Welcome Car Finance - New Agreement - quite long

[Mummy_of_Five]

it was on the car credit complaints forum

 

Car Credit Complaints

 

Hope this helps

 

Mummy

[JonCris]

It would appear that rather than closing down they are simply withdrawing the funding facility from outside dealerships whilst maintaining their own outlets

 

In other words in a time of hardship for lenders they are seeking to maximise profit by controlling not only the finance but also the sale of the product in all deals. 2 bites of the cheery I think we would call that & one that will almost certainly end in tears for them

 

Whilst on paper it makes sense I do think it's a major mistake for a HP provider to have their own sales outlets..look what happened to Yes Car Credit when Provident tried it......lost without trace........& Provident still in litigation with a multitude of owners who can't get their cars fixed

[Cat Woman]

Mummy of Five - our situation is almost identical to yours! In summary out of desperation for a vehicle in 2005 we purchased a vehicle on HP via Welcome. Ran into difficulties about 6 months into the agreement - & they were really quick - after just one missed payment - to issue a default notice - hence removing our opportunity to voluntary terminate at any point. Continued to pay with difficulty - & to date have paid £4,500 - however this doesn't take into effect the various charges/fees which have been added by them to our balance - but this is what we have physically paid. Decided enough was enough in January this year & we wrote to them stating our difficulties & that we would agree to a voluntary repo. Didn't hear anything at all from them despite ringing them on several occasions. We were then informed that our account had been transferred to the collections dept who we should communicate with. Anyway, to cut a long story short, they have asked us to sign a new agreement for 60 months (I think this totals another £8,000 with the interest added). Have made a payment of £150 to their collections office in order to stop the situation apparently going to their legal dept. Not heard anything else from them for a month - rang the local office & was told that the agreement would be dealt with elsewhere - ? where. We don't want to sign another 5 year agreement for a vehicle that probably won't last that long. We are in limbo - with a car they don't want back and yet we can't afford to pay for!!!

[Mummy_of_Five]

yeah its practically identical cat woman, all except we haven't had a default notice (yet) they wanted us to sign for another 60 months paying £141 which is £8460 extra on what we have already paid £7289.88. So wanting you to pay £150 would be more than £8,000!

 

Lets know who you get on with them. Good Luck

 

Mummy_of_Five

[Sparklez30]

Why won't they accept the voluntary reposition cat woman?

[Cat Woman]

I have no idea why they won,t accept the voluntary repo. They seem to have a high turnover of staff at the local office which we were using. The man I was dealing with is no longer there & he said at the time of writing in January that it would be difficult for them to take the car back - it would mean them filling in an ???IMB docket??? & would probably take around a month - but here we are almost 4 months later and still nothing's happened (by the way we have only paid the one payment of £150 since last November). I just don't know what's going on with them.

[Sparklez30]

I'm affraid I don't know much about it - I was under the impression that as long as you'd been paying for 2/3 of the contract length you could hand it back and cancel the agreement?

 

You might be best to start your own thread and then someone more knowledgable than me would hopefully advise.

 

I would definately not sign a new agreement if I were you?

 

(I also don't think they can give you a default notice after only 1 missed payment but again I'm not the most knowledgable so hopefully someone else will respond to that part too!)

[Cat Woman]

As far as I understand it, as we have paid more than one third of the balance, Welcome would need to obtain a court order to acquire the vehicle. However, why they won't take us up on our offer of voluntary repo is unclear. Also, we probably dropped ourselves in it re. the default notice. We ran into problems just prior to Xmas 06 and let them know that we were going to voluntary terminate. We weren't able to meet the Xmas payment and lo and behold a default notice arrived shortly afterwards thereby removing our right to voluntary terminate and only be liable for up to half the balance. They just don't want to take the vehicle back whichever way you look at it. Buying on HP was the worst thing we have ever done - we had never done it before this car and will never ever do it again.

[JonCris]

Getting clients who are having trouble in meeting their payments to sign a new agreement is now a common ploy of Welcome. - If you do you lose the protection of sec127 of the CCA74 which was revoked in the CCA2006 which is the legalisation your new agreement would be governed by

 

Welcome are probably refusing to repo because 1st the cars worth a lot less than the outstanding sum & they have more chance of being paid more money if you still have it to worry about - and 2nd they are hoping to panic the OP into signing a new agreement which will involve them paying considerably more than the original.

 

It is also a distinct possibility that they know their present agreement is unenforceable in law as I understand their old CCA 74 agreements have already been challenged with some success

 

If you did sign their new agreement there are various legal arguments that can be used to challenge their behaviour & invalidate this new agreement which involve things such as coercion, unfair relationship & even exorbitant credit bargain - but for any of those scenarios to be successful would be reliant on a judge getting out the right side of the bed because if not who knows how a DJ might find

 

Don't sign & more than likely they will accept what payments you can afford or if not they will have to obtain a CCJ at which point you can say to the court you offered voluntary repo & the court won't be happy that they still sort a CCJ

 

The court could even order that Welcome take the car & dispose of it at the best price possible then return to the court to submit an amended claim - & if it was sold for great deal less than is owed the court might ask if it was grossly overvalued in the 1st place & adjust the amount outstanding or even cancel it all together - very dodgy ground for Welcome & one they won't want to get into

[Sparklez30]

Ah someone more knowledgable didn't take long to pop along at all

 

Thanks JonCris - it does not surprise me at all that Welcome intentions are not to assist!

