Fuel Protest

[JOSH_IOU]

Its appreciated as well.

[iwgunter]

I think driving around the M25 would do far more you can drive at 50 or 40 without breaking the law, do that on a friday or monday and see what happens.

You'd probably crash into the person in front of you. Have you driven on the M25 on a weekday before ?

[JOSH_IOU]

hi iwgunter.

Do you have any suggestions?

 

I think at this stage it may be worth posting a few however i hope our link to the above forum brings support.

 

No reason why we cant do both if there is enough support.

[iwgunter]

I have read through here and TA'07 and entirely agree with the people who say that nothing we do will get the Government to reduce the fuel price to a sensible level.

 

The Government keeps creating pointless jobs and the public owned sectors get bogged down in paperwork. I'm sure this is to reduce the unemployment level for their figures only. To afford to pay these poinless wages, the Government must increase taxes on us and the best way is through guilty pleasures. Driving, drinking, smoking, holidays, etc.

 

To be honest, I don't think there is a way out of it, other than following the example one Mr Guy Fawkes showed us all those years ago.

 

I wouldn't mind paying out £1.15 per litre at Sainsburys if there was another way to travel. I would need to get 3 different buses each way to/from work and it'd take me over an hour and cost £2 each way, whereas driving in my car takes 15 mins and costs me about £0.60 in diesel each way.

 

I'd love to buy a hybrid car or own an electric one, but I'm not in a position to be able to buy a new car, so I guess I'll just have to continue bending over and taking whatever the Government want.

 

I keep saying Government becuase it's not down to G. Brown but every Government there has ever been, pretty much.

[JOSH_IOU]

Wish I could say I'd love to buy a new car.

I cant ive never been able to aford a new car.

 

Due to my family life when i was at school i never really got much out of school. Looking back i wish some of the help that there is in schools these days were available when I was there.

 

Purhaps I would be able to form better sentences without having to look at the bbc webwise.

 

Maybe I would not find it hard to keep a minimum wage job if I did not have memory difficulties. But we have to look at what we have and what we can do with it.

 

You no CAG is a great tool if only it was used to its best advantage.

 

We could maybe perhaps given the right support influence government workers and a few of the grassroots Labour Party supporters into lobbying there mp's and Gordon Brown.

 

They are scared of the power of the internet and we are not using it to our advantage at the moment and we should be. This is the first step though.

[duntisdave]

Yeah, he's going to hold off the 2p rise for 6 months, THEN he's going to raise it 2.5p. "Oh thank you oh wise one - I'm truly stupid and I truly believe that you are helping us out."

 

Bah!

 

The one think I can't stand is to watch the stupidity of people who applaud the raising of fuel duty in the name of 'the environment'.

 

If raising the price of fuel ACTUALLY got people off of the roads then all fine and dandy - but......IT DOESN'T - now, in my job, if I continually do something that doesn't work, and then keep doing it, I would be sacked (quite rightly). Usually, if I try something that doesn't work, I try something else, and so-on until I find something that DOES work.

 

There are more cars on the road year on year DESPITE the stupid rises in fuel costs. It therefore does not work. Now, either we are being lied to (my prefered assumption) or we truly do have dunces in the cabinet.

 

I, for one, do not believe these people to be stupid.

 

The problem is people HAVE to drive! I don't know any one who drives just for pleasure any more. Therfore, the more the chancellor raises fuel duty, the more income he will raise. He will not prevent any one driving, because ther isn't a viable alternative. This governments answer to everything is to try and make it more expensive. All that happens is the working class man(woman) is being priced out of existence. I have had enough of being treated like this by people who are supposed to have our best interests at heart. All MP's are in it for themselves. As recent news items have proved, The government are as crooked as thieves. We need to get them out of office now!

[petethemanc]

The French have the right idea, if the government are taking the proverbial, then they let it be known. I for one would be for any protest, in any way shape or form.

[IS IT ME?]

