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    • just to be clear here..... the DVLA do not send letters if a drivers licence address differs from any car's V5C that shows the same driver as it's registered keeper.
    • sorry she is a private individual, the cars are parking on her land. she can clamp the cars. only firms were outlawed from doing it bazza. thats what the victims of people dumping cars on their drives near airports did and they didn't not get prosecuted.    
    • The DVLA keeps two records of you. One as a driver and one for your car. If they differ you might find out in around a month when they will send you a reminder as well as to your other half for their car. If you receive nothing then you can be fairly sure that you were tailgating though wouldn't explain why they didn't pick up your car on one of drive past their cameras. However even if you do get a PCN later then your situation will not change. The current PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which is the main law that covers private parking. It doesn't comply for two reasons. 1. Section 9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN states 47 minutes which are the arrival and departure times not the time you were actually parked. if you subtract the time you took to drive from the entrance. look for a parking place  park in it perhaps having to manoeuvre a couple of times to fit within the lines and unload the children reloading the children getting seat belts on  driving to the exit stopping for cars pedestrians on the way you may well find that the actual time you were parked was quite likely to be around ten minutes over the required time.  Motorists are allowed a MINIMUM of ten minutes Grace period [something that the rogues in the parking industry conveniently forget-the word minimum] . So it could be that you did not overstay. 2] Sectio9 [2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN does not include the words in brackets and in 2a the Act included the word "must". Another fail. What those failures mean is that MET cannot transfer the liability to pay the charge from the driver to the keeper. Only the driver is now liable which is why we recommend our members not to appeal. It is so easy to reveal who was driving by saying "when I parked the car" than "when the driver parked the car".  As long as they don't know who was driving they have little chance of winning in court. This is partly because Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. And because anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your cars. It is a shame that you are too far away to get photos of the car park signage. It is often poor and quite often the parking rogues lose in Court on their poor signage alone. I hope hat you can now relax and not panic about the PCN. You will receive many letters from Met, their unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors threatening you with ever higher amounts of money. The poor dears have never read the Act which states quite clearly that the maximum sum that can be charged is the amount on the signs. The Act has only been in force for 12 years so it may take a  few more years for the penny to drop.  You can safely ignore everything they send you unless or until they send you a Letter of Claim. Just come back to us if they do send one of those love letters to you and we will advise on a snotty letter to send them. In the meantime go on and enjoy your life. Continue reading other threads and if you do get any worrying letters let us know. 
    • Hopefully the ANPR cameras didn't pick up the two vehicles, but I don't think you're out of the woods just yet. MET's "work" consists of sending out hundreds of these invoices every week so yours might be a few days behind your partner's. There is also the matter of Royal Mail.  I once sold two second-hand books to someone on eBay.  Weirdly the cost of sending them separately was less than the cost of sending them in one parcel.  So to save a few bob I sent them seperately.  One turned up the next day.  One arrived after four days.  They were  sent from the same post office at the same time! But let's hope I'm being too pessimistic. Please update us of any developments.
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AMEX & AIC & Newman


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Hi Blue,

 

I'm working away from home this week so access to the internet is somewhat unpredictable, so sorry for delays in responding.

 

I suspect Drake and Co are playing the 'so this guy thinks he knows something about the law lets try it on with him' game. All you can do is write your defence stating your case with the information available at that time. Then when it is read by the court, even before your hearing, there may be some directions given.

There may also be some brinksmanship here, as they push you to the last minute hoping you will cave in.

 

Whatever happens keep coming back to the basics of your defence don't let them sidetrack you.

 

I'm sure others will be along with advice and their thoughts too.

 

CP

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Hi CP,

 

Thanks for the moral support - I plan to defend with the facts - there is far too much underhand that has gone on so far with all of these guys and I WILL have my day in court if thats what it takes.

Some of the correspondence I have had along the way is quite unbelievable when purported to be on behalf of such a reputable organisation as AMEX.