[Mummy_of_Five]

I checked today and Welcome got their CCA letter on monday 21st so hopefully i will either have my agreement and things or not soon. My counting gives them til the 8th of May (anyone get different) for the 2 days plus the 12 days.

 

Will keep everyone updated.

 

Mummy_of_Five

[Mummy_of_Five]

Well we haven't recieved our CCA yet and times up! Not really sure on what to do now.

 

Had a phone call from the nice lady at LMB at the end of last month asking for payment. We told her that we had sent a cheque to them for £150 (the amount we told them we could afford to pay). She said that the payment nedded to be for £285 the proper monthly payment and could we cancel the cheque and make a card payment. Hubby said no as we haven't got our own cheque book and a family memeber wrote it for us and we gave them the money. Tried telling hubby about making the full payment and he butted in and asked why the number comes up on his mobile as our old Welcome branch, she got a little flustered and he said is it because you are an inhouse collections. Again she got flustered and admitted they were and changed the subject and said we needed to make up the payment for the month somehow. He said we have paid them what we can afford and that is all because we were waiting on a CCA reply. Again she got a bit flustered and asked why we'd CCA'd them - told her we got advice from the CAB (we know someone who works for them and he gave us a letter that they send for CCA privatley not though the CAB) and that is what they advised us to do she them went quite and finnished the call. Not heard nothing form them since, but I am expecting a call from them on Tuesday as this is when my hubby gets his benefits and they seem to call every 2 weeks on this day expecting him to give them money.

 

Will keep everyone updated on my progress with Welcome.

 

Mummy_of_Five

[Mummy_of_Five]

Hi guys

 

I have just sent a CCA request of to Welcome as after a year of nothing they have decided to start harassing us for payments again. What documents should be in the reply we receive from them?

 

Also a very dumb question - what is a "true original copy"? how will i know it if it is the true copy?

 

Thanks

 

Mummy of 5

[dx100uk]

you should get a copy of your agreement and a staement of the a/c

 

there are plenty of threads on agreements and what they should look like

 

use the search in the blue bar above

 

dx

[Mummy_of_Five]

Hi

 

My husband and I, like lots of others on here are having LOTS of problems with Welcome Car Finance.

 

Long Story fairly short

 

April 2005 needed a bigger family car. Seen an Espace in a local garage. Went in and got the car on finance with Welcome through a "friend" of the garage owner. Thought everything was fine and dandy apart from the APR but needs must so we got the car. In May 2005 husband had a very serious brain operation and I had to leave work to look after him and our then 3 children (I was also pregnant with #4). Tried to use the PPI but was told we couldn't as we weren't eligible to use it as I was working for a temping agency, then was told we should of never got the finance because of this too. Needless to say we missed payment had charges added ect and couldn't afford the monthly payments. Had loads of problems and they then wanted us to sign another agreement for the balance left over another 60 months. Didn't sign because I had seen the type of tactics they use because of this site. Asked for the CCA then but never got it. Didn't pay for over a year as we couldn't afford the payments and no one contacted us about it. Now being rang everyday for payments - husband gave his card details to them as he was told could contact them to make the payment and if we couldn't pay they wouldn't take the money, ha ha ha they took the money. We contacted them to ask for the payment to be returned but they basically said there was no chance. Decieded to CCA them.

 

We received a copy of the loan statement with all our payments and charges and a printed copy of the agreement. Pictures by mummy_of_Five - Photobucket

 

Is this agreement enforceable as they have added the acceptance fee to the rest and I think it has then getting interest added on it? We paid them for 3 years and missed the fourth, as explained above, but we still owe them just over 6 grand.

 

All help and advice would be gratefully received as I think they are trying to take us for a ride with the amount we still owe.

 

Thanks

 

Mummy_of_five (Lyndsey)

[postggj]

morning mummy of five

 

so let battle comence

 

to begin with, was the finance in just you or joint names

do you still have the car

 

we told you that the ppi was not paying out, welcome or was it direct group

were you in full time work at the start of the agreement as you mention temping

have you any ppi paperwork or did you receive any

 

have they defaulted you and if so ,did you get a default notice

did you pay any deposit

 

ive noticed the aceptance fee at 195 quid

the norm is 75 quid

 

i smell undeclared commision payments

Edited April 20, 2009 by postggj

[Mummy_of_Five]

Hi

 

In reply to your questions

 

Yeah the finance is in joint names - mine aas the main applicant and my husbands coz he can drive and I cant (was told i had to be the main applicant as I was the one working)

 

Yeah we still have the car - but it has had numerous problems that need fixing.

