Hello, this is my 1st post on here. I have looked for the answer but cant find one for my exact problem.

I have been off sick with stress for 5 weeks, and I have a sicknote which runs out end of October. I have been off since my manager told me in my quarterly review that I should leave or I would be "managed out". Since then I have been stressed and depressed. This was the final straw.

For he 1st 3 weeks I was told I had to ring in everyday. I did this as I felt my job was on the line, but this added to the problem, and I started to have problems sleeping. My doctor has since given me a low level anti depressant to help.

As soon as I handed in my 2nd sick note (after the 1st one lasting 3 weeks) They rang me to say that I needed to come in for a meeting as "Something had come up while I had been off"

As you can prob imagine, after them saying that, I think they are trying to get rid of me. I think that they must have found / made somehing to get me out.

I said that I didnt feel up to going in, and my doctor wouldnt have signed me off without reason. They then got occupational health to ring me. After a 10 min call, she said I was fit enough to attend the meeting, and that she would report this back to them.

They are now pushing to have this meeting asap, but wont tell me what its about! This is inturn causing more stess!!

Does anybody know if I have to attend, even though my sicknote says I am not allowed to go into work before the end of the month?

Also, can they hold a meeting without me being there??? I think they would try this, even though it doesnt seem fair.

Any help will be appriciated.

Hiya,

Welcome to CAG.

I am going to move your thread over to the employment forum, you will get the help you need in there.

Hello there

Yes, they can summon you to work, sick or not, but within reason.

For instance, should one be on the critical list in hospital then that would be unreasonable to be called into a meeting in work.

However, a builder with a broken arm maybe signed off work but that wouldn't really prevent him from attending a meeting in work.

I'd be careful especially as the OH feel you are able to attend.

They can ask you to go to a meeting whilst signed off if it is related to your sickness, but you can reasonably refuse provided a doctor backs you up. They can also ask to come to your home.

But occupational health cannot get involved unless you agree to it, occupational health assessments have to be consensual.

Hopefully someone will be along shortly who can offer more advice on this.

Hi

i was in a simular position to you. i was a nurse and hurt my back i also got called in to see my nurse manager i phoned my union rep and she said i had to go but MUST take someone with me ...it can either be a friend or if you are in the union your rep but she did stress not to go alone i do understand how you feel please take someone with you x

Thanks for you input guys,

I am also wary of my line manager carrying out the meeting (the one who told me to leave)

Is there anyway I can complain / stop him being their. It seems unfair that he will be there when he is the main problem!

I do not agree that an employee such as yourself who is off from work with work-related stress can be forced to attend any work related meeting.

Provided you have complied with your employer's absence notification procedures, which it appears you have, then you have discharged your responsibilities as an employee in this respect.

Whilst your employer could of course 'request' that you attend a meeting, you are not obliged to attend.

Although, if your absence continues long-term it could be advantageous to attend meetings if a medical capability procedure is invoked, if such a meeting were arranged the invite letter would explain this was the purpose of the meeting, and thus you would not be being asked to attend a meeting, the agenda of which is unclear.

Any disciplinary action taken as a result of a failure to attend a meeting when you are certified as sick would almost certainly be ruled unfair.

In relation to your line manager you should submit a written grievance about they way you have been treated by him, explain that this has exacerbated your illness, and request that the Company provide another manager for any meetings with you until your grievance has been investigated.

Thanks for this.

I have just sent the letter to complain about the way I have been treated, and will only make contact with them as outlined in the sickness policy.

Should I just say no to going in for a meeting????

Can they hold the meeting without me being there???

sorry to keep coming back with more questions

I agree with Elche. If you are signed off with work related stress and it seems the manager that is insisting you come to this 'meeting' is most of the problem then this is not a reasonable request especially as they won't tell you what it is about!

I would suggest either putting it in writing saying that all requests for meetings will have to be made in writing clearly stating what they are about and if applicable which procedure the meeting is being convened under or call your HR and relay it to them verbally if time is short. That way they will have to state whether it may lead to dismissal and state your right to be accompanied.

