https://uk.yahoo.com/news/real-reason-theresa-may-didnt-sign-dup-deal-075720047.html

With Mrs May now regarded as a weak leader of her party, many believe it is only a matter of time before she either resigns or is forced out by her own party.

 

And by keeping her name off the deal, Tories would be able to replace her without a deal signed by her collapsing – resulting in a likely second general election.

If they are concerned about her being replaced and any deal signed by her collapsing.. it must mean that the rest of government agree with the deal ! Or are they so scared that they will definitely lose if they went to the country again ?

Obviously Corbyn knows something we dont as he claims he will be prime minister in 6 months time ?

Jeremy Corbyn has said he will be Prime Minister in six months, according to the founder of Glastonbury Festival.

 

Michael Eavis also said the Labour leader suggested he would scrap Britain's Trident nuclear defence "as soon as I can.".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-prime-minister-labour-minority-government-theresa-may-hung-parliament-conservatives-a7807886.html

If they are concerned about her being replaced and any deal signed by her collapsing.. it must mean that the rest of government agree with the deal ! Or are they so scared that they will definitely lose if they went to the country again ?

 

Obviously Corbyn knows something we dont as he claims he will be prime minister in 6 months time ?

If Adams votes against May and the DUP (mixed feeling no doubt as there is a Billion extra for NI) then it would be the end of May and probably a new election.

Almost everyone including major bank strategists think there will be a general election within12 months at the outside, and almost certainly far sooner than that.

Issue is few want the toxic seat except power mad crazies.

There is no upside in this. I was torn between out and in right up to the week or so before the referendumn and until I looked deeper seemed a swings and roundabouts sort of choice with remain being the safer option despite some irritating stuff from the EU.

BUT the more I investigated and learned, the more certain I was that there was NO upside to voting leave.

None whatsoever.

Its here in the threads to see. I don't think many people would have put the effort into 'looking into it' that I did, nor would I expect them too. I'm just made that way.

My opinion has become even more certain the more I have learned since.

Now there is no upside to any choice. It IS a matter of damage limitation, and the Torys who brought all this down on our heads are certainly NOT the people to clean it up as they are still driven by the same self interests.

Can anybody clear this up?

Darn good question

Corbyn? - No - he's driven by his own passions and is as uncaring about others opinion as the Torys, but he might be a less worse option than May/Johnson/Gove/Rudd/Leadsom.

The ONLY rational next step is

Lay the truth out on the table (wont happen as Senior politicians would have to admit they lied and manipulated for their political ambitions) and have a fresh simple choice referendum

Exit the EU - no deals - just exit - and if the vote says do that - do it

Withdraw our withdrawel if we can (this would have to be clarified with the EU BEFORE the referendum)

Apart from it happening at all. let alone in the shockingly manipulated way it did, the other major issue with the referendum was it didn't clarify that voting leave means leave - end of (they apparently weren't expecting it - and still aren't prepared in any way)

- anything except a simple GOODBYE would and should have to be done from within the EU not by some mardy 'we're taking our toys home if you dont play my game' BS. But of course our politicians would need to drive what the people wanted - NOT their own interpretations based on their own agendas. So we dont really stand a chance short of revolution.

If Adams votes against May and the DUP (mixed feeling no doubt as there is a Billion extra for NI) then it would be the end of May and probably a new election.

 

Almost everyone including major bank strategists think there will be a general election within12 months at the outside, and almost certainly far sooner than that.

 

Issue is few want the toxic seat except power mad crazies.

 

 

There is no upside in this. I was torn between out and in right up to the week or so before the referendumn and until I looked deeper seemed a swings and roundabouts sort of choice with remain being the safer option despite some irritating stuff from the EU.

 

BUT the more I investigated and learned, the more certain I was that there was NO upside to voting leave.

None whatsoever.

Its here in the threads to see. I don't think many people would have put the effort into 'looking into it' that I did, nor would I expect them too. I'm just made that way.

My opinion has become even more certain the more I have learned since.

 

 

 

Now there is no upside to any choice. It IS a matter of damage limitation, and the Torys who brought all this down on our heads are certainly NOT the people to clean it up as they are still driven by the same self interests.

 

Can anybody clear this up?

Darn good question

 

Corbyn? - No - he's driven by his own passions and is as uncaring about others opinion as the Torys, but he might be a less worse option than May/Johnson/Gove/Rudd/Leadsom.

 

The ONLY rational next step is

Lay the truth out on the table (wont happen as Senior politicians would have to admit they lied and manipulated for their political ambitions) and have a fresh simple choice referendum

 

Exit the EU - no deals - just exit - and if the vote says do that - do it

Withdraw our withdrawel if we can (this would have to be clarified with the EU BEFORE the referendum)

 

 

 

Apart from it happening at all. let alone in the shockingly manipulated way it did, the other major issue with the referendum was it didn't clarify that voting leave means leave - end of (they apparently weren't expecting it - and still aren't prepared in any way)

- anything except a simple GOODBYE would and should have to be done from within the EU not by some mardy 'we're taking our toys home if you dont play my game' BS. But of course our politicians would need to drive what the people wanted - NOT their own interpretations based on their own agendas. So we dont really stand a chance short of revolution.

Where do I sign up !

 

Corbyn? - No - he's driven by his own passions and is as uncaring about others opinion as the Tories, but he might be a less worse option than May/Johnson/Gove/Rudd/Leadsom.

.

Interesting that you say Corbyn is uncaring. What makes you say this?

Interesting that you say Corbyn is uncaring. What makes you say this?

I didnt say that at all now did I?

In fact I said he was driven by his OWN passions, which he unquestionably cares more deeply about than anything else, including any one elses opinions.

He will deceive to achieve, so at core is in my opinion at best no better than the Torys whatever his stated goals.