 

Welcome told us we couldn't use the PPI as we didn't have any other contacts to try to use it. I was working through an employment agency but I had been working at the same place for 8 months and I wasn't forseeing leaving (apart from having matenity leave when I had the baby) but my husband needed to have a brain operation and the compan I was working for couldn't leave the position open for an unknown amount of time (I was the secretary). I was working 35 hrs a week. We were told that getting the PPI and the other stuff would "practically guarantee" us getting the finance.

 

No not had a default notice or been defaulted as far as we know.

 

No we didn't pay a deposit.

 

I dont think we got any paperwork for the PPI. I have uploaded the things we have got as we have all the original paperwork, but just didn't want welcome to know that. Pictures by mummy_of_Five - Photobucket

 

Thanks for your help

 

Mummy_of_Five (Lyndsey)

[postggj]

sorry to ask again as i need this to be right

 

it was welcome who said they would not pay the ppi

 

were you ever in touch with direct group

 

was your hubby full time before the op

[andie_303]

Postggj - welcome HP agreements are £195 acceptance - £75 on unsecured loans.

 

Another case of welcome deciding who can and can't claim - have you asked Welcome to therefore void the insurance and refund all premiums and interest paid as they have declared you cannot use it??

[andie_303]

Mummy,

 

Can you look closely at your agreement for me as I cant see it too clearly - is there anywhere (normally in tiny little writing) that says something along the lines of "interest will be calculated on the total amount of credit outstanding and the acceptance fee......"

[Mummy_of_Five]

Hi

 

We have never spoke to anyone else apart from the local branch of Welcome regarding the PPI. They were the ones that said we couldn't use it. I didn't even know there was another lot of people to talk to with them.

 

We did ask them to cancel it as we couldn't use it and we had to write a letter to them requesting this but I don't think it ever was cancelled.

 

No hubby wasn't working at the time because we needed someone to mind our kids, he also was signed of sick because of nerve damage in his arm which made him unable to feel hot things and cold things hurt him.

 

As far as I can see there is nothing on the ones that they have sent in reply to the CCA - it does refer to T&C's on the reverse of the agreement but obviously it is a print out without anything on the back (they didn't send the T&C's with the info). As far as I can see on the T&C's we have from the original thigs there is nothing that refers to - interest will be calculated on the total amount of credit outstanding and the acceptance fee......"

 

Mummy_of_five

Edited April 20, 2009 by Mummy_of_Five

[andie_303]

Hiya mummy - if it does not say on the face of the agreement that interest is being calculated on the total credit outstanding and the accpetnace fee you have a case for unenforcable agreement under Wilson V First County Trust.

 

I will find the letter I wrote to them and you can use that - send it to them special delivery to their head office in nottingham.

 

You also need to complain in writing to Direct Group they are in Doncaster and Norwich Union thats Dept 33 The Warren in Worthing saying that Welcome have decided you cannot claim on a policy and they have done this without forwarding your claim to be decided by the people that actually underwrite it. Welcome should not be deciding who can and cannot claim.

 

You then need to write a 2nd letter to Welcome saying your were mis-sold your policy as you do not qualify to use it as you were a "temp" and this was not told to you at the time it would be an exlusion. Demand the refund of all premiums and interest paid.

[andie_303]

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am writing to you with regard to the above account. In reading the documents your company has provided I have discovered what I believe and can prove to be a breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 hence rendering the above account unenforceable.

 

I have discovered from your companies paperwork that whilst my agreement shows an acceptance fee of £195 that is calculated into the overall loan total your company has failed to disclose on this document that the £195 has had an interest rate applied. This contravenes s.61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and has been proved in court through Wilson V First County Trust.

 

I would also say that I feel your company has deliberately mislead their representations as the acceptance fee is clearly shown as a separate figure on the agreement. I will be referring this matter to the Financial Services Authority as I deem this to be a direct attempt to mislead the customer.

 

Therefore as this account is now unenforceable I will be cancelling my future direct debits to your company with immediate effect and request a refund of all payments made to your company before this date.

 

As this account is now in dispute you may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment. You may not add further interest or charges to the above account nor are you to pass this account to a third party.

Lastly you may not register any information in respect of this account with a credit reference agency nor are you allowed to issue a default with regards to this account.

 

If my request is not complied with within 14 days I will have no further option to file this matter in the courts.

 

I expect a swift response to this matter

 

Yours Faithfully

[andie_303]

The letter to Direct Group needs to be addressed to Sarah Valentine Director of Compliance.

The letter to Norwich Union needs to be addressed to Sue Dewey.

 

Make sure you tell them in your complaint that you tried to initate a claim with Welcome and was told by Welcome you could not claim - you were not told they were not allowed to make this decisions nor were you informed of the existence of Direct Group or Norwich Union and their relationship to this policy.

[Mummy_of_Five]

Thanks andie_303. Will get them wrote and sent away tomorrow.

 

Will post up the replies when and if i get any.

 

Thanks for your help guys

 

Mummy_of_five