Hi,

I was wondering if anybody else has experienced a 01-02 BMW 320 Diesel turbo failure. Mine failed recently and in the process sucked all the oil from the sump and ejected it into the top of the engine and out through the exhaust. I was going less than 30mph at the time and the cloud of smoke ejected from the back end was like an f1 car blowing up. The garage says that it is a common fault and that as a result it needs an engine, turbo and probably cat. It is going to cost thousands. I have spoken with a few others on this matter and several people seem to know of other BMW's that have met the same fate, some only after low mileages.

Anyone else know of any......?

Ta.

Yes, hundreds. Not just on the 3 series either. It's one of the common problems on BMW, that and the computer thingy, the name of which escapes me right now.

Ifyou havent heard of it all ready look at BMW Land - A Drivers Chat Talk Discussion Forum Board for UK BMW cars and owners 3 5 6 7 series Questions & Answers and i am sure someone on there will be able to help you as i know there are a lot of people on the had the same problems

Honest John in the Motoring Telegraph says that BMW turbodiesels tend to have turbo problems after 3-5 years and 60,000 miles +. Not sure if it's on his site: Honest John

Hi I am being taken to court by BMW over a turbo failure!

I handed the car back to BMW "couldn't afford to keep it" and as they where driving it to the auction, bang the turbo gave out with a big plume of smoke. They subsequently sold the car as a non runner!

I am now fighting in court for the £6000 they say I still owe them.

The information that I am searching for is:

A/ Proof of turbo failure in pre 2003 3 series 2ltr turbo diesels

B/ proof that this was well known to BMW

C/ Proof that this can happen regardless of service intervals

D/ Proof that they deliberately chose not to recall and the reasons for this( clutching at straws now)

Any help you are able to give me would be gratefully received I am due in court 2nd January 2007 ( 4 weeks!!!)

Thanks

I assume that you still had an outstanding finance agreement/HP agreement of some sort and you handed it back to them because you couldn't make the repayments or didn't want to pay the final figure?

I'd need to know a bit more about this agreement. How much was left to pay under this agreement? How long had you had the car, and what age/value/mileage was it when you bought it?

BMW need to mitigate their losses by selling on the car, but obviously in this case they sold it for far less than they would otherwise have done had it not developed the fault. However, if the fault was not due to normal wear and tear, this is not your responsibility!

If you had kept the car and this fault had occurred, then you would have had rights to redress (I won't go into detail as your rights will differ depending on what finance agreement you had and I don't have that information). However, regardless of what legislation you are looking at, you would have had the right to a vehicle of satisfactory quality and fit for all normal purposes for that age and mileage. It doesn't seem like a very old car, and it does seem like a very serious fault, so it would appear to me that you would have had a good claim for a repair, or at the very least compensation towards the cost of repair.

I can't be more specific without further details of the car: age, mileage, value; also your type of finance agreement and how long you have had the vehicle.

Needless to say, though, the company should not be able to say they have sold the car as not running and therefore the losses because of this are yours to bear.

It's hard to advise without seeing the credit agreement etc, but in my opinion - although you may well be liable for a settlement figure - this should have been mitigated by the trader selling the car in the condition it should have been in for its age and mileage. You should not be penalised for faults that have occurred since, which are not attributable to normal wear and tear.

Hi I am being taken to court by BMW over a turbo failure!

 

I handed the car back to BMW "couldn't afford to keep it" and as they where driving it to the auction, bang the turbo gave out with a big plume of smoke. They subsequently sold the car as a non runner!

I am now fighting in court for the £6000 they say I still owe them.

The information that I am searching for is:

A/ Proof of turbo failure in pre 2003 3 series 2ltr turbo diesels

B/ proof that this was well known to BMW

C/ Proof that this can happen regardless of service intervals

D/ Proof that they deliberately chose not to recall and the reasons for this( clutching at straws now)

 

Any help you are able to give me would be gratefully received I am due in court 2nd January 2007 ( 4 weeks!!!)

 

Thanks

What you could really do with is to speak to someone who works at a main BMW dealer, either a technician or service advisor. They may be able to give you a rough idea how many vehicles have been affected at their dealer, any actions BMW have taken, any Technical Service Bulitins that BMW have issued about this problem etc . But thats easier said than done.

Have you tried any of the BMW forums? They may be you're best bet if you haven't already tried them.

Tyring to proof those points could be pretty tough though.

Most manufatcurers will only issue a recall if the known issue is safety related.

Just out of interest, are BMW UK taking you to court, or is it you're local BMW agent?

Thanks for your speedy reply.

I will gather as much information as i can over the next day or so to answer all of your questions. Your help with this matter is gratefully appreciated

Thank you so much!

