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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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debt with hsbc


pigsic
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That is neither here nor there, if the DCA cannot prove they are legally entitled to collect the debt then they cannot enforce it.

 

Pigsic, did your dad send his CCA request by recorded delivery and enclose the required £1 fee? If so, have you checked on the Royal Mail website if it has been delivered?

 

As long as he has sent the CCA request as per the guidelines, then I wouldn't do much else, I'm sure that those with better knowledge than me on the subject of defaults will be able to help with that :)

Mr & Mrs Ananya's story so far -

Welcome Finance - account closed - no CCA - 02/07 - £1500

NatWest - settled in full 09/06 - £600

NatWest - settled in full 06/07 - £72

Verso - Settled in full 07/08 - £2002

C.K. Edrupt/Provident - account closed - no CCA - 04/07 - £640

Littlewoods/Shop Direct - 2 accounts closed - Statute Barred - 04/10 - £800

D.C.A.s who've given up so far -10

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Yes to which bit? :D

Mr & Mrs Ananya's story so far -

Welcome Finance - account closed - no CCA - 02/07 - £1500

NatWest - settled in full 09/06 - £600

NatWest - settled in full 06/07 - £72

Verso - Settled in full 07/08 - £2002

C.K. Edrupt/Provident - account closed - no CCA - 04/07 - £640

Littlewoods/Shop Direct - 2 accounts closed - Statute Barred - 04/10 - £800

D.C.A.s who've given up so far -10

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Ah yes it must have. As far as I know, they cannot enforce a debt while it is in dispute so sit tight and see what happens.

 

I'd also keep a watch on the deadlines too.

 

When/if they send anything, don't forget to post it on here, removing all the personal information, so someone who know about these things can help you with the next step.

 

Good luck :)

Mr & Mrs Ananya's story so far -

Welcome Finance - account closed - no CCA - 02/07 - £1500

NatWest - settled in full 09/06 - £600

NatWest - settled in full 06/07 - £72

Verso - Settled in full 07/08 - £2002

C.K. Edrupt/Provident - account closed - no CCA - 04/07 - £640

Littlewoods/Shop Direct - 2 accounts closed - Statute Barred - 04/10 - £800

D.C.A.s who've given up so far -10

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  • 4 weeks later...

hi just thought i would let you know where we are with dad troubles. We cca dad credit card account with hsbc there time is up on the 28 feb but dad received a letter today to say if he does not pay account in full they will send it to a collecter what should i do

and with the over draft we offered athem £1 a month they wont accept it what should i do i know it wont be £280 what they say dad owes because it was only £50 overdarft limit

please help

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Hiya Pigsic, if they don't send the information you have requested in your CCA section 78 request the debt is unenforceable until they comply.

 

You should send an S10 notice, confirming that due to their non compliance the account is in dispute, they are committing a statutory criminal offense and demand they cease to process your dad's information.

 

This should also stop them passing the account to a debt collection agent

 

pete

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thanks for that where will i get a s10 notice please do have any advice on what to do about the overdraft

thanks

 

You could try this one pigsic (tailored to suit) :

 

Formal Complaint

Letter before Action

Dear Sir/Madam,

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**. The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore, if this non-compliance continues for a further month then a summary, criminal offence is committed.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I await your rapid response.

Yours Faithfully

Credit Card Formal Complaint Letter Before Action_______________

(this heading should be at the top, pigsic)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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If you feel that the amount of the overdraft is also in question, send a SAR and follow :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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thank you for that i will get that letter printed and get it sent off

thanks again

 

You're welcome pigsic - let's know how you get on .........:)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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  • 2 weeks later...

hi there

can not beleive it hsbc bank got the letter on the 4-03-2008 they have sent another letter today saying

 

according to our records, your account is seriously out of order, despite previous communications on this matter.

unless you make an immediate payment of £464.04, we will be placing your account with a debt collection agency.

Failure to make the required payment could result in your details being passed to credit reference agencies, which may seriously affect your ability to obtain credit elsewhere in the future. If we do decide to take this course of action you will be advised before we make contact ith the agencies

So they just ignored the last letter we sent from post 13

WHAT CAN I DO KNOW

THANKS LISA

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Hi pigsic and sorry to hear you're still getting grief.

 

I'm no expert at all but as far as I am aware, once the debt is in dispute, they cannot enforce it or farm it out to DCAs and if they try, which they clearly are, I would report them to Trading Standards for non compliance.

 

Also, you have issued a formal complaint and they have ignored this, another thing to point out to TS.

Mr & Mrs Ananya's story so far -

Welcome Finance - account closed - no CCA - 02/07 - £1500

NatWest - settled in full 09/06 - £600

NatWest - settled in full 06/07 - £72

Verso - Settled in full 07/08 - £2002

C.K. Edrupt/Provident - account closed - no CCA - 04/07 - £640

Littlewoods/Shop Direct - 2 accounts closed - Statute Barred - 04/10 - £800

D.C.A.s who've given up so far -10

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You have already told them this in the letter that you sent pigsic -

 

send them another to re-iterate it -quoting from your previous letter...

 

Refer to their latest letter and say something like :

 

As has already been stressed in my letter of the XX XXX XX(Date) you ate not at liberty to demand payment whilst an account is in dispute, nor may it be passed to another party for collection.

 

For ease of reference here is the relevant passage:

" You should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS."

 

You are advised that any further demands or threats to malign my credit worthiness will be passed to the FSA, OFT and Trading Standards.

 

Then put in the other bit about :

" I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit."

 

Hope this does it pigsic - if not - follow through and report it - and send them copies!

best of Luck , don't let them get to you

johnny:)

  • Haha 1

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Just an afterthought pigsic:

 

If you have been through HSBC's complaints procedure and received a final response, you can take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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WOULD THIS LETTER BY OK TO SEND TO HSBC BANK

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

__________________

If I have been helpful, please feel free to tickle my scales !!

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Hi again.

 

That letter looks good to me but remember it refers to enclosing a copy of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act s77/8 so delete this line if you haven't got a copy to send.

 

Also, send it special delivery and good luck.

Mr & Mrs Ananya's story so far -

Welcome Finance - account closed - no CCA - 02/07 - £1500

NatWest - settled in full 09/06 - £600

NatWest - settled in full 06/07 - £72

Verso - Settled in full 07/08 - £2002

C.K. Edrupt/Provident - account closed - no CCA - 04/07 - £640

Littlewoods/Shop Direct - 2 accounts closed - Statute Barred - 04/10 - £800

D.C.A.s who've given up so far -10

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Oh, and don't sign it!

Mr & Mrs Ananya's story so far -

Welcome Finance - account closed - no CCA - 02/07 - £1500

NatWest - settled in full 09/06 - £600

NatWest - settled in full 06/07 - £72

Verso - Settled in full 07/08 - £2002

C.K. Edrupt/Provident - account closed - no CCA - 04/07 - £640

Littlewoods/Shop Direct - 2 accounts closed - Statute Barred - 04/10 - £800

D.C.A.s who've given up so far -10

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