You are right in one way, to drive slowly around the M25 is not against the law nor is driving along the sea front at dover.

I for one would do this as I have had enougth now.

So lets see.

tried to post some thing on the transport web site.

let me know when and where, as if no one did any thing were would this site be???????????????????????????

[dave]

The problem is people HAVE to drive! I don't know any one who drives just for pleasure any more. Therfore, the more the chancellor raises fuel duty, the more income he will raise. He will not prevent any one driving, because ther isn't a viable alternative. This governments answer to everything is to try and make it more expensive. All that happens is the working class man(woman) is being priced out of existence. I have had enough of being treated like this by people who are supposed to have our best interests at heart. All MP's are in it for themselves. As recent news items have proved, The government are as crooked as thieves. We need to get them out of office now!

 

Quite right - that's why it annoys me when people believe the rubbish about high fuel costs being good for the environment. It could be 15 quid a litre and we'd still have to buy it - there would still be more cars on the road year on year.

[dave]

I think there needs to be a huge, well co-ordinated fuel price protest - go slows, blockades etc...

 

Would starting a forum for just this issue help do you think? (it probably won't be here on CAG though)

[fergal71]

I think disturbances of whatever form should be regional, then people can support easily and I think it would have greater effect....especially if it was publicised through out the country... if anyone has friends in the media...

 

driving slowly means nothing too people if we have template a4 posters that we put in car windows so people know what we are doing maybe... they will support also.. the masses can change things if they all want for similar things... all people need sometimes is a leader...

 

let us regionalise various protests, come up with when, where and how(legally) and publicise for maximum effect... I am all for marching on government but we need a comprehensive list of proposals we want them too look at immediately or we take action in to our own hands... it seems as has been discussed this is all they listen too... 10,000 marching on no 10 downing street would make people sit up and see things need to change...

[Castlebest]

If anyone is in any doubt about the false British political claims about transport and the environment all you have to do is look to America, where are all of our "green" government led initiatives? at least Bush is now playing catch up with the rest of the world and we will no doubt have to buy the technology off them.

 

White House explains Bush's hydrogen car plan | Science Blog

[rvar]

I'm pretty incensed by the cost of fuel (and Road Tax). Here in rural Devon the public transport is poor. The nearest train station is 10 miles away and single carriage dirty trains run every two hours and take forever !

 

But I do not think this type of fuel protest will work. Potentially motorists are a very powerful political lobby, even if just a small percentage were active it would make a huge difference.

 

I am an ex Civil Servant who spent 25 years in Whitehall, 15 of them at the Department for Transport ! Ministers are interested in one thing, votes. The best way to get rid of the current mob is to elect someone else. In the meantime, I would target Government MPs with small majorities. You only need maybe a hundred people to write to an MP in this position to get them to put pressure on the Government. If enough MPs get worried about their seats the message will get through.

 

At the end of the day, the Government has to pay for its spending, it has promised not to raise the basic rate of income tax so it has to find the money from somewhere. They will claim if you cut fuel duty you will have to raise some other tax to pay for hospitals, schools etc.

 

What gets me is this Government wastes so much money, I wouldn't mind so much if they actually used our money wisely.

 

Best regards

[JOSH_IOU]

I think there needs to be a huge, well co-ordinated fuel price protest - go slows, blockades etc...

 

Would starting a forum for just this issue help do you think? (it probably won't be here on CAG though)

 

Hi Dave, Yes I think it would.

 

And It would help due to CAG's position in the search engines to have a link back to this thread.

 

I'm trying to get my phone line back on after I had my phone line stopped for no particular reason. So if i don't respond to every post its because i cant piggy back on a connection.

[Templehead]

I would help,

 

price of diesel in herefordshire is currently 1.20.9. Going up 7p a month i reckon. Just got a new car that was better on the fuel as well, waste of money as any savings are blown in fuel tax!

[revolting peasant]

This is MADNESS!