You are right to be suspicious, I've seen far too many cases where people have been asked to come in 'just for a chat' and when they have walked in, HR are sat there and they've walked out with their P45!!

Regards,

Paul.

Hi,

Just to agree with a few of the posts above, you can't be reasonable asked to attend whist signed off with stress.

As for the "chat", if you were invited in for a chat, it would have to be just that. If a disciplinary/capability hearing is to take place, you must be informed in advance (in writing) making you aware the nature of the grievence and giving you an opportunity to defend yourself.

If you were called in for a "chat" and dismissed, you would win any case for unfair dissmissal, assuming you've worked for your employer for more than 12 months.

How long have you employed with this employer?

This seems really good advice so thanks for this. Eveyones input is honestly appriciated.

I have worked there for 3+ years.

He has done this to other people before, but they have either moved on within the company (prob to save their careers) or left for another company.

I have a really good friend who works there with me, and the roumers are that I wont be back!!

I just hope that I can get this sorted.

Keep records of everything that happens and every action that they take.

To dismiss you they have to do the following things:-

- Issue a statement to you in writing outlining their concern with your performance/capability etc

- Invite you to a meeting to discuss this with you

- Give you the right to appeal

Also, there can't be any suggestion that they have made a decision prior to this meeting, as they have to hear your case.

If an employer does not follow the minimum procedure (the 3 steps above) then an employment tribunal may judge the dismissal 'automatically unfair'.

Best Wishes

Hello Again,

Just received a call from my line manager.

He has said that I have to come in next week as Occupational Health has said I am fit to do so - Even though my doctor has signed me off again for longer. I said I dont feel up to it but he said OH have said I am fit to, and therefore have to.

I have just been told that my line manager wont be in the meeting, another one will (his mate!) due to the letter to HR. They have only told me there is a "discrepency" with my work but wouldnt give any more information.

just a couple of things I need to know.

1) Do I legally have to attend as OH say I am ok to do so?

2) If I am can MY doctor provide a letter to say he doesnt think I am?

3) Can they hand me a letter as I go in next week to comply to the legal minimum for dissmissing me or do I have to receive this before? ( assume I wont be working there if iI atend ) - The 3 points are above.

4) Is there anything else I can do?

I am having panic attacks at the thought of even going back to the place at the minute.

Thanks for your help.

sorry forgot to add, they are bringing someone down from my head office for the meeting (assume this is HR), but they wont tell me who.

hummmmm not sure about this one ...all i know is when i had to go to oh i phoned to say i couldnt make it as i was having trouble walking (as i had injured my back at work) and they said i had to attend as the appointment was to see there dr as well as hr so not sure how you stand on this one:confused:

this happened to me last year when I had a very bad knee problem, the line manager keep phone me at home and told me that they did not received my medical certificate also I was then asked to attend a meeting, 'just for a chat' to help back to work.

After that call I wrote to them stating that I was on crutches and was unable to take public transport. I told them that I would attend if they paid for a taxi there and back and asked them to confirm this in writing.

I got are reply confirming that they would pay for a taxi and when I got my place of work, I was met by a totally different person than the one that phoned, I was met by a personnel person brought in for that interview. When they seen me on crutches it was only then that they believed me and my GP.

What I would like to know how can an OH say that you can attend an interview when he/she has not seen you for an interview on medial grounds. Has the OH been in contact with your GP without your consent.

If I were you I would get everything in writing just to take what they say on the phone as face value as theses people lie. Also if your firm refers you to OH, it is your right to see what they have put down on that form before it is sent off, when I got my hands on the form that a line manager sent to the OH it has a lot of inaccuracies about my employment status, ie it said that I was temporary staff instead of permanent also it had my age wrong as well of other minor accuracies.

Ask them for a copy of the OH report where it says that you are well enough to attend the meeting.

OH done a 15 min telephone call, they based it on that alone

That was how it was done with me. The OH said that some minor adjustment should be done but this was not adhere to by my firm. Asked them to send you a copy of the report and you can see what OH has said for yourself.

With me they did not put the correct information on the report, it is your right to see what the OH has said on the report and they should send it to you.

