Welcome Car Finance - New Agreement - quite long

[Mummy_of_Five]

Hi

 

Was wondering if anyone can help me with regards to Welcome Car Finance?

 

In the begining of April 2005 my husband and I got a car from a small garage and the finance was supplied by a "friend" of the owner at Welcome. Everything ok until around August 2005 when I had to leave work (husband was poorly and he didn't work, he looked after our kids, he had a major brain op and I had to leave to look after him). Tried to use the PPI we were sold (now we know it was mis-sold) and was told we couldn't use the PPI and we shouldn't of even got the finance for the car as I was a long term temp so wasn't in "full time work" as I could be finished anytime. Asked for it to be removed because it was useless. We struggled to pay the monthly payments. Missed a few payments and started to pay by cash at our local office. Half of these cash payments had never been put on the account.

 

Now we have had a lot of changes and financialy we are having severe difficulties. We have asked to pay £150 per month (payment should be £284 pm). Had some contact with the local office, who where nice about the payments but said it had been refered to the collections deptment. Today had a telephone call from them institing that we should sign a new argeement, by monday (31st) at the latest, saying we could pay £141 per month for another 60 months. This take the amount we still owe to over £8,000 we still owe just over £6,000 because of the missed payments and the ones that didn't make it on ot the account. but have already paid over £7,000 and the car is now only worth around £3-4,000.

 

Should we agree to the new agreement or should we try sending an S.A.R to them to find out the charges and try to claim these back first? We have copies of the "Legal Agreement" sent to us from Welcome when we first joined (i think its a credit agreement but i'm not sure)

 

Any help would be greatly received and appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

Kind Regards

Mummy_of_Five

[dpick]

Hi Just my personal opinion but I would not sign any NEW agreement, this sounds iffy. Can you post original copy of agreement (with personal details removed) so that peps can give opinion if the agreement is OK. Asking you to sign another agreement sounds to me like they are up to one of two things get you into even more debt with them or the original agreement was not properly executed and could be unenforceable so now trying to get a fully enforceable agreement with you.

 

all the best dpick:)

[JonCris]

Mummy DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SIGN their 'new' agreement.

 

It's a very well known ploy, by Welcome & some other lenders to get existing customers to sign a new/replacement agreement which as it would fall outside of the 74 CCA & within the 2006 CCA would mean you losing the protection of section 127 of the 74 Act.

 

Section 127 of the 74 Act being the most comprehensive & probably the best part of the old act in the matter of consumer protection - & which this government, that claims to protect the consumer, has removed from the new act means you would be at the complete mercy of the court should you at anytime dispute the actions of the lender. That's usually the reason they want you to sign another:mad:

 

Strongly suggest you have your current agreement checked as you may find, as many others have already, that it is unenforceable.

[Mummy_of_Five]

Hi

 

Hope this works as i'm not very good with things like this. Flickr: Photos from mum_of_5 . Just click on the picutre you want to look at then the little magnifier with all sizes wrote by it.

 

I have put on pictures of the agreement we was sent when we first opened the account with Welcome. Copies of the Demands and Needs Statement - shows what we have and have not got on the agreement - shows we have payment protection, shortfall extra and mechanical breakdown cover. The statement of price with all the 3 things on it and the monthly price and APR - this is dated 06/04/05. These were all sent in one welcome pack with leaflets for PPI and Shortfall Extra. The covering letter is dated 08/04/05, The day we signed the agreement.

 

I have also put on the welcome letter from Welcome. this shows we have Payment Protection, Mechanical Breakdown cover but not shortfall extra insurance - this is dated 11/04/05.

 

There is no shortfall extra insurance on the agreement but there is an Hire-Purchase Option Fee of £50, that has to be paid extra on the last payment if you choose to buy the goods (T & C 4. b and c). I cant beleive they expect you to pay an extra £50 to buy the goods after all the time and money you have paid on it lol.

 

Any help by anyone that knows about things like this would be great. What should we say when they ring about the new agreement? any ideas? Should we tell them we are having the agreement looked at or not?

 

Thanks for all your help

 

Mummy_of_Five

[JonCris]

Can you explain again why they want you to sign a new agreement??

