I have a couple of questions that im hoping somebody might be able to answer and help me understand. Let me outline what happened first, last june the problems with my back came with a vengeance and had to cut my hours from 16 to 8hrs and the last payment i recieved from working tax was in July. I receieved a letter from HB telling me that my benefit had been cancelled and that i had been overpaid, then i would get another letter stating i was getting it again and this went on weekly sometimes, and everytime it was it had been cancelled, it was another £200+ overpayment. I had next to nothing to live on £201 mth, it wasn't until October that i finally got a payment from Incapacity but mean while i was getting into lots of arrears and all these over payments that just kept mounting up. Am i missing something because i just cant get my head around the fact my hours were reduced not increased and there were no changes happening with me but still the housing benefit letters kept arriving. What was expected for me to pay for rent and council tax was double what i actually had a mth. They knew how much i earned from my wage my slips. This has been going on now since last june, i did manage to get a solicitor and it was his opinion that something,was very wrong,he did try to get an appointment with somebody so we could go through everything but he was told they didnt make appointments and what he was asking to do would take a very long time. Incapacity stopped this August as it was under permitted work, i couldn't get any help from any benefit and the little amount HB gave me, left me in a really bad situation, rent 72.68 a wk and council tax £130 mth = £420.72 my wages £210 and £171 that they said my daughter should pay towards rent and tax is only £381.20 total. I am so fed up with all these letters and its making me sick with worry, i have already had a notice of possesion (about a mth ago) I had to ask my manager if i could get my old hours back, even though it was against medical advise, there wasnt any other option. Hb was informed my hours were 16 again and that i had made a new claim for working tax ,my wage slip was forwarded to them but i had only been paid for my old hours,i finally heard from working tax around 26th Oct but have since had another cancelled housing benefit letter with them claiming they have overpaid me yet again, for the amount of £298 ( i have been told what i owe is a £1,000 + ) on the back page,the dates given for this overpayment are = 20 Oct 2008 to 26 Oct 2008 27 Oct 2008 to 31 March 2009. How can they overpay me for next year, or am i reading it wrong? Can anyone advise me what i can do, surley i cant be expected to pay amounts that im not even getting, all my utilities are in debt, i owe everybody now. Any help would be much appreciated

Thanks

Ali

this is a link to the utilities trust fund

United Utilities Trust Fund

they are a charity and you apply online or download application form.

they have the ability to have your debt written off.

British Gas Energy Trust

An independent Charitable Trust established in September 2004 which aims to contribute to the fight against poverty. (To apply the applicant must be a customer of British Gas or Scottish Gas)

British Gas Energy Trust website

EDF Energy Trust

An independent Charitable Trust offering financial assistance to those in hardship to pay their energy bills. (To apply the applicant must be a customer of London Energy, SWEB Energy, SEEBOARD Energy or Virgin HomeEnergy.)

EDF Energy Trust website

Eos Foundation

An independent Charitable Trust offering financial assistance to those in hardship to pay their water and sewerage bills (to be eligible applicants must be a customer of one of the donor companies.)

Eos Foundation website

Severn Trent Trust Fund

An independent Charitable Trust offering financial assistance to those in hardship to pay their water and sewerage bills.

Severn Trent Trust Fund website

Joblinks

An online searchable database of charities and benevolent funds able to help people in need

Joblinks website

The list above is not meant to be exhaustive and represents the infomation found so far. There may be other trusts that can also help, please add details of any other organizations to this list.

If you are a member of a union it may be possible for them to offer assistance through their own welfare schemes.

you need to sort out your income first as you need to show these charities you are able to meet future payments and are taking positive steps.

i am just a basic member and im sure a site team member will be along to answer your benefit question.

Thanks, i will definetely look into the links you have given me before this i had never been in debt, i just can't except that somebody looks at all your income and then decides, we will tell her shes to pay double, it's not possible, if it were i would of done it. I appreciate your responding thanks again

no problem. good luck.

HI and welcome to the forum.

I have a couple of question if you don't mind

1: do you live in a local authority house or is it housing association?

2: Are they claiming to have overpaid you housing benefit and council tax benefit?

3: Without giving too much information out could you tell me which local authority it is? (if you don't want to give that out you can private message me)

I have personal experience of how councils can muck things up.

fox

Hi, i did reply to you yesturday when i got the email i had a response, im not sure why its not here now Nevermind, i will reply again , i live in a council town house and the states it's an overpayment of council tax benefit but every time i get a letter from them saying they have overpaid me, another letter comes the very next day informing me because of the overpayment i am in arrears and always its a large amount. The authority is london borough of harrow. I really dont know what to do with all this, it really get you down, i know they want me to move to a smaller place, it has crossed my mind that because of all the pressure they have put me through, that whether that was part of it. I do intend to move but i don't want to move to just any place.

