*holds MM responsible for me having to spend time reading though this shpeel to update my unread threads*

thread tidied

dx

Thouroughly hacked off with these new rules; 1. my insurance expires mid-month, 2. I have paid a heavy premium to buy a house with a garage - so that I can keep the car properly off-road when it is not insured, (previously I parked it on my parents' front-garden.) 3. My kid brother got fined under the old rules, (which were already quite strict), he had car locked in garage while he was lying in hospital in a coma - still got done for not declaring SORN on disk expiry.

I have a pre-existing medical condition, (yes, the insurers know all about it and the DVLA), so it often takes a few weeks for the medical reports and tests to be reviewed / accepted. Now, thanks to the new rules, I stand to lose part of each year's car tax disc, or have to 'double pay' for at least a month.

If car insurance can start on any day; why is SORN still built on exact calendar months?? All from a Government that claims to be "simplifying red-tape". Are these new rules an acknowledgement that the APNR system is *not* working?

Considering the rising cost of fuel, premium tax and MOT; I think that my current car will be my last.

Hi Zaphod27,

I think this actually allows the vehicle to stay taxed so long as a person driving it is insured, eg. using their own third party insurance to drive the vehicle. I will definitely be keeping a copy of this in my wallet.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/49/section/22 (1) 144A (5)

Section of relevance below, as a vehicle being used by someone else is covered even when parked.

22 Offence of keeping vehicle which does not meet insurance requirements

(1) In the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52), after section 144 insert—

“144A Offence of keeping vehicle which does not meet insurance requirements

....(5)

Point (5) below clearly states;

(5) For the purposes of this section a vehicle is covered by a policy of insurance or security if the policy of insurance or security is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle.

So, if a policy is in force by anyone using the vehicle the minimum conditions have been met under the current law, and no offence of keeping a taxed vehicle uninsured exists.

Basically if I use my fathers car my insurance covers me to drive this vehicle on third party cover, therefore the vehicle is covered while being used by me, and no offence of the vehicle being uninsured exists. He can allow this vehicle to have no insurance of it's own as it's being used by me. If I subsequently park it on the road I am the one responsible for the vehicle under the current law. Therefore the minimum requirements of insurance are met, whilst in my use. This only applies if you have given permission to someone else to use your vehicle.

I often drive other cars not insured by me and specifically make sure my policy covers me for this. I can see a lot of insurance documents being copied and sent to DVLA to prove the user at the time has the minimum insurance therefore the vehicle is covered, which will inundate them with heaps of paperwork. All I can say, is well done to the government for creating work for civil servants, at the same time as trying to criminalise the law abiding citizens.

144B Exceptions to section 144A offence

Clearly states it is for the prosecution to prove beyond all doubt;

(9) A person accused of an offence under section 144A of this Act is not entitled to the benefit of an exception conferred by or under this section unless evidence is adduced that is sufficient to raise an issue with respect to that exception; but where evidence is so adduced it is for the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the exception does not apply.

I have spent weeks reading through all this and all the changes, and as far as I can tell all that has been done is intended to confuse the issue of whether a car is insured. I hope this helps and maybe someone else in working in law can clarify this if they have time.

I would check with your insurance company if they would cover you under those circumstances. Although the insurance requirement is for the 'use' of the vehicle, most insurance cover for driving other vehicles is 'driving', so the third party cover may only be whilst you are actually driving, not necessarily having the 'use' of the vehicle.

Many years ago they changed the law with regards to insurance cover. It used to be only whilst driving so you had to park the vehicle off the road if it no insurance, this was changed and means the person who has parked it is still responsible for it, on the road or off. However if you drive your own vehicle the insurance then reverts to cover you on your vehicle leaving the parked one without cover, so it could then be classed as uninsured, but then that is for the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the exception does not apply.. My policy clearly states under driving other vehicles 'Third party cover only for the use of another vehicle in my possession ' - plus the normal gumpf of not belonging to or hired to and must be with the owners permission.

As company cars or car pool vehicles and hire vehicles are only covered when actually in use, it questions how these will be affected too. Hire car companies are not going to be sorning and re-taxing every time a car is returned then hired out days later.

Yes this change is a pain in the ass,and is confusing many.

i am new to this site, just got a fied penalty notice for failure to insure my motor bike!

my bike is in my garage, i didnt renew my insurance a few months back as i simply could not afford the new high costs (gone from £400 p/y to over £2000),

my tax was valid until september and to be honest didnt think about it until the reminder to re tax came and i sorn'd it. now a month later i get a fine for not sorn'ing it when the insurance ran out! surely you have to be aware of a law to not brake it and as i have not taken it out of my garage i have not done anything wrong. what can i do now? please help!!

From 1st.January 20011,if there is no record on the MID (Motor Insurance Database) showing a vehicle is insured,which has not been declared as off road by a Sorn,the registered keeper will recieve a warning letter advising of a fine,prosecution,or clamping.

Did you not receive a "warning" letter as suggested in the original post?

no the first i even heard of this new act was the final notice i got today! i spoke to a manager a mrs smith (LOL), and she informed me a leflet was sent earlier this year (news to me) and a fixed penalty notice with an option to pay a smaller amount of £50 was sent 25/08/11! (again news to me)

what upsets me as i had no idea or i would have simple sorn it months ago

The link in the first post takes you to the updated regulations.