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    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Barclays - charges should be £1.50 - Whistleblower revelations


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Hi cg,

This is a decision only you can make.

You've got to way up how much the charges are against the offer.

How much aggro they've caused you when the charges where being takne - with how much the money they've offered will better your current circumstances.

If there is interest added to your claim, in theory, it may hard to persuade a judge to enforce a claim if the offer made is almost all of the charges, and you're just pushing an interest matter!

 

Your choice cg, whichever you chose, it's gotta be right for your present situation!

Good luck either way!

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If my advice has helped, please click on my scales. Thank you!

MBNA - CRA file to be cleared then finished!

__________________________________________

Abbey Personal - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court

__________________________________________

Capital One - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court

__________________________________________

GMAC - Sent DCA SAR 9th March 07 - confirmed not legally assigned.

Waiting for GMAC to provide breakdown of charges and CCA under s79

__________________________________________

Alliance & Leicester - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court.

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Thanks for the advice Perseus. I think I should continue on with the claim. There is no interest added at this point and I'm still paying back the overdraft so £300 I fail to claim back is an additional £300 I have to find to pay back Barclays. What would be the next step if I continue with my claim.

 

Many thanks Perseus

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You're welcme, and thanks for the click!

 

You could write, accepting (unconditionally) the offer as a part payment only, but you still wish to pursue the balance of your charges (in court if necessary), and ask them to reconsider their offer. Expecially as you have only asked for charges only to be refunded at this stage, and that should this case go to court, you will be seeking s69 interest at 8% (this only increases the value of your claim by £104, but stil!!!) plus they will also incurr legal costs for defence, plus court costs!

 

If they reply and state that the offer is it, full and final - then it's up to you should you take the offer, or pursue it in court.

As you say - if its £300 short of just your charges, then there's another £400 plus owing!

Give them 14 days as a final letter before county court action, and see if they budge. I wouldn't hold out much hope to be honest, but stranger things have happened.

Don't forget - send any letters recorded/special d!

 

If you'd like, post up your intended letter, and I'm sure some fine peeps here will offer advice about wording etc.

 

good luck!

If my advice has helped, please click on my scales. Thank you!

MBNA - CRA file to be cleared then finished!

__________________________________________

Abbey Personal - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court

__________________________________________

Capital One - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court

__________________________________________

GMAC - Sent DCA SAR 9th March 07 - confirmed not legally assigned.

Waiting for GMAC to provide breakdown of charges and CCA under s79

__________________________________________

Alliance & Leicester - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court.

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Thanks again Perseus

 

I'll set out a response and post it for comment. As you say stranger things have happened. Ultimately I've decided i have no issue taking this to court action if necessary. Bring it on

 

Thanks

 

cg266

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  • 3 weeks later...
I think the 9p was what it costs in computer operation terms. You would have to add to that stationary, postage costs, and some staff costs. I think £1.50 to £2 is more like it.

 

Anyway here's the bit form the program last night

 

YouTube - Whistleblower: Barclays Bank - Penalty Charges

 

I work in debt recovery and routinely send bills to customers. I work in a low-tech office.

 

We release letters to the printers, envelope the letters and post them. I'd say the total cost of this is around 35p (1st class).

 

These banks have hi-tech software, printers and enveloping machines (and 2nd class post!).

 

I'm not sure what the 'staff costs' are. Unless they add a charge up front for customers quering the bank charge, which is, in itself, wrong.

 

I would, of course, settle for an outcome at the OFT vs Banks hearing of £1.50!!!:):):)

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  • 1 year later...

I have a question that I hope someone can answer and as this my first post I have probably posted the question in the wrong place.

 

Can business's reclaim unfair bank charges? I have a friend who has been charged 13k in total by Barclays over the last three years.

 

Thanks

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  • 2 years later...
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