Any help or advice you can offer would be great.

Many thanks (hopefully, this will show)

Hi again.

No I didn't see your post yesterday either (gremlins?)

First things first-COMPLAIN. I've just checked out the harrow council homepage and you can do it online however, I would deliver it in person if at all possible and if you do that make sure you get a receipt stating that you have delivered it and to which department the letter is addressed (Housing and council tax benefits)

Next, send a copy of your complaint to your local councillor AND to your MP. Councils don't like their dirty laundry airing in public.

If you believe that the council have made errors in the way your benefit has been worked out, there is a solution to that as well.

So long as you have made the council aware of any changes in wages or other income then you could try this route.

I don't live in the same area as you but I assume your council should follow the same rules.

Most benefit payments are recoverable UNLESS the council have made a mistake and you were not aware of the mistake at the time the mistake was made. In that respect thay are liable, not you. You can't be held responsible for their mistakes.

If you believe that you should have had more benefit than they say you can ask for a retrospective council tax benefit claim where they can go back quite a way and check all your claims

If your complaint gets you nowhere, escalate it up to the chief executive of the housing department. I've tried to find out on the web but can't find who it is.

Finally, If you think the council are trying to fob you off (even before you contact the chief executive) complain to the Local Government Ombudsman. You can ring them on :

0845 602 1983 or

024 7682 1960 (mon-fri, 8:30-5)

If the council are found to be at fault the ombudsman can order them to change their procedure and/or pay compensation.

You mentioned that they want you to move to a smaller place. Obviously that's your choice but some councils pay existing tenants to move to smaller places but again you would have they final say on that.

I hope that gives you some ideas to play with

Fox

Hi, many, many thanks for your advice, im certainly goin to write a complaint, my only worry is that it makes things worse or its put in the bin, i did contact my local mp and he just said he was sorry he could'nt do anything and had the cheek to wish me luck. I wish i could pay a solicitor someone who knew what they were doing and who would stand up to them and demand to see my file and go through it with a fine tooth comb. With the solicitor i did manage to get on legal aid, who supposedly dealt with the council and peoples problems everyday, well lets just say he depicted that saying " you get what you pay for " and thats what i got 'nothing' i had to write my own letters etc got shot of him! In regards to my making a mistake, i did but it was an honest mistake also when they said i had to make another claim a few times actually i always made sure i put the date i wanted it back dated but they never did it and that in itsself caused big problems. As for the moving part, yes if i move i would get, i believe its 1,000 or maybe £500 i cant recall now BUT it was put to me if i moved, with the money i would of gotten it would go straight to the debt as with the moving money they give you. I want to move but it has to be close to work as i have big trouble walking,unless i get a lift from a work friend i have to pay for cabs to and from work and i dont want to move to an estate around here its too rough. I'm not being stubborn or anything, im just being careful because i know i wont be moving again if that makes sense

Again thanks for your advice i really appreciate it

A good reply there.

OK, as regards to making things worse by complaining. There is always a chance that they will but if it can be proved they acted maliciously, the ombudsman will not be happy.

Your MP works for you. That is what he was elected for!

As for seeing your file, I'm going to ask around the forum about a Subject Access Request. These cost £10 and i think that the rules on S.A.R apply to the council too as they handle data.

I'm assuming they are reducing your benefit to repay the overpayment but if that is causing hardship you can ask them to reduce the amount they take off you but obviously this will take longer to pay back.

With moving, you can always negotiate with them to agree that any money paid will go to you and not the debt. You can stipulate the areas you will consider too.

slightly off track here but have you claimed Disability Living Allowance?

If you are having difficulty walking then there is help out there. DLA is not means tested

From what you have told me, it seems that you already have grounds to go to the ombudsman.

Please make sure that if you do go to the ombudsman that you put a summary of your complaint first and how you would like the outcome to be.