 

Thanks again and please share with me your progress also!

 

Thanks

Blue

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

It all seems to have gone very quiet in terms of responses and I am concerned that after being given some very helpful advice and now approaching final hurdles - I am left in limbo as to the way forward.

I have to submit an Allocation Questionnaire within THREE days and really dont know the best way forward. Whilst I could get outside help I suspect I really wanted to keep it under the realms of the CAG, as there appears to be far more experience here and its through them that I have got this far to date.

In particular I am keen to hear from any members of the the Site Team that have had recent experience with the imbeciles working on behalf of Amex - or compiling AQ's and a defence.

PT2537 - I know you helped Padders win his case recently and also appreciate that you have indicated no PM's - but is there anything you can do to help??

I need to fill in the AQ as efficiently as possible - I believe I have certainly got the higher ground at present and unlike the Rankine case that I read with interest - I have the moral ground also - but legally speaking of course, morals are 'set aside' (to coin a phrase) in these cases.

I believe the thread gives much information but am willing to disclose the details with anybody that can help.

I would hate to fall at this late stage having come so far - but am concerned at the silence from recent requests of mine.

 

Many thanks

Blue

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Thanks CP - have done.

I really need general help and advice in how best to fill it out with out jeopardising my case.

eg. Q1 do I want to attempt to settle?

Q2 do I want a month stay - mediation etc etc etc

What did you do in yours? Are you going for an unexcuted agreement??

 

Thanks Blue

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Thanks CP - have done.

I really need general help and advice in how best to fill it out with out jeopardising my case.

eg. Q1 do I want to attempt to settle?

Q2 do I want a month stay - mediation etc etc etc

What did you do in yours? Are you going for an unexcuted agreement??

 

Thanks Blue

 

Hi

 

Have you posted a copy of the agreement that they sent you on the thread?

 

With regards to the questions

 

Q1 Yes but only if you feel it is likely to be possible, i dont think that you have anything to lose

 

Q2 again its your call here

 

Is there anything else that you need help with? or are these the only two Q's that are bugging you??

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HI PT,

yes the original agreement was posted by me on 19th November 2007 earlier in this thread. You did take a look and gave me your comments at the time.

I wondered whether or not things had changed since then.

In all correspondence with Newmans, stevens drake and Amex they refer to this as an executed agreement as it was combined with Terms and conditions on the back of it. Even though they have sent me two different versions of T's and C's through the course of this.

Having never done anything like this before I am concerned as to not make mistakes and get it right.

I havent sent a full defence in yet - do I do that at this stage or just fill in the AQ. I have over 40 documents backwards and forwards - do I need to disclose them at this time?

I appreciate how busy you are Paul and any help will be really welcome.

Thanks

Blue

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Hi BT,

 

On my AQ following advice I ticked:

Q1: Yes. This shows you have, and still are trying to resolve this case

Q2: Yes. Gives some flexibility. In my case the judge who reviewed the paperwork (this was without me or AMEX being there) gave orders that AMEX supply the requested paperwork by a certain date. They haven't so more ammo for me :-) Works for both sides too.

 

Yes: They haven't produced an agreement, only poor copies of application forms, and a few statements. Not what has been requested and subsequently ordered by the court.

 

CP

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Thanks CP

 

Just one question: Did you send copies of all correspondence you had - back with the AQ as part of a defence - or are you keeping that back as a formal defence when needed. Does it need to be defended at AQ stage or is the policy just to stick to the 'unable to supply a properly executed agreement' at this point.

 

Thanks again

BT

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Thanks CP

 

Just one question: Did you send copies of all correspondence you had - back with the AQ as part of a defence - or are you keeping that back as a formal defence when needed. Does it need to be defended at AQ stage or is the policy just to stick to the 'unable to supply a properly executed agreement' at this point.