Hi BMWTURBO

When you handed the car back to BMW, it was in working order. Did you get a signature to accept the car back?.

If they accepted the car back in full working order then they may not have a case. Also the driver to the auction may have thrashed the car on the way, you know wheels spins showing off etc. Maybe another angle to try.

Uk. . .

Yes, when i handed the car to the collection agency it was signed for as in “good condition” not the words "in good working order"

During the first hearing i tried to use the defence that the driver could have thrashed the car but this was inadmissible as i could not prove that this was the case. However nor could they prove that he didn't!

I was advised by the judge that the only defence he would hear during the next hearing was if i could prove that the breakdown was as a result of a known fault by BMW namely the turbo blowing on pre 2003 2ltd turbo diesels and that this can happen at any time. If i can prove that this is the case he will deem that the breakdown was not my responsibility therefore i don't owe the money.

I have a big hurdle ahead of me and any further information you are able to provide will be gratefully received.

Thank you so much for your help

What the judge has said sounds a bit odd to me. You should not be penalised for a fault that was not due to normal wear and tear of the car, even if it had occurred while you still owned the car. If it had happened to you, driving along one day, would you have just said, "oh well, these things happen!" and paid up for the repair? Or would you have said, "hang on, this shouldn't be happening in a car of this age and mileage!" and fought a case? I think I know what I would have been saying!

What others have said about looking up info from BMW sounds like a good plan, you might well be able to find some good stuff to back up your case if the problem's pretty widespread.

Any further info you can provide (see my previous post) would help to give a bit more confident advice on your statutory rights.

Thanks Rosie cotton

I will get all of the information i can back to you asap.

thanks again

BMW 320d - Review - BMW320D - Expensive Turbo Failure!

BMW: 3-Series E46 (1998 to 2005) (Lot of text but scroll down to "What's bad?"

BMW 320d - Review - 320d - Potentially expensive failure

www.BMWLand.co.uk - Where Power Meets Control - UK BMW Car chat site Forum :: View topic - 320d Turbo Problems ??

Back Room: BMW320D loss of power

Just had mine go, not a full blown failure (thank God) but a pretty nasty dent in my wallet just the same.

I've just sent the following email off to BMW UK (without much optimism):

Hi,

I am the owner of a BMW 3 Series Compact Reg No. DN52 UAR, the car has covered 73,875 miles.

The car was purchased by myself from new and has been serviced as per the service schedule by Specialist Cars of Leagrave Road, Luton, LU3 1RJ.

Last Saturday the car failed it's MOT test (on emissions) and a diagnostic test undertaken by Specialist Cars (cost £42.30p) indicated that the car required a new Turbo and Intercooler. They also provided me with an estimate to complete this work of £2,400.

I was understandably surprised by the high cost of repair and also the fact that a quality vehicle such as this should suffer from such a failure at a relatively low mileage. You may have on record the fact that the same vehicle suffered a seized rear differential within it's warranty period.

A little web browsing has revealed that Turbocharger failure is a 'known' problem on pre Mid 2003 2.0td engines and to put it mildly they have been going down like flys.

As it is a problem acknowledged by BMW, my 1st question is why wasn't a product recall undertaken when a sudden loss of power is a safety issue.

http://www.theherald.co.za/motor/2003/05/bmwturbo.htm

As the problem is clearly a 'known' design fault my 2nd question is will BMW assist me financially with the rectification work as a goodwill gesture ? The car has now been fitted with a new Turbocharger/Intercooler by AMC of 668-678 Garratt Lane, Earlsfield, London SW17 0NP at a total cost of £1665.79p (£370.00 of which was labour).

I look forward to your reply.

I don't hold out much hope Budfrog if AMC aren't a BMW dealership. If BMW UK pay a goodwill claim then the dealer submits a claim and gains authorisation. BMW UK then pay the dealer at the agreed warranty/trade rate for parts and labour.

To be honest I don't hold up much hope either .... BMW will use any means to avoid payment whether it is morally right or not.

The problem is even if the work had been undertaken at their franchise for £2400 there was no guarantee either and AMC have a good reputation so the £1650 estimate seemed a much better option as I didn't want to just chuck my money away.

I realise compared to others who have suffered 'Total Failure' I may be one of the 'lucky ones'. AMC did say that it wasn't only BMWs that suffered turbo problems but Merc also.

When choosing my next vehicle I will just have to weigh up the benefits (or otherwise) of choosing a TDI. Any recommendations as to which are the most reliable ????

Problem with turbos are that most drivers don't allow them to cool properly by allowing the engine to idle after fast driving or a motorway run. I guess that TDIs tend to be used by a lot of company car drivers who are in a rush and just switch off the engine as they are in a rush.

Honest John in the motoring telegraph says that the main problem is the extended service intervals loved by fleet managers. He recommends halving the service interval and having a basic oil and filter change to extend the life of engines and turbos.