 

I agree that the price of fuel is excessive BUT I rely on my car to get to work and when I get there I drive for a living.

 

The one thing the government knows is that we cannot sustain a prolonged campaign against them because if we try to do so the only people who will suffer is ourselves.

 

Blockade roads, do slow drives, do anything you want but within a matter of days it will be US - ALL OF US who are suffering the consequences.

 

If I don't go to work (30 miles from home) I don't get paid. If the roads are blocked there is no point in me walking to my local shop (2 mile round trip) as there will be nothing in it because of the blockades.

 

Let's get real here people. If we start blocking roads and stopping deliveries we will only damage ourselves. The government will just sit back and wait for the protesters to give in. It's a battle we cannot win because we are losing from the outset.

[WebFerret]

Quite right - that's why it annoys me when people believe the rubbish about high fuel costs being good for the environment. It could be 15 quid a litre and we'd still have to buy it - there would still be more cars on the road year on year.

 

Absolutly agree with you guys - a mass protest is required now (mirroring the French).

 

Fuel prices are having a marked impact on store (food) prices now too - fueling inflation to record levels (no pun intended).

 

One thing I can't quite grasp though with Gordon Brown is that, if anyone remembers, oil prices shot up to $100 a barrel some years back when the £ to $ was about 1.5 and petrol was about 75 pence a liter - now we see $2 to the £ and oil at $100 per barrel - so who is taking the difference in the exchange rate - cos the price at the pumps is now much higher!!! - when in theory petrol should still be showing somewhere under £1 a liter!

 

The sums simply don't add up and someone is obviously raking it in - and it ain't the motorist!

[fergal71]

hi revolting peasant.... please give us your alternative suggestions then....any ideas would be listened too.... shall we just continue as we are...

we are being milked from all angles fromin a whole host of guises..The well paid are even better paid..... when we win one victory they just put in another milking machine.... when I receive a payrise I expect it to give me a better standard of living as I have worked hard to get it. All I see is I owe more and pay more in all host of taxes.... apart from moving to another country or giving up work and milking the system what alternatives do we have... this country is a mess....

[MagicTongue]

everyone will have noticed another increase at the pumps... and now the difference between unleaded and diesel is getting beyond silly. 110.9 per litre unleaded and 121.9 per litre diesel where I am! The reason for this is as of last week all fuel sold in this country as of last week must include a percentage of bio-fuel (exact amount escapes me now) and as the process of bio-fuels is lengthy and much less cost effective it has raised those prices up again... also the gap widening between unleaded and diesel is due to the fact that bio-diesel costs more to produce. Yet another way of making us pay!

Why add bio-fuels? apparently less emmisions are released into our atmosphere, however the process overall is actually much much more pollution than regular unleaded/diesel - a bit of info for any green enthusiasts!

[vogelrok]

what is Biofuel.

 

my Biofuel was a mix of 50% veg oil and 50% diesel. installed a preheater to the fuel inlet. veg oil was 55pence a litre , now it is nearly as dear as diesel. unless you buy happy shopper veg oil lol 55pence a litre on bi=ulk.

 

the law is you can use 2500litres of veg oil before they can tax you on it.

 

also its good for the inviroment and better on the pocket. ok the odd person might run up and ask for a bag of chips whilst at the traffic lights.

 

watchout for the wheat shortage we are about to be told about or will they tell us.

[SklyaFett]

Hi im new to this forum. I'm part of a car club who are sick and tired of fuel and tax. We are wanting to put our voices with other people and protest. I think protesting with the lorry drivers is the way forward. I really think we need to bring the country to its knees before the government will listen. I am part of two forums GT-R Register - Official Nissan Skyline and GTR Owners Club forum - Powered by vBulletin and Skyline Owners Forum - A Nissan Skyline Enthusiast Community I have started posts on both websites and i am getting good interest and support for a mass protest. I am going to attempt to link with some other car websites and try and get as many cars together. Im hoping it will snow ball and maybe get 2-3 thousand cars on a protest with the lorry's. Thoughts??

