Section 48 Notices??

[Complex, God]

Is there anything specific i need to look out for if i refuse to pay back rent due to one of these not being issued, say for instance wording on a letter, conversations with landlord, anything like that??

[ShortlyTdwarf]

Section 48: Notification by the landlord of address for service of notices.

Basically the law calls for the name and address of the landlord to be issued to the tenant for the purposes of serving notice by the tenant. The tenant must have an address in England and Wales for the landlord where they can serve notices.

For the purposes of Section 48 of The Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 name and address of the landlord should be included in the tenancy agreement and it should be stated that this is in line with the relevant act etc.

As the courts see it, rent can not be demanded from a tenant unless they have an address and name to which they can pay the rent. Therefore, as a landlord you can not demand rent from the tenant if you have failed to issue them with notice of your address.

At the end of the day a landlord can not serve notice of possession on a tenant whom they have not given notice of their address to. i.e. the tenant says to the judge I did not know where to send the rent to! Without notice, the rent is not lawfully payable.

[Complex, God]

What if they have never stated they wanted rent paid and no tenancy, verbal or written exists between myself and the agent? If all they have simply done is confirm that we are staying in the property?

[ShortlyTdwarf]

Ok, now you are getting into a whole new realm of tenancy that is largely un-legislated for the purposes of an agreement.

 

A tenancy can be either written or verbal. To be able to make a verbal agreement stand up in court, the landlord would need to produce an independant witness to the agreement who can state any terms that the landlord and tenant agreed to in the original tenancy. This is a very hard road to travel for any landlord as it is usually one person's word against another's. It's always recommended for both tenant and landlord to get the agreement down in writing.

 

More detail would be useful in this case, to be able to advise more fully.

 

Is the letting with the property owner or via an agency?

Did they give you a stated amount of rent prior to you moving in?

Do you have any correspondence between yourself and the landlord?

Does this state any terms or amounts of rent?

 

Anything you can give will help in this case. If you e-mail any letters you have to me removing any personal details I will see what i can come up with.

 

Having said that, the rules on section 48 notices still apply, and they would be hard pushed to get rent via a court without it.

[Complex, God]

Right, its a long one but i'll explain best i can.

 

A year ago i moved in to live with a friend of mine in my current property, shortly after we moved in the shop underneath our flat was sold by its owner, we were informed of this by the new owners of the shop, an estate agents ironically, anyway, they informed us that the flat was due to be included as part of the shop with no added charge, but because the flat was rented serperatley and had a different lease the letting agents that had taken over had no interest in the flat, months passed without so much as a squeak from either the old landlord or the new agents, i spoke with the estate agents and they said that the lease on the flat ran out in November so chances are we would not hear anything until then.

 

In september my flat mate, who was on the original tenancy, moved out and i stayed in the flat while i looked for somewhere else, eventually i decided to stay and see what came of the new landlords.

 

November passed and no contact, most of December passed and no contact until a letter appeared addressed to my old flat mate asking if he was still living in the property, i decided to inform the new landlord who i was and what had happened before i got a chance, on 31st Decemeber a gentleman came round on behalf of the landlord to see what was happening, i explained the situation to him, he took our details and went back to the letting agents saying he would inform us of their decision. I heard nothing until the end of January when we received a letter informing us that the agents were not happy but had decided we could stay in the property if we wished to, NO mention of rent, just that we needed to let them know or vacate the property! I went back to them and explained that before i commited to staying in the flat i wanted maintenence issues on the flat dealt with, a few letters went back and forth explaining what the problems were, eventually the gentleman came out to inspect and take pictures of the property, this was about 3 weeks ago, again, no mention of rent, it was more a case of getting a tenancy agreement signed and in place, which i refused to do until work had been agreed! In the mean time, we discovered that the wiring was illegal throughout the house and made them aware of this, knowing full well they could not issue a tenancy without a valid test certificate which they would not get, (this was confirmed by 2 contractors who visited the property). As of today the only verbal commitment i have "made" if you like is that "IF" they bring the flat up to standard i would consider paying them rent and stay in the property, however nothing other than that has been suggested, i have checked through letters and nothing they have sent has asked us to pay rent or mentioning that the tenancy was continuing from where they left off.

 

A few things...

 

I was never named on the original tenancy, i am, or have been technically "squatting"

 

I have responded to each letter within 5 days, yet its almost 3 months since they contacted us and nothing has been done.

 

I have never agreed to pay any rent, sign any tenancy agreement or made any verbal contract, that i am aware of, with regards to staying in the flat.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, if you need any other info i will help, i will try and dig out the letters if you need them.

 

Thanks

[ShortlyTdwarf]

Wow. A hugely complex course of events. However, fairly simple at the end of the day, despite the fact it took me three readings to digest it properly. lol

 

As you say, you are technically squatting. And as such they are not obliged to let you stay in the property. However, as they have offered you the property to let then getting you out now could prove vexing for them.

I can't believe that the new owners have not asked for rent in any way. It sounds pretty much like the details of the tenancy haven't been fully passed on to the new agents and that any documents were filed and forgotten about, with them coming to light at some clearout or change of filing system.

As far as a tenancy agreement goes, they would have to sort out the flat to a good standard and have electrical and gas checks done and any works sorted out before any agreement could be entered into on their part.Since they have never asked you for any rent, nor have you agreed to pay anything to them, then as far as I can see there is nothing stopping you from staying put until they either fix the problems and issue an agreement or have you evicted. It may be that they are dealing with the prospect of having taken on a property that is in need of extensive renovation and are considering whether it is worth doing or selling/leasing to a different agent. Or they could be having problems getting a quote for the work that they are happy with before doing the work itself. Either way, I wouldn't worry myself sick about it, though I would be inclined to make sure you have a contingency plan for somewhere else to go to if they decide to evict.

Going back to your original question, since you are not in any contract with them and they have not asked for rent, nor given you an agreement with the section 48 clause in it you are under no obligation to pay any back rent for any period that you have lived there, even once they issue and you sign an agreement. As stated in the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, without a section 48 notice rent is not lawfully payable.

 

I hope this answers any questions you have had. If you need help at any stage just post here again. And good luck.