I want honesty more than anything in our politicians, not stated goals.

just a little reminder and convimcer of what May REALLY wanted a large majority for, and why the Tories want to be able to change the Laws in the 'Great Repel without scrutiny

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/08/lords-defeat-government-over-child-protection-proposals

Lords defeat government over child protection proposals

"The clause 29 powers would allow ministers to permit councils to suspend specific social care legal obligations for a three-year period, with the possibility of a further three-year extension and the option for a permanent exemption if the innovative practices they enable are deemed a success."

maggie kim may says she is in for the long term now!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41106679

She will be gone by Christmas, can see Thatcher and night of the long knives again

Its a bit more complicated than a simple she's useless

This is simply totally embedded in Brexit issues.

Big issues are of course surrounding stances on the EU now the Tories have backed away from social change/attacks - relying on the great repelling.

Simply

- How can a party say they are negotiating 'based on the UK's economic best interests for jobs, growth and security' when that entire concept is now clearly seen to be completely at odds with Brexits breaking ties with our largest, nearest and most important trade partners?

A GREAT deal with EVERYONE else in the world would struggle to match what we have with the EU, and we simply aren't going to get as good a deal with anyone else, let alone EVERYONE else.

The players

Borat WONT want the kiss of death position - he wants it when its all sorted or at least in a state he can blame someone else for all the disasters to follow. It would then suit his Churchill last stand on the beaches (as long as hes safe) complex.

Daffy Davies WILL want it as he's looking a crap negotiator and seeing his rep destroyed anyway as things stand.

Really-Smug+evil Wallace+ Sly Fox will want it under the wing and influence of Murdock, and might bring Farage back in some position.

Rudd will want it.

God knows what the Tory rank and file think of the options

- most keeping their heads down and hoping for a string of miracles it seems - which will suit Borat.

The official front of the Tory Party still want their cake and eat it, which a lot of people did vote for - but simply aren't going to get.

Another chunk of the Tory party want a Tory version of what Labour is now saying - again less of the same but mainly benefiting the financial sector and major business owners (not workers) and clearly NOT what people voted for.

Small but significant Pockets in the Tory party apparently genuinely want to make the best of this bad deal for the nation - nut aren't in power so need to rely on the threat of rebellion, something the majority in the Labour party is generally (with a few notable exceptions) is too frightened to do.

Labour is now apparently wanting to stay in the customs union etc, (ie less of the same) which it seems impossible to legitimately claim anyone voted for.

Doesn't bode well for votes for them if a general election is called and the stance stated by Starmer CLEARLY flies in the face of what Corbyn really wants.

This actually may have cheered the Torys.

LibDems want another referendum as they always have - only option really but unlikely to be a solution, certainly not with the mushroom 'information' tactics of both the major parties..

They need a MAJOR real news information campaign which they cant afford.

Whats really happening with the UK EU negotiations which is causing this speculation on another change of Tory leader and possible general election?

One by one the UK's threat cards have been neutralised by the EU

eg

* EU Trade deal with Japan

* Financiers moving to EU despite stricter EU regulation (which has been relaxed a little for now)

* Even Fishing waters - we would lose at least as much as we gain.

What the UK is left with is

* Irish border - The two parts of Ireland do NOT want a border destroying their economies. especially the UK Norths - so the EU can just sit back and wait for the UK to come up with an acceptable solution otherwise it defaults to a border which the EU will have to fund and manage but with Eire with access to the large market and the North quite possibly following the economic path to unification in the EU (along with their waters)

- Dont forget that might well be the major tipping point for Scotlands folk to choose to secede and partner Ireland - and another border issue for England.

* Citizens rights - where the UK also has at least as much to lose as the EU (including a few million ex-pats with very angry votes)

* Paying the exit bill

So There you see it.

All the UK really has left is the value of its fast reducing market value and the exit bill.

Which is why the UK MUST HAVE the exit and future relationship dealt with together

If they are getting nothing, why pay an exit bill they cant afford?

Farage and Fox will be laughing - told you we should just repeal they will say.

Corbyn will say the Torys have brought us too economic collapse - without ever having offered even the hint of an alternative

LibDems will justifiably say - we said it was the wrong path fot the UK's wellbeing

UK government will clearly look like the useless prats they are.

So how would each Tory faction potentially deal with these issues if in power ?

Borat - doesnt deal with issues.

Smug, Fox and Gove - whatever Murdock says - and he is undoubtedly delighted to see a nation that shamed him destroyed.

others - would be in same position as May is in - so dont want it.

When i saw new post, Theresa May, i thought it was announcement she was going to stand down.

I actually think that on balance, it would help the country if there was a new PM. TM lost credibility at the election and cannot take the country forward.

Brexit negotiatons are going badly and there is no majority in Parliament for Theresa Mays position on Brexit issues. I would think Government will struggle to get the EU withdrawal bill through without amendments they don't agree with.

A major concern is Northern Ireland with their Parliament suspended. Given problems there, i have seen very little leadership by Theresa May. Both Blair and Cameron would have been involved in talks between the different NI parties. There would have been talks between all parties in regard to Brexit and border issues.

Theresa May will come to realise within months that she has to go and be replaced by someone with better leadership skills.

imo, it does seem odd that kjm is still pm.

is it 'cause there is not much better there, or...

Kjm ?

Kjm ?

post #81 guardian link

imo, it does seem odd that kjm is still pm.

is it 'cause there is not much better there, or...

leadership night of the long knives could destroy the Tory party and they know it.

Mind you ... if somebody else did the Brutus ...

Then Labour would be in and Corbyn would use the Henry VIII powers to abolish elections and make himself ruler for life on the basis that he was only doing what May tried to do.

#Wonder if the French have any guillotines going cheap?