Thanks for the kind words Stu. They're much appreciated. Malc

Hi ecb Sorry for the late reply. Just noticed this thread. Are your old bills with us based on accurate meter readings? If they are, it looks as though either the gas has been used somewhere or the meter is wildly inaccurate. Should it be the latter, you'll need to take this up with your new supplier. They'll now be responsible for the meter. Although, if it turns out the meter is at fault, you'll need to come back to us so we can look at past bills again. If it's the former, we'll still be happy to advise even though you've switched. I'd recommend talking to our Energy Efficiency team. Tell them about your house, heating and appliances. They specialise in helping people understand their usage and ways they can cut back. Won't help with past bills, I know, but might be useful going forward. Don't rely too much on our online Energy Tracker. It's only meant as a guide. Sometimes, a rogue meter reading or an estimate can throw it out. Always best to keep a handle on the meter readings as you're now doing. Alternatively, if our past bills are estimates and you've meter readings we've not used, please let us have them and we'll be happy to re-bill the account. Sorry I can't be of more help ecb but hope this is of interest. Malc

No problem Stuvan. Glad to help. Sounds as though you're on an unrestricted tariff. This is where we charge all usage at the day rate even though you've a two-rate meter. We just add the night and day together. Because Economy 7 tariffs have a premium day rate and lower night rate, it can be cheaper to have the unrestricted option where night usage is relatively low. There's no specific threshold when Economy 7 becomes cheaper as it depends on the prices and the region. It can range between 35% and 55%. We can tell you though. By all means give me a shout if you need any more help Stuvan. Malc

Hi responsible I agree with nottslad. Looks like a change of tenancy wasn't done. As nottslad says, talk to us about this. We'll need to set up an account in your name from the time you took over responsibility for the flat. We can also see about setting up a proper payment arrangement on the account. I'm afraid, paying a bit of money every 2 weeks isn't a formal arrangement and I'm sorry if one of our advisors led you to believe it was. With a proper payment plan, all debt follow up will stop provided the agreed payments are made on time. This will also stop a warrant being raised or going down the prepayment route. Hope this helps responsible. Give me a shout if you need any more info as will be happy to help. Malc

Hi Stuvan I'm sorry we weren't able to give you a proper response when you called earlier. There have been system issues today that have caused a few headaches. This is possibly a case of transposed meter readings. With two rate Economy 7 meters, the readings can be recorded the wrong way round. Night usage is recorded as day usage and vice versa. We've a team dedicated to sorting this type of thing. They'll put things right so that future readings are recorded correctly and re-bill the account back to the time it went wrong. Any overcharge will be refunded. Sometimes, where the bulk of usage has been charged previously at the lower night rate, re-billing at the correct higher day rate will put a debit balance on the account. This is where the Billing Code might kick in. Under the Billing Code, where we're at fault, we'll not charge for any energy used over 12 months from the date the issue was put right. Not saying this is the case with you but, if it is, ask for the Billing Code to be applied. It would help move things along if you can take meter readings about an hour apart. During this time, please use a high capacity appliance like a kettle. This will help us establish which register is which. Transposed readings are linked to the systems used by the meter operators for the region. Consequently, we'll need to liaise with the metering guys to make sure the problem is sorted at the source. Our website pulls the information from this source. If this has been wrong from the start, our website won't recognise a discrepancy. I agree, though, this is something the meter readers should have picked up on. Really sorry they didn't. Hope this helps point you in the right direction Stuvan. Give me a shout if I can help further as will be happy to do so. Malc

Thanks for that citizenB. Corine, you can email our Home Moves team at [email protected] Alternatively, you can call on 0345 303 3020. They're open tomorrow from 8am to 4pm if this is of help. Hope this is useful. Malc

Certainly is citizenB. Am I ok to put details on the open forum? Don't want to break the rules. Malc