[TaxedAndConfused]

Protests or blockades won't work.

 

The government here doesn't respond to protests or marches. The biggest one ever went through London just before the Gulf War - Didn't change a thing although it should have.

 

The original fuel protest failed when people started to see the real effects of no fuel. Things like emergency services limiting what they could respond to, empty supermarket shelves and so on.

 

People panicked.

 

At that point Blair had to respond which he did with the Police and a threat of more resources, possibly even the army, to force the supplies through.

 

Although he was (and is) a self-serving fibber of the first rank, he isn't stupid. He could see a possibility of the extremely thin veneer we have covering our society being peeled away by the lack of fuel.

 

In short we are totally dependent on it to live, and we really don't like the alternatives.

 

The government are now more acutely aware of that, hence all the reassurances about fuel supplies recently when Grangemouth closed even though there was loads of fuel available. And also the emergency plans they suddenly all had available to move fuel around.

 

The public also have other things to worry about.

 

If you have a short protest then people will ignore it.

 

If you have a very long protest then you will lose support when the effects bite and people and the media will become hostile.

 

And at that point you lose support and the government will spin against you and then ignore you.

 

If you want to campaign on this then its more effective to bring this to a head via the media and other outlets.

 

The "escalator" in fuel tax wasn't delayed because of the protests but because of how the media treated the incidents afterwards - a lot of "we didn't agree with what they did but we did appreciate the reasons". As I tapped above Blair is not stupid, he knew how to do enough to push this topic into the future where we would probably forget about it.

 

But you also can't just look at this issue on its own.

 

You will also have to think about alternatives to replace the tax.

 

It does pay for a lot of stuff not directly related to roads or even transport. I don't see any of that in the campaigns so far which makes me think there will be a "tax the rich" approach of some kind or more/higher VAT to compensate. Maybe I've missed how this is to be paid for, if someone knows better then please tell me.

 

Also a cut in fuel duty will allow people, usually the more wealthy, to use their cars more. Not to single anyone out here but is it really vital that people get to use a Nissan Skyline more often ? You will remove money from the puplic purse to pay for this. The environmentalists will push this. The public will see lower fuel and more X5s on the road whilst pensioners and the poor suffering fuel poverty still won't get the heating they need because the money will not be available.

 

I am not a green meany, I am a car enthusiast.

 

You will also have to deal with the increased consumption because of lower pump prices if you succeed. I'm not banging on about global warming etc. but the suppliers of oil have very little additional capacity to put into the system at the moment. There are worries about continuing supply from the middle east but more immediately a lack of refining capacity.

 

The recent rises are not because of tax but because of this lack of additional capacity - we are now competing and bidding for oil against the likes of the US and China on the world market.

 

Any protest won't change that one bit.

 

Produce a fully sorted alternative, one that stands up to examination. Then take this alternative and present it to the public and politicians. If it flies and has support it is more likely to succeed.

 

Apologies, I didn't mean for this to be that long :o

[dave]

If Dover is blockaded, then there will be no cross channel traffic. When the French do it in Calais the British Govt. put pressure on the French govt to act.

 

This could work the other way around. Supplies would still get to shops etc... from internal sources and other ports, yet the busiest shipping lane in the world would be at a standstill, blocking traffic up to the M25 in a matter of hours (see operation stack to see the devastation that causes).

 

I think Dover is a weak point - one roundabout blocked and that is it. It would take about 8 cars to bring the port to it's knees.

[citizenB]

dave, didnt this happen whilst Grangemouth was on walk out ?. I thought I saw something on the BBC news albeit with little coverage Apparently it got quite jammed on the approaching roads to the docks at Dover

[dave]

No idea. What's the Grangemouth thing?

 

I've just come through Dover a few days ago - there was no sign of a blockade.