[Mummy_of_Five]

Yeah sure.

 

They want us to sign a new contract because we have had some financial difficulties since my husband had had his operation in 2005 but we have struggled to pay the monthly payments to Welcome as well as other bills and lately because of xmas we have had real difficulties paying anything and we missed some payments and then asked them if we could pay £150 per month for 3 - 6 months while we try to sort out our money situation.

 

They have said that the only way we can reduce the payments is if we sign a new contract for £141 for another 60 months, or we have to make the full payments each month and make up the payments we have missed or have the car taken away.

 

My hubby said to the woman on the phone we have been looking in to the PPI situation (we think we were mis-sold) online and her attitude just changed she went from being all nice and calling him Mike to snotty and calling him Mr ????. This is when she said if we didn't sign the new contract by monday (31st), make up the money that we have missed and start paying full payments or they would just come and take the car away and she strongly reccomended we sign the contract.

 

Hope this helps. Thanks

 

Mummy_of_Five

[JonCris]

She is talking rubbish.

 

They can re-schedule the debt without you having to sign any new agreement. The only have to write to you confirming their agreement to the new arrangement.

 

Can you tell me how much you paid & how much you now owe

 

Clearly this 'woman' likes to issue threats & my advice is to call her back & get her to confirm what she said previously whilst at the same time recording the conversation

[Mummy_of_Five]

Hiya

 

According to the Credit Agrement, the amount payable is £13,662.72.

 

When checking my credit file on the Credit Expert site the thing from Welcome says we owe £6,478 updated on 17/02/05. This means we have paid £7,184 in 35 months. We have 13 months left to pay, the monthly payments of £284.67 = £3,700.32 plus they say we have missed nearly £1,500 (we don't think it is that much but we have had payments in cash go missing from the branch) that makes £5,200.32. That leaves £1,278 extra that we still owe for some reason.

 

We were also paying £300 per month to catch up on the money we owe.

 

Any help you can give is very appreciated and greatfully received.

 

Kind regards Mummy_of_Five

[dpick]

Hi I think that an SAR is in order this will give you all information on what charges have been applied to the account, if any charges have been applied to the account you can reclaim them and lower you balance. If you had signed the new agreement then even though they are required to keep your account info I am sure they would have "LOST" it.

 

link to template letter for SAR

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

 

all the best dpick:)

[JonCris]

Hiya

 

According to the Credit Agrement, the amount payable is £13,662.72.

 

When checking my credit file on the Credit Expert site the thing from Welcome says we owe £6,478 updated on 17/02/05. This means we have paid £7,184 in 35 months. We have 13 months left to pay, the monthly payments of £284.67 = £3,700.32 plus they say we have missed nearly £1,500 (we don't think it is that much but we have had payments in cash go missing from the branch) that makes £5,200.32. That leaves £1,278 extra that we still owe for some reason.

 

We were also paying £300 per month to catch up on the money we owe.

 

Any help you can give is very appreciated and greatfully received.

 

Kind regards Mummy_of_Five

 

 

Well on that case the 'Lady' is even more of a Li*r because for them to 'take' the car they need a Courts permission which they certainly won't get by Monday or any other Monday for the next couple of months for that matter

 

Now suggest the following: Rather than send a SAR write & ask if you can have a copy of your original agreement as you have been advised to check the T's & C's against the 'new' one..

 

Do this even if you already have a copy of the original & don't tell them if asked

[JonCris]

Let's teach them a lesson for trying to mislead a victim of their, some would say, extortionate lending rates

[Mummy_of_Five]

Thaks for your help on this.

 

Right first thing tomorrow I will write a letter asking for our agreement, but we haven't even got a new agreement so I dont know how we were supposed to have it signed by tomorrow! Any Advice what to put in the letter or should I make it as simple as just saying can we have a copy of our agreement? What happens if they haven't got it? Then what do we do?