 

Thanks again

BT

No you do not need to send them letters yet awhile

 

Once you send back the AQ you will receive directions from the court as to what you are required to do, it will be at that point when the disclosure stages start

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Hi BT,

 

Great PT has covered your other queries.

 

The AQ is simply a way for the court to assess what has happened and what is going to happen. From now on it will be under the direction of the court. If they send any information to you (directions) you must act on it. Then, if it does go to a hearing and you're face to face with a judge you can hold your head high and say you've compiled with all the courts request.

It is daunting but the good thing is judges know you are an individual, who's possibly never been in a court before, and they will make allowances for this. The claimants however are likely to get slapped wrists if they waver too much from the normal prodcedure.

 

CP

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Hi CP and PT,

 

Sorry - something else has emerged!

 

On the page for 'Other Information' on the AQ should I make reference to my 'Request For Information' letter which I sent to SD. They responded by only enclosing the alleged executed agreement (the application form), an earlier letter which detailed a file referral charge (which inludes AIC and Newman fees - although it doesnt specify this) and a copy of an account statement which was for one specific month (which was 7 months after the alleged default and three months before they took over the case). They then went on to say that all other documents I had requested were not under 'Automatic Disclosure' and referred me to part 31 of the Civil Procedure rules. They stated that their client "is not therefore obliged to provide you with any document by way of disclosure until such time as the Court orders by way of either Standard Disclosure or an Order for Specific Disclosure."

They do invite me to send my "application and your full grounds for requesting the original documentation" if I require Disclosure of any documents prior to an Order for Standard Disclosure being made by the court.

One would have assumed therefore that my Request for Information covered this point in the first place and is somewhat contradictory to their previous statement that their 'Client is not obliged'.

 

So, the question remains - should I make reference to this in the AQ and send copies of these documents as I believe they have contributed to delaying tactics. Do I also complete the box relating to 'other information you consider will help the judge to manage the claim'.

 

Thanks

BT

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Hi CP and PT,

 

Sorry - something else has emerged!

 

On the page for 'Other Information' on the AQ should I make reference to my 'Request For Information' letter which I sent to SD. They responded by only enclosing the alleged executed agreement (the application form), an earlier letter which detailed a file referral charge (which inludes AIC and Newman fees - although it doesnt specify this) and a copy of an account statement which was for one specific month (which was 7 months after the alleged default and three months before they took over the case). They then went on to say that all other documents I had requested were not under 'Automatic Disclosure' and referred me to part 31 of the Civil Procedure rules. They stated that their client "is not therefore obliged to provide you with any document by way of disclosure until such time as the Court orders by way of either Standard Disclosure or an Order for Specific Disclosure."

They do invite me to send my "application and your full grounds for requesting the original documentation" if I require Disclosure of any documents prior to an Order for Standard Disclosure being made by the court.

One would have assumed therefore that my Request for Information covered this point in the first place and is somewhat contradictory to their previous statement that their 'Client is not obliged'.

 

So, the question remains - should I make reference to this in the AQ and send copies of these documents as I believe they have contributed to delaying tactics. Do I also complete the box relating to 'other information you consider will help the judge to manage the claim'.

 

Thanks

BT

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

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Thanks Tinkerbell.

It certainly looks the business - but should i send it at this stage AND refer to it in the AQ.

I'm just confused as to the procedures and in which order I need to do them. I am requesting as Stay of 1 month - so does this form part of that 'stay'. Also, if that is the case, do I tick the box marked 'Do I intend to make any applications in the immediate future' as 'yes' and when it asks 'If yes, what for?' do I refer to this request OR do I wait for the Courts instructions - gee - this is a minefield when you get into it!

Thanks again

BT

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Hi, Sorry, im just about to leave for a hearing this morning, so i am not going to be around much today

 

Where it refers to applications, this is formal applications for whatever reason on a N244 Application notice. this would cost you £75.00 to make the application and such an application would need to be worded correctly

 

Im not sure at this stage ticking yes would be a good idea unless you have anyone who can help you with this

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