Unless you pay the amount of the Warrant the Court Bailiff will call at your address with a view to taking an inventory and levying on goods belonging to you.

 

If you still do not make payment the Bailiff will remove goods of sufficient value to clear the Warrant.

 

The goods will then be sold at auction........at auction prices. This means that in order to clear the Warrant, goods to the value of substantially more than the amount involved will have to be removed and sold.

 

If you wish to avoid this you must take immediate action and contact our instructing agents (direct legal and collections, Buckingham Road, Brackley, Northants NN13 DN), Tel.01280 707575 to make a payment or reach an arrangement.

 

Yours faithfully

 

(illegible scrawl)

 

Aplins

 

 

Firstly, after asking about the initial loan there was a huge amount of PPI added to the initial amount - are we still able to claim this back as it was not required and in fact turned out to be completely useless. There was also an amount added as Health Insurance and she has no idea what that part of the loan was for.

 

Secondly, dlc have secured a charging order against our property, which I tried to defend against but got nowhere. Can they take out a Warrant of Execution against a charging order?

 

Any help as to what my next step should be?

[dx100uk]

warrant on a charging order?

 

dx

[Zebedee]

Yep, thats what I thought.

 

Surely this is intimidation?

[AndyOrch]

We are about to issue a Warrant Of Execution against you For what reason ?

 

They have their CO and thats their lot, looks like a veiled attempt to raise your monthly payment.You have not defaulted on the installment order I trust?

Report them to the Court that issued Judgment and Dont ring them.

Ill have a look around and see how you can get a Warrant of Execution on a Charging Order:madgrin:

Regards

Andy

[Zebedee]

The thing is there is no installment order and we have made no payments towards it.

[AndyOrch]

How old is the CCJ ? Was it a forthwith Judgment? Why have you not made any payment or arranged a payment plan?

[AndyOrch]

What will happen if I do nothing ?

If you have a county court judgment against then you must respond. If you do not pay anything, or you do not keep up with the payments, then the claimant is within their rights to ask the court to enforce the Judgment either with a warrant of execution or an attachment of earnings order (AEO). A warrant of execution means that a county court bailiff can visit your home or business to either collect the money you owe or see if your possessions can be used to pay the debt instead.

[Zebedee]

I didn't know about the CCJ until the Land Registry contacted me as joint owner of the property.

 

 

I have no idea what a forthwith judgement is, so not sure.

 

 

The Charging Order was put on the house because no payments had been made on the CCJ in the first place.

 

 

Had I known about the CCJ then something would have been sorted.

 

 

They did enforce the judgement by way of a Charging Order

- are you saying both the CCJ AND charging order are both valid at the same time????

[AndyOrch]

Ok if you accept the CCJ/CO then you need to contact them to arrange a suitable payment plan.

 

 

You can do this direct with the Claimant.

 

If however you cant agree a payment then you can vary the Judgment by way of the N245 with a fee of £35.

(or free via the N244 is judgment awarded not more than 14 days ago)

 

If they do make application for a Warrant in the meantime you can make application to stay it via the N244 (Application Notice).

 

If you disagree with the Judgment (and you have grounds no knowledge) then you can make application to set a side and re defend.

 

So a few options but act quickly what ever your decision.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Zebedee]

The original CCJ is approximately 4 or 5 years old, nearer to 5.

Is there any way I can check?

The CCJ was not in my name, just my wife's name and she was in no state to defend anything at that time. So I wouldn't think I could disagree with the judgment, as it was not against me.

 

I thought that if the claimant had taken out a charging order then that was enforcing the original CCJ?

Is this not right?

 

What about the PPI portion of the original loan? Could this be challenged?

 

This has been kinda sprung on me this morning,

i didn't realise the CCJ could still be enforced even with a charging order on my home,

and it grates even more when the original had nothing to do with me.

[AndyOrch]

The original CCJ is approximately 4 or 5 years old, nearer to 5.Ok so they trying to enforce/execute it before times up (6 years) Is there any way I can check? There is a site called Trust costs £5 for the information The CCJ was not in my name, just my wife's name and she was in no state to defend anything at that time. So I wouldn't think I could disagree with the judgment, as it was not against me. You can disagree if the debt was hers alone and you are joint homeowners the restriction should be placed on her interest only on the valuation of the home ie 50% and if so is therefore a restriction only and not a CO

 

I thought that if the claimant had taken out a charging order then that was enforcing the original CCJ? Is this not right? They have secured it and should you sell up they will be payed (if a full CO not so on a restriction see above) Further execution would be either a Warrant or a AOE or in very rare situations forced house sale

 

What about the PPI portion of the original loan? Could this be challenged? As a separate claim yes if it was mis sold

 

This has been kinda sprung on me this morning, i didn't realise the CCJ could still be enforced even with a charging order on my home, and it grates even more when the original had nothing to do with me.