Hi Corine Hope you don't mind if I jump on your thread. I normally lurk around the gas and electricity forum but thought I might be able to offer a bit of help here. This looks like a case of us not being told about the change of tenancy from May 11. When responsibility for a property changes, it's up to the new occupant/landlord/letting agent to let us know about the change. We can then close the old account and set up a new one for ongoing usage. As you called us in April 11 with readings, I suspect we closed the previous account and opened another for you from this time. It then appears we didn't receive any further contact until July 12. If this is right, the account opened for you would have kept running until we were told differently in July 12. I also suspect you're right about correspondence going to the property. It takes quite a time before we reach the stage you're now at. During this time, we'll have attempted to make contact by phone, letter, home calls or email, if possible. Best thing is to contact us. Let us have copies of the relevant Tenancy Agreements and details of your tenants. We can then see about sorting accounts out in the names of those responsible for using the energy. We've a specialist Home Moves team who'll look after this for you. Contact details are on bills and our website. Hope this is of some help Corine. Give me a shout if you need any more info as will be happy to help. Malc

Hi Stu Great idea. This will really help us understand when the meter switches over. By all means PM me but I'll be in and out of the office over the next few days so might be better to email to [email protected]. This way, one of my colleagues can pick it up if I'm not around. Hopefully, though, I'll be here and can check what's happening for you. Malc

Hi Stu You could have a faulty timeswitch. Timeswitches are fitted to multi-rate meters and switch the meter between the day and night registers at the appropriate times. From the times you've provided, it looks as though your meter is switching at the wrong times. If I'm right, we'll come out and fix the fault so the meter switches when it should. Once the fault has been fixed, we'll look at re-billing the account to better reflect the day/night split. Usually, we'll do this by going back to when the timeswitch became faulty and looking at the usage before then. We'll then use this info to estimate what we believe should have been used during the night and day periods if the timeswitch had been working properly. We'll re-bill the account to these estimates and refund any overpayment. However, as you've just moved in, we'll not have any past history to go on. In these cases, we'll apply a default 60/40 day/night split. This is based on the approx proportion of night usage needed to make Economy 7 tariffs viable for a customer. Again, we'll refund any overpayment. This split isn't set in stone and you can appeal if you believe the split should be different. From post 11 above, I suspect this is what our advisor meant. Might be an idea just to tell us about the times you've noted though. Don't want our guy turning up without the right parts. Hope this helps Stu. Give me a shout if I can help further as always happy to do so. Malc

Hi Stu It's certainly possible for meter registers on two rate Economy 7 meters to be charged the wrong way round. This is known as 'transposed readings.' If this is the situation with your meter, we have a team who specialise in sorting these issues out. They'll liaise with the different organisations involved like Meter Operators and Meter Readers to stop this happening in future. They'll also re-bill your account correctly and refund any amount that may have been over charged. To give you a bit of background, meter manufacturers set meter rate IDs to tell separate readings apart. The Meter Operator gives each rate a set time sequence when the rates are active. This varies by meter type and region. Also, each Meter Operator has their own way of describing the individual registers. Our advisor has done the best thing in arranging for a site visit to check your meter. However, you can quickly check this yourself if you wish. Just take a set of readings around 5-6pm and then another about an hour later. In between, use a high kWh rated appliance like boiling a kettle. See which register moves. Call this through to us and, if the electricity is being recorded on the wrong register, we can kick start the process to have this sorted. Hope this helps Stu. Give me a shout if you need any more info as will be happy to help. Malc

Hi Crapstone You're absolutely right to be concerned. Whilst we do currently have a number of offers on the go regarding insulation, we're not calling on an ad hoc basis at individual properties to check they're fully up to scratch. Also, anyone calling on our behalf must follow strict codes of practice. In particular, they must show an identity card with our name, their name, a unique reference number, a colour photograph, the date the card runs out and a phone number to check the identity of the caller. In most cases, they'll also be wearing E.ON branded clothing and more than likely driving an E.ON marked vehicle. I would definitely encourage you to report this. If it's a rogue caller we need to know so we can take it up with the relevant authorities. Equally, if it's someone acting on our behalf but not following the above guidelines, this needs to be nipped in the bud too. Malc

