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    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Hardship and FOS


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The Financial Ombudsman will still process claims where people are suffering from hardship. Furthermore they have considered and settled cases where a claim has been started in the courts but the case has been stayed.

 

If you are suffering from hardship and have started the process you should make sure your bank is aware that you are suffering from hardship. If you are about to do your preliminary letter you should point out in that letter that you are suffering from financial hardship and therefore the bank has a duty under the FSA waiver agreement to process your claim. Give a brief outline of your circumstances and provide evidence if required.

 

If your bank refuses to process your claim you should report them immediately to the FSA. This is a clear breach of the waiver agreement and the FSA are currently reviewing the waiver. The more evidence they have of the banks abusing the waiver the more likely the FSA will lift the waiver.

 

If the bank processes your claim they should write to you within 8 weeks telling you of the outcome of their enquiry. If the result is unsatisfactory you can then take your complaint to the Ombudsman.

 

The waiver agreement does not apply to the courts. The FSA does not have the power to compel the courts to do anything. Thus the courts are not obliged to lift stays on the grounds of hardship, although, they are obliged to consider cases on the individual merits and some courts may be persuaded to lift stays where a stay would cause hardship.

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Nice one Zoot.

 

I have just sent a email to the CEO of HSBC saying the exact same thing although the FOS have already taken my case and asked them to investiage under the Hardship Rule. I also have had my case stayed at Court . I have attached documentation to support so will now wait to see if I get a reply.

 

Chris:)

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  • 2 weeks later...

there is an announcement on the site today about gathering info on hardhship cases

 

jan

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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  • 1 month later...

ok further update (still talkin to myself?)

just recieved a letter from Nationwide acknowledging the FOS complaint letter, NW state their 8 weeks exspires 17 jan 08

in the mean time they ask that i fill in a ' income and expenditure form'

i'll assume this is standard? and i should fill it out? and enclose a covering letter stating my case?

should i still get S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)? see other thread, all i've done so far is call FOS

anything else?

p s to MOD's if i reposted this too many times, please delete those incorrectly placed

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  • 3 months later...

you should point out in that letter that you are suffering from financial hardship and therefore the bank has a duty under the FSA waiver agreement to process your claim.

 

Anywhere I can copy & quote the waiver agreement in my letter to Alliance & Leicester? They already refused to pay out even though I sent them details of my debt management plan and filled out an income & expenditure form.

Banofi :|

Lloyds *WON* £1469.82 :-D

NatWest *WON* £1177.00. :-D

Morgan Stanley *WON* £112 :)

Barclaycard *WON* £144 :)

Nationwide LBA 22nd Sept 2006. Court claim filed for £5792.29 31st July 2007.

Lloyds Credit Card flatly refused to pay me on 11/12/2006.

Egg Credit Card. Small offer made (£24.00). 17/2/2007, refusal letter sent 18/2/2007.

Useful links:

www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/23608

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  • 2 weeks later...

hi

I've read about the hardship thing, and no-one seems to explain or say what exactly the grounds for hardship is.

I've had a nightmare with Barclays, and just recieved a letter saying about how claims are suspended due to case etc.

I'm a single mum of 2, was working 4hrs per week,

(all i'm allowed, unless I do 16hrs with child tax credit thing, and would end up £15 better off each week, working for less than £1 an hour basically, lol thats another thread methinks)

but now rely on benefits to survive, no help from kids dad either. I went overdrawn by £7.82 just after xmas, bills, DD, etc. and its had a complete snowball effect, they added £30, then a week later another £60 and so on. As I get £110.00PER WEEK for myself and 2 kids I ended up losing 2 weeks money in charges, and they're now demanding I pay a further £147.00 as my DD and bills were not covered and again gets another charge plonked on top. I'm behind with my water and gas, and of course xmas stuff I got via catalogues and stuff. I have contact debt agency and they said offer £10per week to each creditor, which leaves me £30per week to live on and pay gas, electric etc. I has also read a few times that if your on benefits you can't go through the small claims court.......anyone with any help would be gratefully recieved.

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  • 2 weeks later...

ZOOTSCOOT,

 

May I ask why if the Banks are waiting for the OFT to adjudicate are they still stealing bank charges?

It seems an absolute ridiculous set up, I alone have had £180 stolen this week.

They should NOT be allowed to have it both ways, i.e. NOT settle fairly and TAKE charges.