 

Thanks again for all your help

 

Mummy_of_Five

[Sparklez30]

This is the letter I used as have been helping a friend with her welcome problems http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/118145-r-subject-access-request.html#post1198765

 

It pretty much asks for everything they have on you! They sent us everything including statements, manual intervention and contracts

 

did they refund the whole of the mis sold PPI

[JonCris]

Sorry to disagree Sparkie but I wouldn't advise sending a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) just yet. I'm advising that the OP just write, or even phone & ask for a copy of their old agreement so they can check it against the new one.

 

This should have the immediate effect of letting them know they ain't dealing with a pushover &/or the OP has sort legal advice - this might/should cause them to pull their knecks in

 

The OP can save the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for when it gets a little messy

[Mummy_of_Five]

Hi everyone

 

Sent my letter today asking them for a copy of our signed agreement.

 

The woman rang again telling my hubby about signing he new agreement but he told her he wouldn't be signing anything and that we would just have to try and make the full payment. She then told him that he would have to pay this months money as it was due on the 28th and he said that there was no way we could make that money up today she wanted payment over the phone) she then told him that they would just come and take the car for none payment. He told her that no one can touch the car without going to court first as we have paid over £7,000, she then said oh right then it will get transfered to a different depatment then and closed the call. Don't think we should her from her again now.

 

Mummy_of_Five

[JonCris]

Good result then - so far

[Sparklez30]

Jon feel free to disagree a standard letter sounds easier I don't think I really took in what you said just saw the link to the other SAR template and wanted to link to the SAR request that we had lots of luck with in relation to Welcome.

 

In fact of all my requests they have sent by far the most info including manual intervention and even paperwork showing how much commission their staff earnt, interesting reading! lol.

 

Mummy glad to see things are heading in the right direction now, knowing your rights really helps!

[JonCris]

Sparklez I don't disagree about the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) I just think it's a little premature & should be saved for later if Welcome starts to get stroppy - it isn't always a good idea to fire all the bullets in the gun at the 1st confrontation

[Mummy_of_Five]

Checked today and my letter asking for the agreement was delivered on the 1/4/08 from the batley office to welcome. So hopfully we will hear something soon.

 

Will keep you all posted.

 

Mummy_of_Five

[Mummy_of_Five]

Well today I have received a copy of our statement since we started our agreement in April 2005. They have called it a loan statement when its for a HP agreement (don't know if they call it something else) but they have added on £917 in "Capitalisation" and have had some "Fee Reversals" when we are sure we have paid them and not got the money beck or had a direct debt fail. It doesn't say anything about the PPI we pay and the charges range from anything from £5 to £50.19, so they are all different.

 

What do you think we should do now? Send a proper CCA or a SAR?

 

Seems like something is a bit wrong somewhere.

 

Any advice would be great

 

Mummy_of_Five

[JonCris]

Now send a CCA request (NOT a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) not forgetting to include the £1. You will find a template on the site.

 

That puts the account in dispute should they try & reposes the car as previously threatened

 

Also they are required to supply a 'true copy' together with a statement of account

[Sparklez30]

The statements we received back were impossible to understand too - adjustments all over the place particularly on the one that had been settled by an additional loan (and it appears they took too much from the second loan to pay off the first finance as at the end there is a credit balance of almost £500 and then an adjustment after the agreement ended to clear the balance!).

 

I'm following your thread with interest and comparing notes

[JonCris]

If the statements are not understandable to the applicant, namely you, then they have not complied with the CCA request

[Mummy_of_Five]

sent CCA on the 17th - not ben dilivered yet though.

 

Hubby keeps getting phone calls from LMB, we don't know who these are. They say they are from one place but the number comes up as our local welcome branch.

 

When they receive the CCA does this mean that the account is in dispute? As they keep contacting us for a full payment of £300 - isn't due til the 28th. going to try to pay the contracted payment of £284.67 coz we can't really afford the extra. Am i right in thinking if the account is in dispute they can not keep ringing for payment?

 

Also heard that the car finance part of Welcome is closing - what does this mean for the car finance accounts?

 

Any help is greatfully received. Thanks for all your help so far.

 

Mummy_of_Five

[JonCris]

Correct the can't but the nummties they employ are to stupid to know that

 

Where did you hear about them closing got a link?