Hi gemmy The advisor was wrong not to make it clear it was a statement and not a bill. Really sorry about this. Just before they take over, British Gas will send you their key. The first time you put this into the meter it will clear down all our settings including any remaining credit. Before doing this, make sure you've used up all the outstanding credit on the meter. On the day the account actually transfers, it's most unlikely we'll be able to verify how much credit is on the meter. Hope this helps. Malc

Hi gemmy Don't worry, we're not sending you a bill. What you'll receive is a statement. This will show all the payments you've made and outline how we've calculated the electricity you've already paid for. We've an obligation to show prepayment customers how the money they've put on the meter has been spent. This is what the statement will show. It's not a bill asking you to pay more. Key meters send electronic messages back to us with readings each time you top up. However, if the statement date falls at a time when you've not topped up we won't have an accurate reading and will estimate how much you've used up to the statement date. I suspect this is what's happened here. The advisor you spoke to will have asked for a meter reading so they can issue an accurate statement. Sorry this wasn't explained clearly when you called gemmy but hope this eases the worry a little. Malc

Hi JManx Were we advised of the change of responsibility when you moved in last September? If we were, the old account will have been closed and a new one opened in the name of all the tenants we were told about. Ideally, using accurate meter readings. As nottslad says, if your name appears on the bill then, I'm afraid, all those named will be responsible for the total amount outstanding and we'll continue to chase all named persons for payment. I must say, if your landlord was told we would accept part payment and not include you when chasing the remainder then this was wrong and I'm sorry this impression may have been given. I do understand the difficulties you describe about contacting former tenants. I would suggest talking to us as the account will need closing and a new one opening in the names of the current tenants. If it helps, we can discuss a payment arrangement to spread the outstanding balance over a more manageable period. Malc

Hi ravesafe I'm afraid, as both your names are on the account, you're both liable for the full amount of the final bill. We won't make a distinction as your personal arrangements for the utilities are none of our business. If you send us a part payment, we'll continue to chase both people named on the account for the balance. I'm surprised, though, that we wouldn't take details of your former flatmates new address as we usually like as much information as possible about all those responsible for the energy used. Might be an idea to include these details in your letter. Sorry I can't offer more comfort ravesafe. Malc

Hi Jeff I’m sorry to hear of the problems you’ve been having with your central heating cover and I’m really pleased that the manager you spoke to was able to sort things out for you. If you remain unhappy with the service you’ve received from us, there’s some information here that may help. http://propertyservices.eonenergy.com/UserFiles/PDFs/Complaints%20procedure%20-%20June%2011.pdf I hope our engineer gets you back up and running this afternoon. Malc

Hi cuncannon I'm sorry you feel we didn't charge you correctly whilst you were with us. Although Economy 7 meters are particularly suited to all electric properties with storage heaters, they can also be used with different types of heating system. They give 7 hours of cheaper rate electricity at night for all appliances and can be beneficial to people with lifestyles/appliances that suit electricity used during these times. For instance, people who have high usage electrical appliances like tumble dryers, dishwashers, washing machines etc can use timers to take advantage of the cheaper off peak rates. In some properties, customers have had storage heaters replaced with other types of heaters but not changed the meter. This is ok with us because we can put customers on a single rate tariff even though they have an Economy 7 meter. All we do is add the two rates together and charge as a single rate. Often, though, people don't tell us of changes so we'll continue to charge as before. If you asked us at any time to go on to a single rate tariff but we failed to do this, then you certainly have a case for a refund. I suspect this is what we're looking at. One thing that puzzles me, though. In your second post, you say we haven't altered the tariff. As we're no longer your supplier, it won't be us who does this. It will be down to your new supplier who will send you a new key to download their prices on to the meter. Have they sent you a new key yet? Again, I'm sorry Economy 7 didn't suit you but hope the above makes it a little clearer why it's not only customers who have storage heaters who benefit from this type of set up. Malc

Hi themummy Really sorry for the late reply. Been out of the office for quite a while recently. Only back on this forum on Friday. I'm also sorry you've had such a hard time about the balance on your account. It seems this is now being sorted but give me a shout if you need me to look at anything as will be happy to help. Malc