I would have thought they should have been asked to stop until the OFT settled on an amount

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  • 3 months later...

I have asked Lloyds TSB's solictors to lift the stay that is in place on the grounds of hardship. And under the banking code acordingly.

 

However they say there position stands and they would advise there client that the best course of action would be to keep the stay in place.

 

What doI do should i go staight to court?

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein

 

"No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent" - E. Roosevelt

 

 

Don't lie, thieve, cheat or steal. The Government do not like the competition.

 

 

All advice is offered without prejudice.

We are being sued for Libel. Please help us by donating

 

Please support the pettition to remove Gordon Brown as he was not elected primeinister. He was elected Party Leader something completely different.

 

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Hardship cases should continued to be referred to FOS as per terms of the waiver

 

Also wait for the CC on 6/7th July for more guidance

 

Annoyed from caerphilly - A &L has a good letter to try as well

 

lSuccess at A and L via hardship case route

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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  • 5 months later...

Quick question

 

I sent my prelim letter to Lloyds as part of a huge 4 point complaint more than 8 weeks ago and have had no response - does this mean the FOS may take it up - as 2 parts of the same letter are PPI related and the FOS is taking them on I will be sending the complete Complaint including teh charges bit to the FOS and asking them to consider that as a separate complaint anyyway

If you can keep you head when all of those around you are losing theirs try parking your helicopter somewhere else

 

 

The PPI Saga

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Quick question

 

I sent my prelim letter to Lloyds as part of a huge 4 point complaint more than 8 weeks ago and have had no response - does this mean the FOS may take it up - as 2 parts of the same letter are PPI related and the FOS is taking them on I will be sending the complete Complaint including teh charges bit to the FOS and asking them to consider that as a separate complaint anyyway

My personal opinion is that PPI and bank charges claims should be split up for two reasons. (1) Bank Charges could be claimed is subject to the OFT test case and that the method of approaching the bank with a Hardship case is slightly different to PPI. (2) simply becuase the likelyhood is that two completely separate teams would deal with PPI and Bank Charges.

Saying that, no response after 8 weeks gives you cause to go to the FOS. With regards to Financial Hardship please see my signature for the FSA Waiver on Bank Charges PAGE 11, is about financial hardship. I would expect them to send you out an income and expenditure form to complete as part of the FSA waiver. I am sure the PPI guys can comment on what happens with that side of the claim, which I am unable to do.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Thanks Yourbank

 

They are split anyway my current FOS reference is for PPI I will only be sending the banks charges stuff as it was part of the last letter I sent to Lloyds

 

I suspect even the PPI bit will be split as there are two very distinct issues in there for different loans

 

The Charges bit was the standard template letter with the bit stating that I thought I would fall outside of the waiver on hardship grounds which they have failed to respond to - it all went to one person who then farmed it out to two different departments I have confirmation of this. I will ring the FOS before I send it all off to see if they will raise a second complaint for the charges

 

I will now try to find one of your posts that isn't a quick reply as your signiture isn't on the above post - just like the link to my PPI thrtead isn't on mine :)

If you can keep you head when all of those around you are losing theirs try parking your helicopter somewhere else

 

 

The PPI Saga

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try my profile. Apologies, but I have signature switched off, because it can sometimes be more distracting that the actual words that are said in the post. Apologies.

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/disp_monthly.pdf

Have included the link in this post.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Thanks I found it on your profile - just been reading some other interesting stuff - at the moment they have been persuing debt collecting activity on teh overdraft which is entirely charges I am trying to work out how that leaves it if I send a LBA now as if I am reading it right even on those grounds they may have breached the conditions of the stay

If you can keep you head when all of those around you are losing theirs try parking your helicopter somewhere else

 

 

The PPI Saga

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  • 4 weeks later...

I wish I'd realised about the hardship angle a year or so ago, when A+L were continuing to screw me for charges and my claim was stayed by the court. My case (at the time) met some of the criteria, namely repeatedly returned payments and repeatedly exceeding my limit. The FSA's threshold of incurring over £500 in 12 months is interesting, since A+L took £1324 off me in only 9 months. They eventually closed my account, for which I went to the FOS.

