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    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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police caution shoplifting SCOTLAND **RESOLVED**


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Hi everyone, apologies if this has been asked before - i did search

 

i wonder if someone could offer some advice please?

 

Totally out of character I shoplifted some items from a shop and was ultimately caught.

 

I know it was incredibly stupid, I've never done anything like that before.

 

The police were called and they questioned me in the security office.

Im in my 30s and I have never been in trouble with the police before.

They cautioned me and escorted me off the premises.

 

[Edit: the police actually took my home as they said they needed to confirm who I was.

They said since the only ID had was a provisional licence and sometimes people move without updating licence.

The picture on the licence is 9 years old so i do look slightly different now - another reason to take me home.

 

I still live with my parent & officers came in to check I was who i said I was.

I lied to my dad saying i was a witness to car accident & police kindly dropped me of so they could confirm details.

 

Police had said they wouldnt mention the theft to my dad. How pathetic that at 30 I'm terrified my dad will find out :( ]

 

The police said they will send a report to the Procurator Fiscal who will decided how to proceed.

 

Can anyone offer advice on what I can expect to happen.

 

I know what I did was stupid & i feel awful about the who incident so please i don't need judgements just advice please.

 

i am sick with worry about this.

Thanks

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi and welcome to CAG

 

You know, I'm not sure how the Scottish Legal system works. I would imagine that the Procurator Fiscal is very similar to the CPS in England. It really does depend on the circumstances as to whether they proceed with a criminal action or not. A case of wait and see.

 

Hopefully the Scottish regulars will see this and offer some better advice. I will change the thread title to reflect that you are in Scotland

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Thanks silvefox, sorry I meant to add that it was Scotland. Thanks for updating it.

 

Any idea of how long i need to wait for outcome.

 

 

The police said he needs to submit his report to Procurator within 2 weeks.

 

 

How long can I expect to wait to hear from Procurator?

 

 

I know if will differ case to case just wondering about estimated times.

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Hello again sorry to ask another question.

 

I've been trying to find more info about this online

 

from what I've read seems to suggest that in order for me to be officially 'Cautioned' as in it is on my criminal record,

that I must sign a document stating that I agree to the Caution.

 

This didn't happen when I was questioned by police in the stores security office.

 

One officers checked my name on the Police computer and asked questions about why i did it, have i ever done this before.

 

His partner returned and ask a few more questions.

 

Before I was escorted out of building the 2nd officer said he was issuing a caution on the grounds of theft etc

and did I understand & did I have anything to say.

TBH I didn't take all of what he said in.

 

Does this mean that I have not been formally Cautioned yet?

 

And that I must await the Prosecutor Fiscal's decision?

 

Of course I know a caution is likely (Excuse my naivety I just don't fully understand the process)

 

Thanks again

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issued a caution

 

 

that's the end of it.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for the reply.

 

Just to make sure I understand you.

 

Do you mean that it IS a caution in the sense that it's on my record and should wait to hear the PF's decision.

 

Or that there will be no further action i.e.

 

I will get letter from Police/PF stating or confirming this.

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I would say that the PC gave you 'a verbal' caution there and then.

 

you wont here anything more.

 

9/10 unless the sums involved are high

from sort of personal experience, you get a verbal 'ticking off'

[simply 'a note' in his pocket book.]

 

that's the end of it.

 

I would doubt its recorded anywhere other than the on the police national computer system..

 

in case you do something silly again.

 

it does not [well in this persons situation] appear on any searches anywhere.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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dx100uk - thanks again for your input and for setting my mind at rest.

Somewhat at least.

Don't think I'll relax until I've receive notice of the outcome.

 

I really hope that it is what you advise.

Then I can put this whole sorry mess behind me.

 

In reply to dx100uk's post.

The sum involved was around £500.

(Some expensive cosmetics and perfume).

 

Its a high value so I think I should be anticipating more than just this 'verbal warning'.

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A Police caution will appear on an enhanced disclosure and may have to be notified to a prospective employer

in the same way as a criminal record is for a certain amount of time.

 

However, it is "spent" a lot sooner and if it is properly issued you should have been given a caution notice-piece of paper

saying what the caution was for, date etc.

 

If you were interviewed under caution this is different and means that what you say can be used as evidence if a prosecution is brought against you.

 

If the latter I'm sure that you will receive something through the post saying that your are required to attend another interview etc within a short time.

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Thanks for the reply.

