me verses natwest.. cca response help please

[Curlyben]

This should shake them up even more:

 

Formal Complaint

Letter before Action

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore, if this non-compliance continues for a further month then a summary, criminal offence is committed.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

Yours Faithfully

[electrica77]

Just quickly- if you ever want to make an offer to anyone in a legal situation, Put a title in bold lettering stating 'Without Prejudice'. This is a legal term that means that your offer/letter may not be later brought up in court or in any future discussions without the consent of both parties (where as you rightly say it may be seen as acknowledgement of your culpability). Adding this basically means that although you are making them an offer, you are not acknowledging any liability to them, and your offer should not prejudice any future claims should an agreement not be reached.

 

Hope this makes sense!

[supasta1]

it certainly does. thanks for that

[supasta1]

ok i've just recieved a reply to the above letter, i can't scan it until monday but i will just quickly write what it says for now.

 

Dear miss ......

 

Thank you for your letter dated 9th april 2008. \your comments have been noted.

The banks obligations under section 77 of the consumer credit act have been fulfilled.

 

A copy of your signed loan agreement would have been given to you when the loan was agreed and if required to by a court of law, the bank is able to provide proof that you have had the benefit of the funds.

 

Recovery action will continue on your accounts until such time as acceptable repayment proposals are recieved.

 

No further charges will be applied, however interest will continue to accure as it is rightfully due to cover the cost of borrowing.

 

The bank may use external agencies to recover the debt on our behalf.

 

We are required by law to register information concerning your account with credit reference agencies under CRA full reporting.

 

The default notice has already been issued on your accounts.

 

Please submit your proposals for repayment within the next 14 days in order to prevent further action being commenced.

 

yours sincerely

 

recovery manager..........

 

I'm not really sure what to do next, should i write back to them or just wait for them to start action against me??? can they still charge me interest on a account that is in dispute and been closed for a number of years??? my girlfriend is getting very worried and wishing i never started all this with them....

[itsamomentintime]

to take any action against you in court, they would have to produce the ORIGINAL CCA in court.

 

worry not.

[paulwlton]

You may want to adapt the letter below. Not many people are aware that the Office Of Fair Trading have confirmed that a "true copy" needs to include the debtors address. So they have broken the law.

I refer to your recent letter dated XX/XX/XXXX.

 

You will see from your files that this account is “in dispute” and you have failed to comply with my s.77 Consumer Credit Act 1974 request dated XX/XX/XXXX.

 

I am writing to inform you that this dispute still stands and has not been resolved by your company.

 

 

 

As this account is in dispute and you were aware of this and are continuing to carry out collection activity, I now feel that you are in breach of your obligations under;

§ The Office of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines – ;

o “failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued”

§ The Banking Code –;

o “not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.”

§ Your Consumer Credit License

As such, I must ask you to take notice that you must cease all collection activity with immediate effect. You have failed to produce a properly executed credit agreement in line with statutory requirements and as such I dispute the entire balance of the alleged debt as it is unenforceable. As there is no signed agreement between us, you also do not have permission to continue to contact me regarding this account, either by post or by personal contact, be that by telephone or visits to my property. In fact, OFT rules and regulations clearly state that you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you. There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you persist in sending "doorstep callers" to my home, you will be reported for harassment and be liable for damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be liable for conspiring in a tort of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless. Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction from the Court.

 

I also deem any further collection activity, of any nature that involves contacting me in relation to this account, an act of personal harassment, for the reasons outlined in this letter. Please ensure that your system is updated to reflect this, as I will bring any further letters or phone calls to the attention of the Police, to whom I will make a formal statement regarding your conduct given I have already warned you your behaviour causes me to feel harassed.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by calling me, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded and used as evidence in any further formal complaint.

 

If you wish to resolve my complaint, as has been suggested in your recent letters to me, you must supply the documentation previously requested to substantiate your claims against me under the alleged agreement. Failure to do so will result in my ignoring any further letters from you and the actions outlined herein being taken in complaint against you. I will not correspond further with you regarding this issue unless you can fully substantiate your claim as I have outlined.

 

Yours faithfully

[supasta1]

ok here is a quick update, had a letter from NatWest a few days ago, i will scan it as soon as pos but for now i'l just explain the main of it.

 

It say's:-

 

I do not accept your assertion that there is no legally binding agreement in place. Section 78(1) consumer credit act 1974 provides that the customer can request a copy of the "executed agreement". By section 78 (6) consumer cedit act 1974, the bank cannot enforce the agreement until that has been supplied. But section 180 consumer credit act 1974 gives a very particular meaning of the concept of a copy of the executed agreement. It says that it means a copy in accordance with the regulations and, in particular, the copy can omit anything that the regulations authorise.

 

The relevant regulations are the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983. By regulation 3, the bank can omit from any copy of the executed agreement certain matters including, in particular, any signature box or date of signature. So the inability to supply a copy of the agreement as actually signed is not a breach of section 78. As a result the bank can provide a copy of the current terms of the agreement whenever a copy is requested under section 78.

 

Furthermore, i enclose a copy of your current account statement showing the loan monies credited to your account on 11 feb 2002. Thus we consider that the dispute has been resolved and the bank has complied with the consumer credit act 1974 and is entitled to undertake normal recovery activity in the continued absence of any repayment proposals from you....

 

However, as already stated i believe the bank is perfectly entitled to seek repayment from you and in the absence of any repayment proposals in the near future such recovery action as may be appropriate will be resumed....

 

yours sincerely....

 

So basically they are completely ignoring that i'm disputing this account, and they are clearly not bothered about proving it by showing me a copy of the SIGNED agreement, as that is the only proof i can except. So do i just leave things now or write another letter like the ones above pointing out that the account is still in dispute?? This is just like the other letters they have sent and completely ignores my points/arguements. they are soooo annoying.

 

Another thing is the day after i got the above letter i got a letter from the there collections dept threatening me with legal action, which they couldn't do without a signed agreement? But on it it said that my partner owed money for 3 different accounts and not just the loan like we thought. It states she has a loan account for £3415.01, a current account for £2022.74 and a joint account for £793.08, being suprised about this info we decided to check her credit report online. On her credit report it shows 2 accounts with NatWest, the joint account which shows as being settled, and a current account which has been defaulted with a default balance of £1700 and outstanding balance of £2022.74 and has no record of a loan account which is all we thought we owed??? Does this change evreything now then?? i'm confused as to what is going on, as far as the credit file goes there is no loan with NatWest, and they are trying to claim money for an account which the credit file says is settled?? please can someone give some much needed advice??!!

Edited May 20, 2008 by supasta1

[paulwlton]

No, they haven't complied....to comply the copy MUST contain your name and address. Write back and remind them of this.

 

Paul

[saintly_1]

I would send a SAR to Nat West asking for ALL Data that they hold on your partner as there seems to be some confusion about what is owed and on which accounts.

 

 

saint

[paulwlton]

I would send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Nat West asking for ALL Data that they hold on your partner as there seems to be some confusion about what is owed and on which accounts.

 

 

saint

 

Agreed.

[supasta1]

When u have a credit account with someone does it automatically get recorded on your credit file straight away?? Would this go in our favour then if this got to court, we deny all knowledge and point out that it has never been on the credit file, they claim it was opened in 2002?? Ok i will send a s.a.r. tomorrow. thanx for the help as always!!