We are fighting a case with the council for breaching the terms of the tenancy .

This tenancy is a secure tenancy from 1985.

They are presenting the court with conditions from 2014 trying to say they are true tenancy .

Can they do this or can I get the case thrown out as they are relying on this for their case .

I am in court tomorrow without any legal help only advice.

thanks in advance

We are fighting a case with the council for breaching the terms of the tenancy .This tenancy is a secure tenancy from 1985. They are presenting the court with conditions from 2014 trying to say they are true tenancy . Can they do this or can I get the case thrown out as they are relying on this for their case . I am in court tomorrow without any legal help only advice. thanks in advance

Hello there.

I've merged two duplicate threads that you've posted. If you can't see what you just posted up, try using the refresh button on your browser.

I'll flag your thread for the site team in case anyone can help, but it's very short notice. What time are you in court please?

In case the forum guys are able to get here, I think you need to supply us with more information in order to save time asking questions.

HB

Have you tried the Shelter website and helpline? They might be able to give you some pointers.

HB

Sorry wasn't sure if it was posted .I am court at 12 tomorrow I have prepared myself but I was hoping to get the copy of the tenancy terms and conditions but they are delaying giving them hence the post . Going to the offices tomorrow first thing. How can they rely on them if they weren't there in the original agreement .

Thanks Shelter were a great help to me but this something I didn't ask them

Hard to say without more information. What is the tenancy term that has been changed, and what are the changes?

Try and get to court early and see if there's a duty solicitor.

thanks for your reply but my question is can they rely on modern terms and conditions or have they to produce the original terms and condition

.My thoughts are that they are trying to prove you are in breach of tenancy rules so they should have to prove they existed at the time of the signing of the tenancy We dont know what has changed as we cant get a copy of them .It is to do with assigning the tenancy

Will be banging on the door.

A lot of Social housing landlords update their T&C's and have them posted on their site. If you had received them when issued, you would have had a covering letter asking you to confirm you want to continue being a tenant by paying the new rate for rent. Or, if you chose not to pay the higher rent you must give 4 weeks notice to leave and end your tenancy.

All landlords are required to provide a written copy of the T&C's to their tenants so they can make the informed decision to continue renting from them. It would help if you can explain a little more about the position you are in this will allow more advice for you. Late in the day as it is ...

Normally the change in T&C's is when the rent goes up or significant changes in the agreement

How did it go?

28 days to find a new solicitor It always sounds like you are doing nothing but this is a complex case and the solicitor wouldn't appear he thought it was a forgone conclusion . Remains to be seen. Duty solicitor was spot on . The council were so cock sure they said to me "were taking the house". Maybe they will in the end but not without a fight.

Assignment. The duty solicitor said the council wont allow this . Surely this is a legal right otherwise why would you have a condition that you have to wait for a year ?

It can be the case that you have a contract that is in two parts. The first is the signed Tenancy Agreement. This will refer to and seek to include the second part, a Tenancy Handbook. Normally the Tenancy Agreement is updated less frequently than a Tenancy Handbook. Though your Tenancy Agreement may have initially been signed in 1985, any new Tenancy Agreement you have signed will be an acceptance of those terms and indicate it is a continuing tenancy. Your Tenancy agreement whenever signed may bind you to accept any future tenancy rules. You need the agreement and a solicitor to confirm. However, you only become 'bound' by new Terms on Conditions on signing of any new agreement or proper notification and recepiet of any new Terms and Conditions. More broadly speaking, I believe I am correct in saying that Contract terms cannot, save for statute, be retrospectively applied. If you need any information on your tenancy agreement you can submit a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act. If you have asked the council for a copy of the tenancy Terms & Conditions and they have not supplied you with them. You could argue that you do not have "Equality of Arms" and ask the court to defer the case until the council complies. There are also statutory obligations that crop up from time to time that would form part of the T&C's. Either way getting a solicitor or legal advice is recommended.

It can be the case that you have a contract that is in two parts. The first is the signed Tenancy Agreement. This will refer to and seek to include the second part, a Tenancy Handbook. Normally the many Tenancy Agreement is updated less frequently than a Tenancy Handbook. Though your Tenancy Agreement may have initially been signed in 1985, any new Tenancy Agreement you have signed will be an acceptance of those terms and indicate it is a continuing tenancy. Your Tenancy agreement whenever signed may bind you to accept any future tenancy rules. You need the agreement and a solicitor to confirm. However, you only become 'bound' by new Terms on Conditions on signing of any new agreement or proper notification and recepiet of any new Terms and Conditions. More broadly speaking, I believe I am correct in saying that Contract terms cannot, save for statute, be retrospectively applied. If you need any information on your tenancy agreement you can submit a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act. If you have asked the council for a copy of the tenancy Terms & Conditions and they have not supplied you with them. You could argue that you do not have "Equality of Arms" and ask the court to defer the case until the council complies. There are also statutory obligations that crop up from time to time that would form part of the T&C's. Either way getting a solicitor or legal advice is recommended.

many thanks for the detail just what I need .We were hoping to get the tenancy passed down from my partners mother and were told we needed to wait one year after she moved in with her mother.We have complied with this but they are now blocking this saying the mum has moved out .At this time we are fighting just to keep the mother in possession.