I agree with you about getting AMC to do the work. Merc wanted £5k for a new gearbox for my dads car. We took it to a auto specialist who said that there was nothing wrong with the gearbox and that only the valve body needed changing at a cost of £1,300.

I don't hold out much hope Budfrog if AMC aren't a BMW dealership. If BMW UK pay a goodwill claim then the dealer submits a claim and gains authorisation. BMW UK then pay the dealer at the agreed warranty/trade rate for parts and labour.

You were spot on (but what else did I expect) .....

Dear Mr *****

Thank you for email dated January 19, 2007 regarding your 3 series. We are sorry to learn of the problems that you have experienced with your vehicle.

BMW appreciate that components can reach the end of their serviceable life earlier than we may hope. It is for this reason that we offer customers the opportunity to purchase an extended warranty after the 3 year manufacturers warranty has expired. In the absence of this warranty customers take on the responsibility for any costs that may occur for repair work in the future.

We are aware of unofficial websites where customers log concerns regarding their vehicles. To gauge a more accurate account, BMW UK monitor failure reports via our dealerships. We can advise that the turbo and intercooler have not been highlighted for a recall.

BMW UK will occasionally offer a goodwill contribution to our customers for work carried out at one of our Approved Dealers. BMW UK will not offer a contribution to work carried out at a non-approved dealership.

We are sorry that you have had cause to contact us and apologise that we are unable to assist you further.

Kind regards

Diva Renton-Roderix

Customer Service Executive

BMW Group UK

It's interesting to hear all of the similar stories and that last letter is very interesting. I have a couple of points to make. Firstly, you expect any car to last its lifetime and only have to replace the regular components at service such as filters, oil, brake pads etc. Many of the failures that I have learned about are well within the expected lifetime of the car and are quite specific to the 320d manufactured up to 2002. I believe that this turbo has been superseded at least twice since that time and reliability, as far as I can make out, has been improved. This indicates to me that there was an issue with either the design or components of the original revision indicating to me that this is something that, with BMW's reputation, they should accept responsibility for and correct for those unlucky enough to have the original spec turbo. Secondly, you pay a significant amount extra for a BMW compared to other cars which is partly for the peace of mind that the car you are buying is well designed, is build using the best components, has the best after sales service and is going to last. I personally have a different opinion now to the opinion I had when my new BMW was delivered. The car has now been repaired and had a new engine and turbo and is due to be replaced. I had been considering a 5 series but I will not now be going down that road. Yes, they are nice cars but I could not put up with the expense and hassle that this has caused again. These are my personal opinions only.

To gauge a more accurate account, BMW UK monitor failure reports via our dealerships

This system is clearly flawed as many customers have to use independant garages for their repairs due to the high cost of those undertaken by BMW.

I too was thinking of the 5 series (3.0td) as a replavcement for my current vehicle but will probably look elesewhere having been dissapointed by the quality of the BMW product and the attitude of their customer service staff.

Problem with turbos are that most drivers don't allow them to cool properly by allowing the engine to idle after fast driving or a motorway run. I guess that TDIs tend to be used by a lot of company car drivers who are in a rush and just switch off the engine as they are in a rush.

 

Honest John in the motoring telegraph says that the main problem is the extended service intervals loved by fleet managers. He recommends halving the service interval and having a basic oil and filter change to extend the life of engines and turbos.

This is true, the turbo needs to be allowed to cool a little at idle speeds, otherwise the oil in the turbo bearings carbonises.

More frequent ol/filter changes will generally give a longer-lasting engine, but won't affect turbo failures - turbochargers are sealed for life lubrication

This is true, the turbo needs to be allowed to cool a little at idle speeds, otherwise the oil in the turbo bearings carbonises.

For most people this advice is 'After The Event' and should be included in the owners handbook.

For most people this advice is 'After The Event' and should be included in the owners handbook.

I can't speak for the 3-series, but all three turbo cars that my family has owned (BMW 530d, Audi A4, Merc E320CDI) have all had this in the handbook.

Nope .... didly squat ....

This is true, the turbo needs to be allowed to cool a little at idle speeds, otherwise the oil in the turbo bearings carbonises.

 

More frequent ol/filter changes will generally give a longer-lasting engine, but won't affect turbo failures - turbochargers are sealed for life lubrication

Pat, turbochargers do use the engine oil, which is why the turbo failure in this instance caused the enigne to fail as it dumped all the enigne oil in the exhaust/intake systems. The oil is fed to the turbo and drains back into the sump, so if a turbo fails, the oil is still pumped into turbo, just doesn't return to the sump so the engine eventually runs dry and fails, unless your lucky and notice the problem early, as in another post.