Hi JS33 Sorry for the late reply. Have been out of the office for a couple of weeks. Glad this is sorted. As I suspected, we'd closed to estimates and this resulted in a debt because they were too high. Once re-billed accurately, the false debt disappeared. I do understand how disconcerting some of our debt letters can be. I've fed back about the tone of these letters before and will happily do so again. We do have a responsibility to make customers aware at the earliest opportunity of the possibilities if debts are ignored. Consequently, the letters can sound harsh. Anyway, happy you're sorted and many thanks for letting me know. Malc

Hi JS33 Gas prepayment meters are usually topped up using a card. These generally work in a similar way to electric key meters, in that, electronic messages pass between the meter and supplier. This allows us to update meters with the correct settings. Have you spoken to us yet? Would be interested in the outcome. Malc

Hi JS33 Don't worry about this account being passed to bailiffs, it hasn't reached that point. As 2Grumpy says, it's the responsibility of the new supplier to send the old supplier the meter readings they'll use to open their account. The old supplier will then use the same readings to close their account. This ensures you're only charged once for the same energy. This is the same for both prepayment and credit meters. If, after a certain time, we haven't received readings from the new supplier then the account will automatically close to estimated readings. However, we'll re-bill the account accurately as soon as we receive the correct readings. We won't ask you for the readings because, by this time, you're not our customer. The outstanding amount may just be down to incorrectly estimated readings. There used to be an issue with the old token prepayment meters. These needed re-calibrating by an engineer each time prices changed. However, these have nearly all been replaced with key meters. We're able to re-set key meters by sending an electronic message to the meter each time there's a price change. This allows us to up date them immediately. There's the odd token meter still around, though, so I'm not discounting this totally but it is unlikely. Do you top up using a key or buy tokens? Was there a delay when you changed suppliers? If there was, did you use the new supplier's payment device to top up the meters before the account actually switched to them? If you did, these payments may have gone to them for energy used whilst you were still with us. This would also lead to a debit balance showing on the account. Don't worry if this did happen. There's an industry wide process in place to make sure this type of misdirected payment is returned to the correct account. Talk to one of our prepayment teams about this (contact details are on your bills). Give them the readings your new supplier has used to start your account with them. They'll re-bill your account to these. If there's still a balance showing, they'll be happy to explain where it comes from. Sorry for all the questions JS33 but hope this is of some use. Give me a shout if you need any more info as will be happy to help. Malc

I'm afraid this isn't quite the way I see it guys. Could be wrong but I'm interpreting the OP's situation as an issue with the start reading for the account once they had taken over responsibility for the property. I don't see it as an issue with the reading at the time the supply changed hands. The way I see it, the OP took over on x date and believes the reading for this day should be 28000. However, we have a reading from the previous owner for the same day of 21000 which we've closed the old account to. As it takes several weeks for a change of supplier to go through, there will be another later reading which the new supplier will use to open their account to. This, I suspect, will be in excess of 28000 so will not appear out of line. Must admit, from the info available, I'm not sure and am quite happy to be proved wrong. However, the OP did say in their first post the matter related to an incorrect start reading and this is what I've been going on. Malc

Hi jack I'm sorry you've been unable to reach a satisfactory resolution with our Director's Office and would agree with Surfer and ask for a deadlock letter. Just a quick heads up, though. Once 56 days have passed you can go to the Ombudsman regardless of having a deadlock letter. However, the deadlock letter means you can go sooner. Malc

Hi hildaw Must admit, not quite sure from what you've posted, but first impressions suggest this does sound like a third party dispute. You say, the reading of 21000 was provided by the previous owner when responsibility changed hands. If this fell in line with the pattern of usage on the old account then there would have been no reason to question this reading. Consequently, this account will have been closed to this reading and a final bill sent to the previous owner. This reading will then have been used to start your account. Changing your starting reading will have implications for the closing reading used for the former owner. Hence, I suspect a third party dispute. This is not to say you can't ask us to re-check the readings used. Sorry I can't offer anything more positive at this stage hildaw. Malc