There is no quick fix to this but by persevering you will find that the council are not as big as they think they are. they have to follow the rules too and when they don't they get hit hard.

keep us updated and I'll search out the info for you.

fox

Hi, well it's hard to prove they were malicious, they don't care how their conflicting letters affect a person, i was asked for very same wage slips 3 times, all in a matter of a month, i send paperwork they ask for and they try to call me a liar and so it goes on .. I was getting disability back 90's it ended in 2004 but for something else. I did request another form to fill in and that so called solicitor said to me " now you must let me help you with that, it's quite complicated" and he was right i just couldn't measure the distance that the pain started or how much distance before i had to stop, most often than not the pain is there on the off and as walking makes it alot worse i don't go out, it's work and back home, i cant even walk my dog ( i hate it) Went off track there sorry, the bottom line was he took the form and promised he would have it done in plenty of time for me to post it and get it back on or before the date it stated, the day before i was calling and i know he was in but receptionist told me he was at court so i got my daughter to go down and pick it up, he was in and the form wasn't touched, i didn't want to send it late so didn't bother. I might try again but it goes against you if you have applied before and not followed up. I have to see an orthapedic doctor next week, im praying he can help, i will see what he says and based on that i will apply again. Trouble is, having pain due to back or spine problems,people tend to think its nothing but an ache and it's very hard to prove, im assuming alot of people use the back as an excuse for benefit the DLA form is so complicated. Anyway, back to your message i would find the £10.00 BUT not too sure what i would be looking for, i can't even understand what they send me now! What does really confuse me, everytime they send me a hb decision notification letter, there is never just the one page,there are 8 pages, i have no idea why but on some of the pages they have gone back to Oct 05 and thats one they sent me in May 08 it has different months and different years from 05 to 08, do you any idea why that would be relevant to my claim now? As for your remark about how big they think they are, how you right are there, this council has it spread in local papers bragging how their the No.1 authority to get whats owed to them, they are very hard on people who have problems paying, their certainly not people friendly thats for sure lol As for asking them to reduce what they take for overpayment, i did but they wouldn't except it and i had to pay 30.00 a week in rent arrears also because of overpayment, there is no

negotiating with them. Where would i find the address for the ombudsman? who is he exactly?

I have just re-read what i have written and im all over the place, i hope you can make a bit of sense out of it, its been one of those days a real scatter brain ..

Anyway, thanks again for all your help, it really does help to take some of the stress off .

Fox - SAR for councils - it depends on the Council how they work. I know for instance one Council in the West Midlands who charges by the hour and someone who had requested information from all the benefit agencies finished up with a £200 bill. However, some councils will actually let you go and have a look whats on file for nothing under the Freedom of Information Act. Its something they will need to contact their council direct and ask if they charge for obtaining information or how can it be viewed.

Hi,

According to the ombudsmans website the address is:

Tony Redmond

Local Government Ombudsman

10th Floor

Millbank Tower

Millbank

London

SW1P 4QP

Tel: 020 7217 4620

From your last post it seems that the Ombudsman is the way to go as you've had this problem with the council for a while with no success so far.

Sending you forms from as far back as that makes no sense. It would be worth( in my opinion) to try and get an appointment with somebody high up in the benefits section to explain why they sent all that paperwork. The way I did it was to complain to the chief executive of my council. He didn't like his cosy life being disturbed so my complaint filtered down to the minions who sorted it out for me.

Keep all paperwork sent by the council, even envelopes. Sounds silly I know but if there is a dispute about when letters were sent, postmarks prove a lot. If you have had threatening letters from the council, keep them. Make copies of all correspondence and build up a file for the ombudsman. If you can explain as clearly as possible to them it makes it easier for them and they appreciate your help.With my dealings with the ombudsman they were very helpful and friendly throughout but they never took sides. If they feel you have been badly treated they will hit the council where it hurts, in the pocket.

All you have to do in the meantime is be strong, keep the council informed of any changes in wages (up or down) and keep paying or else they'll take you to court. If that happens I will get one of the site team to jump in and help because that's when it gets beyond me.

keep me updated.

fox

Have you seen a welfare rights officer?

HI surprise,

Glad to see you've found this thread. Your input would be greatly appreciated. I checked on the information commisioners website and they state that for most SAR requests the charge is £10. Freedom of Information requests are expensive if the amount of paperwork is a lot.

I do appreciate that some SAR's will cost more but before that happens they have to inform you.

fox

Good point gizmo

Hi gizmo by welfare rights do you mean an advisor that tells you which benefit you might be entitled to? ( excuse my thickness) If you did then yes i have but i couldn't claim Income support like she told me, i could only claim jobseekers, which i couldn't because i had a job already, i can't believe how hard it is to get any help. Fox, i cant pay what they want, i just dont have it anywhere, i have the rent for this month and the rest of the arrears i was going to pay off but not only has rent gone up but arrears also .I have been looking over the hb dates and the 2 rent statements i recieved and to be honest i wish i hadn't now because their figures don't make sense either, see what you think, I started doing 16 hrs on the 23rd Sept, i recieved a rent statement on the 8th Oct which says i am £74.31 in arrears, then on the 30th Oct obviously my rent went up through increasing hrs, which i expected but the arrears have jumped from 74.31 to a big £314.04 and i have been trying to work out how they would of come to that figure and the only way surely, is if they have had my working a good 16 weeks instead of 7 or am i working it out wrong? I have asked many times to see someone they just dont want to know. I do have all my old letters dating back to 2005 but not envelopes(will keep them in future) I will see what arrives today from them, im sure i will have something, in meantime i will start to draft letter for the Ombudsman, do i send all letters as well?

afternoon chumaokeya.

sorry I've not replied earlier but I've been at the hospital all morming.