 

Can I make any use of the hardship angle? My thread is here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester/116021-loz-l-direct-debit-2.html

 

Cheers

Loz

I hate Alliance + Leicester

BT: No longer a customer :)

HSBC: £1222 refunded 28/5/06; Second claim of £737-24 refunded 9/11/06; PPI + interest on personal loan refunded 27/7/08

MBNA: £100 refunded on first claim of £112; £208 refunded on second claim for £108 24/9/07; PPI £256-28 refunded 8/4/08

NatWest: £1581-71 refunded 16/12/06; personal loan CCA agreement not provided

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm so confused now. I've read so many websites and forums that I'm not that much wiser. My case with HSBC for just under £2k has been stayed since last August. I now have mortgage arrears of £5k and assume I would qualify to have the stay lifted under hardship? I have downloaded a form N244 but don't know how to answer the questions i.e. do I want a hearing, do I have an draft order or summary application of facts. Should I approach the FOC or apply to the court to have the stay lifted? Under the circumstances, the fastest route is preferable.

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  • 1 month later...

Have just been through this process and so far only got HSBC to refund 1 month charges of £150, they also not agree I am suffering financial hardship after taking out £200 per month for a year from my benefit and pension income which leaves me owing rent and their credit card payments! I pointed out one of their staff suggested raising cash from the credit card - bad advice - and have been pressured from HSBC credit card to up payments even though they had hardship case in front of them. What are they playing at!!!!Won a refund charges case against them in 2006 and to hear them on the phone today you would think I was the one who had robbed the bank!! You gotta laugh!

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Have just been through this process and so far only got HSBC to refund 1 month charges of £150, they also not agree I am suffering financial hardship after taking out £200 per month for a year from my benefit and pension income which leaves me owing rent and their credit card payments! I pointed out one of their staff suggested raising cash from the credit card - bad advice - and have been pressured from HSBC credit card to up payments even though they had hardship case in front of them. What are they playing at!!!!Won a refund charges case against them in 2006 and to hear them on the phone today you would think I was the one who had robbed the bank!! You gotta laugh!

 

Is your rent arrears higher than the £150 they are refunding? If it is, I would probably press for more on that basis.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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  • 6 months later...

Does anyone have the address to complain to the FSA about banks not meeting their waiver obligations?

 

Ive sent in all the paper work, gone through it with HSBC and after 2 months got a reply to my final warning letter saying I gotta send in all the paper work before they will look at my hardship case!

 

These guys are taking the p1ss big time! :mad:

 

Regards

 

Mailman

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You need to complain to the OFT.

You can do this online from their website.

 

Here is the link to email

 

 

[email protected].

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Does anyone have the address to complain to the FSA about banks not meeting their waiver obligations?

 

Ive sent in all the paper work, gone through it with HSBC and after 2 months got a reply to my final warning letter saying I gotta send in all the paper work before they will look at my hardship case!

 

These guys are taking the p1ss big time! :mad:

 

Regards

 

Mailman

 

Hi Mailman:)

 

I wrote to -

 

The Waivers Team

The Financial Services Authority

25 The North Colonnade

Canary Wharf

London

E14 5HS

 

My complaint was about LTSB breaching the terms of the waiver regarding hardship. The FSA responded saying that the information contained in my complaint would be 'considered from a regulatory point of view only, and not with any view to resolve your complaint against LTSB.'

 

They also stated that - 'A copy of your letter..........has been passed to the department responsible for granting waivers and monitoring firms' compliance with the waiver and associated conditions for its consideration.'

 

Hope this helps!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

  • Haha 1

LTSB PPI on various loans (current/settled) - Refunded inc 8%

 

MBNA 1 Charges - Refunded inc CI

 

MBNA 1 PPI - Refunded

 

MBNA 2 Charges - Refunded inc 8%

 

MBNA 2 PPI - Refunded

 

MBNA 2 Accident Ins - Refunded

 

Swift Advances (settled) Mortgage Charges -Partially refunded

 

Swift Advances (settled) Mortgage PPI - Refunded inc CI & 8%

 

Sainsburys (settled) Loan PPI - Refunded inc CI +8%

 

Sainsburys (closed) Card Charges - Refunded inc CI + 8%

 

M&S Money (closed) Card Charges - Refunded inc CI

 

M&S Money (closed) Card PPI - Refunded inc 8%

 

Direct Line (settled) Loan PPI - Refunded inc CI + 8%

 

Debenhams Card (closed) PPI - Refunded inc 8%

 

Swift Mortgage Charges -Refunded

 

Hitachi Finance (closed) Charges - Refunded

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Good info Landy-I wasnt aware of this.Green blob for you too.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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