See above re restriction

Andy

 

 

 

[Zebedee]

Thanks for the info, Andy although the information I have is that it is a full charging order and not a restriction.

 

The PPI was definitely mis-sold. Because dlc now own this debt, do I start a claim for this with them?

 

I think the important thing to do here is make an offer of payment to dlc for now, and follow up on the mis-sold PPI. I need to clarify whether its a restriction OR a full C/O. If it is a full C/O what do I do next? If a restriction what then?

 

Sorry for sounding ignorant with all the questions, but I really am unsure as to what I need to do here and I do appreciate your help and advice.

[dx100uk]

ppi reclaim to the OC always.

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

Thanks for the info, Andy although the information I have is that it is a full charging order and not a restriction.

 

The PPI was definitely mis-sold. Because dlc now own this debt, do I start a claim for this with them? See above

I think the important thing to do here is make an offer of payment to dlc for now,Crucial and follow up on the mis-sold PPI.Sounds like a plan I need to clarify whether its a restriction OR a full C/O. If it is a full C/O what do I do next? If a restriction what then? Depends on your circumstances Zeb if you can agree a payment plan and are happy to leave it as that or if you wish to challenge it (if they wont come to a mutual agreement)

 

Sorry for sounding ignorant with all the questions, but I really am unsure as to what I need to do here and I do appreciate your help and advice.

Not a problem Zeb its a daunting position to be in if you dont understand the process.

Let me know what transpires after you contact them but act tomorrow.

Regards

Andy

 

 

 

[Zebedee]

Hi all

 

My missus took out a loan with Welcome Finance back in 2002, we got into bother back then and it became statute barred years ago.

 

She received a letter today dated 9-9-2016 saying if she doesn't make a proposal to pay off this debt they will apply to the courts to have the claimant name changed to ME II (whoever they are) and then go for a charging order on our home.

 

I vaguely remember Welcome Finance collapsed and were run by the FSA (?)

 

A lot of the original loan was made up of fake insurances, payment protection and all sorts of add-ons that we raised with the FSA years ago but heard nothing since.

 

Should I write a 'prove it' letter on her behalf to Mortimer Clarke Solicitors? Who do I contact over the original paperwork - we don't have any.

 

Any advice appreciated

[dx100uk]

read it PROPERLY

it doesn't say WILL anywhere.

 

 

dx

[Zebedee]

Letter says:

 

" We have been instructed to apply for a charging order against you should you fail to make satisfactory payment proposals.

 

 

If an acceptable payment is not made within 7 days from the date of this letter, an application will be made to the County Court to change the name of the claimant in the proceedings to our client.

 

Once this has been granted an application for a charging order will then be made in order to secure the judgement debt against your property and if awarded, may affect your ability to re-mortgage or sell your property without first satidfying the debt in full. County court fees and solicitor's costs will also be applied to your debt and interest may accrue until the debt is paid in full.

 

If you contact us after the charging order application has been made, in order to make an offer 9of repayment, we may accept that offer is it is affordable and sustainable. However, please note this will not stop the proceedings from continuing and a Final Charging Order being requested.

 

You should note that our client may be willing to accept a reduced amount from you, if you were able to make a lump sum payment now in full and final settlement of the debt. It woyld be in your interests to take advantage of this offer, and settle the debt now, in order to prevent your debt increasing, and a charge being registered on your property.

 

Please contact use as a matter of urhgency on 0333 121 4454 to propose payments and thereby avoid, should your offer be acceptable, the above charging order application being made. We are available from 8:00am to 8:00pm Monday to friday and 9:00am to 1:00pm on Saturdays.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Mortimer Clarke"

 

I think I did read it properly?

 

After speaking to the missus,

Welcome obtained a charging Oder for this back in 2004/2005 ish which has since been paid off in full.

 

 

We dont have any original paperwork for this,

no listing on her credit file,

and Welcome went into default in 2005 and were administered by the FSCS.

 

 

In fact I remember claiming for PPI and insurances sold by Welcome back then to the FSCS but heard nothing back - we had completely forgotten about this as it was such a long time ago.

 

Also,

as our home is not solely in her name,

as I understand it they could not get a charging order anyway, but could get a restriction instead.

Is that correct?

 

 

All this makes no sense to me at all.

Its a very old debt that has been paid one way or another, and then these people are trying to do it all again.

[dx100uk]

found an old thread

and merged it here

though it seems confusing as it first says your welcome loan

then your wifes

so prob 2 loans unrelated that have previously been merged.

.....................

 

an application will be made to the county court to change the name of the claimant in the proceedings to our client.

 

what proceedings?

 

I assume this is the old CO is still on Land registry?

 

is it still there?

they want to change claimant name to enable them to enforce the CO?

 

bit confusing.

 

dx

[ThedaBara]

Sounds like they are trying to scare you... if they were really serious about getting a CO they'd have made a without notice application for an Interim CO, rather than just warning you.. TB