Did you see the request from before they sent it to the OH to check what they put on it, if you did and everything they put on it was correct then that was OK.

If you have not seen form then asked for a copy of it and a copy of OH reply after your interview by phone.

Tread very carefully.

A doctor's sick note is simply an opinion and the certificate itself is no more than an entitlement to statutory benefits.

The certificate from your doctor will state 'I advise you...' it does not say you are unfit.

If your employer's OH is a qualified physician, rather than just a nurse, then, in his opinion, you should attend the meeting, which he has already done.

An ET could well consider the OH opinion as better than your own doctor.

A sick note is quite a myth where people think it is an absolute and cannot be questioned.

On a sick note it says that on examination by the GP, surely that must count for something. After all a GP is suppose to be medical qualified.

How can you tell if the OH is a nurse or a GP. I have looked at the report that I got from my employer after months of requesting and I cannot tell if the OH is a qualified physician or a nurse.

On a sick note it says that on examination by the GP, surely that must count for something. After all a GP is suppose to be medical qualified.

 

Of course it does count-it counts as his/her opinion. Which can be overruled (or for want of a better description, an ET would probably listen more to a stress specialist than a GP) by OH if that OH advisor happens to be a specialist with stress related conditions.

 

How can you tell if the OH is a nurse or a GP. I don't-and neither does the OP which is all the more reason to be careful. I have looked at the report that I got from my employer after months of requesting and I cannot tell if the OH is a qualified physician or a nurse.

Proves my point.

 

 

...

ok guys, it seems like I have to attend this meeting then, which leaves me in 2 minds. I am 99% sure that they will sack me over something they have "created".

They have said I will be given some "information" to read before I go in the meeting. Does his meet the statutory requirement of dismissal to "Send a letter". This is important as it will help me decide which of the following is best to do.

1) Resign with immediate effect - I think a dismissal would be very bad for me getting another job.

2) Go to the meeting and hope for the best, i.e. they mess up with the letter and I can claim unfair dismissal.

Thanks

 

They have said I will be given some "information" to read before I go in the meeting. Does his meet the statutory requirement of dismissal to "Send a letter".

A moot point. In my opinion a step one letter should provide you with enough information to enable you to prepare a defence although it seems clear that a ET will look at all the facts surrounding the case :

The step 1 requirement of a statement of grounds for action does not mean all the detailed evidence that may be relied on but, rather, a sufficiently detailed statement of the case against the employee to enable him properly to put his side of the story: Alexander v Brigden Enterprises Ltd [2006] ICR 1277 (para 39). In Draper v Mears Ltd [2006] IRLR 869 (HHJ Burke QC presiding) the EAT said that a tribunal which regards the words of the step 1 letter as ambiguous or which is doubtful as to whether the words of that letter are sufficient to amount to compliance is entitled to look at the whole context (including whether the employee already knew what the allegations against him were) in order to resolve any such ambiguity or any such doubt. However, it is legitimate for a tribunal, in considering whether a document complies with step 1, to take into account whether the document would have been seen by the employee to have been ambiguous or to have left him in any doubt. See also Homeservice Emergency Services Limited v Dixon [2007] UKEAT/0127 (HHJ Clark presiding).

Thus hard to give a 'yes or no' answer!

Can you seek any good quality advice eg CAB, Law Centre in advance of the meeting?

ok thanks for this.

I work for a very large multi naional company so think they would probably have everything covered then from that side.

Does anyone have a good template to use so that I can resign straight away???

And just one more quetion (they just keep coming). I have been told that a reference can now only show the date of start and end of employment, Is this the case, or will it show "resigned pending disaplinary"??

Thanks for all your help (everyone) wih this.

If you want to resign right away then I would suggest this...if I were you I would look at your contract as you may need to give a period of notices.

Dear Sir/Madam

I wish to tender my resignation taking effect immediately.

Yours etc.

If you are resigning due to illness and they firm is completely unreasonable then I would consider putting something in about that as well. Not sure what but I am sure someone will be available to help you with this soon.

Not sure about reference, but you can S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them to see what they have on you after you have resigned. You should be aware that if you resign and you have not another job to go to then you may loose benefit.