Yes send copies of everything the council have sent you and any written repliesyou have sent. Keep all originals. Put all letters in date order. Start your letter with a brief summary of the complaint and after that do a fuller disclosure. try to remember everything you're not happy about and include it including how NOT helpful the council have been.

If at all possible, give the ombudsman a number you can be contacted on and include times you won't be able to answer. They only ring when they need more info and they're always polite so don't worry about answering them.

At the end of your complaint, as I've said, put how you would like to see your complaint handled and the outcome you would prefer. It may not happen that way but at least the ombudsman will have some idea.

It may happen that the ombudsman will speak to the council first and get them to handle the complaint internally which is fine as the ombudsman will close your file but keep hold of your complaint should the council renege on their agreement to investigate.

If the council don't do as promised, you can then resurrect the original complaint

When you saw the welfare rights officer, was it at the council?

Is this getting to you as I saw what time you posted your last post?

fox:-?

Hi, yes to be honest i have been under pressure from these people since last year, non stop! I can't sleep with wondering about what i am going to do and the pain i'm in 'both' feel like they have been digging away at me and there's nothing left now (sadly lack of sleep doesn't help matters) I called hb today to try to get them to explain where £314.04 rent arrears came from and this latest overpayment of £29 came from, he said that it was this current overpayment arrears that i had to pay back and i said but you stop £10.00 a week already. Is that how they get it quicker by using the rent account to show arrears also? I liked it better when things like income support and other benefits were all under one roof as it were and same as housing and rent etc they have different offices now, in different countys and not one of them communicate with the other He didn't sound too sure himself so it wasn't fruitful, in fact from the conversation or lack of it, i think the man might of knew less than me, it wasn't his fault i guess. He went off to ask someone, then came back and told me i had to wait for the decision but from his muttering outloud while reading the notes on file, it all originates from July 07,thats when child tax stopped, working tax stopped in the june i think, also child benefit stopped and ontop of that they suspended my claim because they said i didn't give them the information they asked me for and i did! I think i even went down and gave it in person but he said it could of been anyone of those issues, not too sure what he mean't exactly, so am im still no wiser.

You said in your first response that you knew that they messed up, have you been on the short end of the stick with them then?

I'm all for them catching the people who claim and are just out to get what they can for free but they tend to treat everyone as if their trying to con them and are lying, before you even open your mouth, the people down this end def need a crash course in communication and customer service. You said you up the hospital all day, i hope everything is ok ,was it for yourself?

all the best

Ali

Hiya,

Until you start getting reasonable responses from the council, you are not going to know what is what. With the complaints, people will (hopefully) start looking a bit more closely at your case. While you are doing what youare doing with your complaint and ombudsman there is little you can do to help yourself except believe that they have made a mistake. If the council go for a county court judgement against you there are lots of good people on here who can help you with a defence. If that happens, we'll all muck in to give you the best advice possible. A previous poster, Surprise, may be able to help.

I won't bore you too much with my hassles with my local council(leicester city council) but my complaint lasted 4 years and my ombudsman claim took nearly two years to sort. In the end I was vindicated as the ombudsman found serious failings with my council, chiefly no one department would talk to another. Sound familiar?

I started off with a debt of £1000 but after complaining I got backdated housing benefit, all legal charges cancelled, I had to pay £350 in arrears but I got £200 compensation through the ombudsman. Strangely enough, whenever my name comes across the councils desk, things get done. I'm in the process of helping my daughter, who has learning problems, deal with a similar problem as yours. The council don't like me because i won't let them brush me off with pure fluff and no substance. The biggest bugbear is that i have a relative who is a councillor and I can't use him as his position would be compromised and I won't do that.

Yes I was at the hospital from 8 till 12 today. I have Crohns disease and I've been having a year long course of immuno-suppressant drugs. I went every 8 weeks but today was my last one until I have another crisis. They don't like me to have any more as it costs £1500+ per treatment. I don't mind because i've not been admitted once this year whilst i got admitted 4 times last year and 3 times the year before.

so there you have it. Although i'm ill, being on this forum gives me some purpose as i can pass on my experiences to others.

You try and have a restful weekend and don't let the Ba*****s get you down :-D:-D

fox