Sounds like the Court have suspended the case for 28 days, for plaintiff to seek legal representation/advice?

Having read Shelter's online advice on topic, your partner would have succeeded to secure T if she had lived with mother for 12 months preceding mother's death.However mum is still alive, so should have nominated qualifying dau for T assignment. I guess no such nomination was made before mother vacated secure T. In Law there is no Stat provision for a qualifying person (unless spouse) to be assigned a secure T unless certain conditions are met, (unlike a Regulated Tenancy)

I fear your orig solic assessment was correct. As to mother regaining T, that depends on what she told HA.

You may find a Nick Freeman style solic to fight the case, but I suggest you seek alt accom asap

Sounds like the Court have suspended the case for 28 days, for plaintiff to seek legal representation/advice?

 

 

Having read Shelter's online advice on topic, your partner would have succeeded to secure T if she had lived with mother for 12 months preceding mother's death.However mum is still alive, so should have nominated qualifying dau for T assignment. I guess no such nomination was made before mother vacated secure T. In Law there is no Stat provision for a qualifying person (unless spouse) to be assigned a secure T unless certain conditions are met, (unlike a Regulated Tenancy)

I fear your orig solic assessment was correct. As to mother regaining T, that depends on what she told HA.

You may find a Nick Freeman style solic to fight the case, but I suggest you seek alt accom asap

Thanks her mother hasn't vacated just the council trying to make out she has to prevent the transfer . I fear we may lose but there are mental health issues so the judge asked them to sort it out of court but they refuse . There may be a compromise in there somewhere!

many thanks for the detail just what I need .We were hoping to get the tenancy passed down from my partners mother and were told we needed to wait one year after she moved in with her mother.We have complied with this but they are now blocking this saying the mum has moved out .At this time we are fighting just to keep the mother in possession.

This is making some sense now as to difficulty. Did you & your partner move in with your partners mother? Was this your only address or property?. These can all impact on the decision over inheritance. So if your partner & you had a permanent address elsewhere, then your partner moves in with their mother. The council may well have terms that would indicate that your partner has a permanent address with you and not their mother. This may fall foul of the rules. If none of this was declared when a claim for succession was being pursued this may bring the mother in breach of her terms of tenancy. However, your partners mother, if still in residence at the property, provided she has not breached her terms, would seem to have continuing rights of tenancy. As for mental health issues does your partners mother have someone who has power of attonery to act if required?

Just to also lend clarity. Passing on a tenancy passes obligations for housing on to the successor. It does not confer title or possession of any individual property.

This is making some sense now as to difficulty. Did you & your partner move in with your partners mother? Was this your only address or property?. These can all impact on the decision over inheritance. So if your partner & you had a permanent address elsewhere, then your partner moves in with their mother. The council may well have terms that would indicate that your partner has a permanent address with you and not their mother. This may fall foul of the rules. If none of this was declared when a claim for succession was being pursued this may bring the mother in breach of her terms of tenancy. However, your partners mother, if still in residence at the property, provided she has not breached her terms, would seem to have continuing rights of tenancy. As for mental health issues does your partners mother have someone who has power of attonery to act if required?

 

Just to also lend clarity. Passing on a tenancy passes obligations for housing on to the successor. It does not confer title or possession of any individual property.

yes my partner and my son moved in with her mother and register this with the council .

They explained that they were looking to transfer the tenancy and were told it would only be possible after a year.

My partner was brought up in this house and she moved out due to over crowding and then moved back with my son after her sister was killed in an accident. She has never lived with me . I may have said differently earlier but I was just trying to keep it simple.

It seems to hinge on terms and conditions so I am going to get her a to do a sar request as I think they have imposed unfair terms and conditions so it would be worth knowing what she has actually signed and agreed over the years as was suggested

At the moment we are struggling to stop the council taking the house first as has changed some thing over in readiness for her leaving after waiting now 16 months . They haven't given any indication of a problem up till she tried to sign it over and they knew all the details.

As for the title not sure what this means are you saying she wouldn't become the tenant?

Thanks for your help.