The police didn't mention the word caution before asking me any questions in the store security office.

That's why I'm a little confused.

They only said it after they finished their questions and were were leaving.

I guess I'll just need to wait and see

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As the rules seem to be different in Scotland, I would expect that due to the value of goods taken that this officer will report this to the 'higher ups' who will make the decision however, I am surprised that you were not formally interviewed under caution at a police station. I would expect that to be the next step although I could be totally wrong (which has been known)

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Thanks for the reply.

Would that mean that they would come to my home an take me to the station or send letter asking me to attend?

I'm terrified with every car that goes by that it the police coming to my home to cart me off to the station.

 

I know I have to answer for what I did and deal with the legal aspect.

However, I would rather family/friends/neighbours find out about it

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it would be in a letter.

 

I'm a bit concerned upon the level of this [£500]

and that you've slipped in extra details in post one since people have replied too.

 

what were the goods and from where please

and were the good intact and the store? got them back.

 

now you have updated things

I'm not so sure you'll not hear further upon this.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I was in a panic last night and forgot to add all the info.

 

The store in question was Boots.

The items were some Chanel products and some other expensive skincare.

Yes the goods were recovered in intact.

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ouch

 

you might be lucky

but I doubt it.

 

how long has this been going on?

 

done it before?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Only happened yesterday.

 

This is the first time ive ever done anything like this before. Or had any dealing with police.

The officer didnt mention anything about having to go to station.

Just that he's sending report to procurator fiscal & he needs to do that within 2 weeks.

 

So I guess I will be expecting to be asked to go to station very soon

Would it be advisable to call the local police station & ask if i am likely to be called in?

I'm not certain that the officers came from there though.

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pers I'd sit on your hands

 

you never know. you might be lucky

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ok, i'll do as i suggest.

This not knowing is making me sick.

I know its what i deserve though.

 

Do you think the police will contact me to confirm the report has been sent to Procurator or will i just need to wait until the Procurator contacts me?

 

Sorry for all the questions, i really do appreciate all the replies.

Have been reading other posts & all posters are fully of great advice.

Kudos for the

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You will know when a letter arrives waht is going to happen but if you dont get a letter then you can take it that the decision is no further action.

 

 

Going to a police station and asking wont get you any further, it will be dealt with by a single officer

and unless you know who that is anyone else at the satation wont be able to tell you any sooner tahn the letter will.

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Thanks for the reply ericsbrother. I thought that might be the case

 

I spoke to a solicitor on the phone today. He said pretty much the same - just wait & see what correspondence i receive either from police or PF

Edited by peggysue122
pressed 'post' too soon
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Sorry for yet another question.

 

When i was detained in the shop's security office the store's security asked for ID & I gave him my provisional licence.

 

The security officer from the shopping centre also took a note of my details from licence.

(I know now after reading on here that i didnt have to give details to anyone other than police but I was in a state)

 

I presume that the store security took my details to pass onto the likes RLP.

But I wondered why the centre's security took details.

Was this to send a letter banning me from the centre?

He did say I was banned.

 

He took my picture and informed me I was banned from the centre,

that they had facial recognition cameras & the police would be called.

 

Would the really have facial recognition cameras?

 

I can't see that they they would have such technology to scan every face that enters the shopping area.

 

I have briefly spoken to solicitor on the phone but i wasn't able to ask him all the questions I had so I hope you guys here don't mind me asking here.

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I doubt were much they do have face rec.

its a common scare tactic.

 

pers I think you'll not here anything more 'official'

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I wish I could be as optimistic about not hearing anything back.

I'm expecting that I'll be cited to go to court.

 

The solicitor I spoke with didn't say either way but I'll expect the worst until I hear something back.

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Today I received at letter from RLP as expected.

They state that I owe their client £250.

The envelope has "Retail Loss Prevention" printed on the front, done by the franking machine I guess.

 

I'm not looking forward to trying to intercept the post for the next 8-12months to get the letters before anyone else in the house does.

 

I was reading this thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?439604-Shoplifted-from-Superdrug

And the OP emailed RLP instructing them only to contact him/her by email which RLP said they would comply with.

 

I was thinking of doing this myself but wondered if RLP would still comply as Im not a minor unlike the OP in the thread I linked.

 

I was also wondering if I instruct a company to only contact me be a certain method, must they abide by it?

Thanks

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nope

once Jackie knows she has a weapon over you she'll use it all the more.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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