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    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
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Claim now denied, having already partially paid out!


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Am in quite a dilemma here, any advice/thoughts much appreciated!

 

Ok, we moved into our house at the end of August, 2007. We took out buildings/contents inc accidental cover with Northern Rock.

 

At the end of September, we came home from a weekend away to find our kitchen floor squelched when walked on - on investigation, we discovered a leak coming from pipework underneath the sink. We immediately reported this to them, they said to get a plumber out which we did the following morning. The plumber duly fixed the leak there and then.

 

We rang the insurers, told them the full extent of the damage, including water underneath the laminate flooring, also water damage to the bottom of kitchen units where water had penetrated - they said no problem, they would instruct their repair contractors to assess the repairs.

 

They arrived a few days later, made their report, took photos etc and say they'll be in touch. A week or so later, another firm arrived, more specialist as the floor and units would now have to be lifted, and dehumidifiers installed to completely dry out the floor. He only carried 1 fan and 1 dehumidifier so he left those and said they would be back in several days or so to begin.

 

Some days later, we then receive a voucher from Northern Rock to cover the cost of replacement flooring. So far so good, at least the claim's been accepted........

 

But then, a few weeks pass and we're on the phone to Northern Rock asking them why the firm haven't returned with the equipment and started work on the floor/units, nor even called us. They tell us several times that they will get them to call us. Eventually when they do, the contractors tell us that due to them only being able to work within a small budget, they'd referred back to Northern Rock. They in turn tell us that they have now instructed a firm of loss adjusters to come round to visit us! (At this stage? After 2 reports done already over 3/4 weeks supporting the claim? After they've already partially paid out?)

 

A week later he arrives. First thing he asks is, do we have a copy of the home survey we'd had done. (I asked why he hadn't been given 1, particularly as our mortgage is also with the Rock and they'd said they would get a copy anyway the very first time we lodged the claim!). Anyway, he sits reading it and then virtually pronounces that - because the report mentions that an area of the kitchen around the sink seems to have suffered from water/damp damage, and that a part of the laminate flooring was damaged and would have to be replaced - our claim was likely to be refused!!! I turned to him and said, are you sure about that? Are you even aware that they have already paid out for the flooring? Well I think he was gobsmacked and he got all flustered, no he was not aware of that!! Anyway, he left after saying the insurers would be in touch.

 

Some 5 weeks after his visit, we have just had a letter from them to say that our claim has been rejected, for the reasons given above!

 

Ok, some advice from people would be good - as far as we're concerned, Northern Rock are just out to save themselves a few pennies! It seems that they were more than happy to initially accept the claim and pay out for the flooring, but when they realised a lot more cost was involved - in lifting the floor, getting equipment in to dry it, taking out the bottom kitchen units, replacing them (they're bespoke units too) - they tried to find a way out.

 

Firstly, as far as we're concerned, it's reprehensible that after receiving 2 reports and the work having begun and the flooring cost long paid for, that only then do they decide on sending out a loss adjuster - how can they do that? Surely he should have been the first person they sent round!

 

Secondly, can they backtrack anyway like that? Yes, sure, if they discover fraud or something like that, but that's not the case. We have been upfront with them from the outset. They would, or should, have seen sight of our survey right at the beginning - they confirmed that in their very first phone call - 10 weeks ago!

 

Thirdly, we would in any event argue that this was not a pre-existing condition at all - the report did not say that this was an ongoing problem. It did not mention any current leaks, and indeed, if the floor had squelched when he was walking on it, I'm quite sure he would have stated so in the report quite emphatically! (If it had squelched when we came to view it, we would not have bought it without querying it!

 

So...they've not asked for the voucher back, and we still have a fan and dehumidifier left here lol. Any suggestions where we go from here gratefully received.

Settled Claims:

Abbey: £4025 Claimed 27/02/06 - Paid in full 19/06/06

NatWest: £4529 Claimed 10/05/06 - Paid in full 1/08/06

Halifax: £1150 lba 18/05/06 - Paid in full 07/06/06

Natwest CC: £420 Initial letter 25/07/06 - Paid in full 08/06

Woolwich: £1100 Paid in full 28/2/07 + Default removed

NatWest Pt 2: £1700 Claimed 10/05/06 - Paid in full 7/2/07 + Defaults removed

 

Current Claims:

Abbey Pt 2: £2300 + adverse credit removal claimed 23/03/07

Alliance & Leicester: £1421 + adverse credit removal claimed 23/03/07

 

Refunds pending:

Capital Bank: Swift Advances: Halifax

 

Son's Refunds pending:

Abbey: HSBC

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  • 1 month later...

House insurance normaly has a get out clause of "they will not pay out for problems caused by bad maintenance" and I guess they will say as the problem was already known about it should have been fixed before it got worse.

 

If I was you I'd just put it down to bad luck and DIY the floor and cupboard bottoms. (get an expert to sort out the plumbling though)

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Definitely sang33ta- I believe the claim would be repudiated on the grounds of 'failiure to maintain', which is a clause in every home/car policy.

 

They are able to backtrack as they are constantly gathering information, and the claim/policy docs are likely to state that should any information arise that means they would not have dealt, they may repudiate the claim.

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  • 2 years later...

3/3/2010 - thought I would update this thread as things have finally progressed more than a year later, two years after our claim was rejected!

 

We first complained to the FOS in March, 2009. It took them over a year before they made their first ruling, which basically rejected our complaint. After this, we contacted the original surveyor of our Homebuyers Report who backed us up and essentially accused Axa of misinterpreting his report. Great you would think, surely now after his evidence the adjudicator would review her decision and uphold our complaint. Nope....she again rejected it, as did her manager when we forcefully fought for the decision to be overturned.

 

In September 2009 we made a complaint to the Independent Assessor over bias and delays, he rejects our claim of bias but agrees FOS should pay us £200 for inexcusable delays.

 

In October 2009 we finally prepared and forwarded our final submission to an Ombudsman.

 

In November 2009, as part of a pre-review before Ombudsman, another adjudicator reviewed the file and....upheld our complaint!! He wrote to Axa to ask if they would agree to pay our claim, unsurprisingly they refused point blank and progressed the appeal to an Ombudsman.

 

Yesterday, he FINALLY upheld our complaint too and have ordered Axa to pay our claim - over 2 years since they should have done.

 

Well, the moral to the tale is, don't give up! Frankly the quality of some of the adjudicators decisions is abysmal. I never doubted that once it got to Ombudsman, justice would prevail.

 

Only thing we're peed off with is that for 2 years delay, forced for that time to live in a near squalid kitchen with barely any flooring or base cupboards, he deems the grand sum of £150 to be adequate compensation!!

Settled Claims:

Abbey: £4025 Claimed 27/02/06 - Paid in full 19/06/06

NatWest: £4529 Claimed 10/05/06 - Paid in full 1/08/06

Halifax: £1150 lba 18/05/06 - Paid in full 07/06/06

Natwest CC: £420 Initial letter 25/07/06 - Paid in full 08/06

Woolwich: £1100 Paid in full 28/2/07 + Default removed

NatWest Pt 2: £1700 Claimed 10/05/06 - Paid in full 7/2/07 + Defaults removed

 

Current Claims:

Abbey Pt 2: £2300 + adverse credit removal claimed 23/03/07

Alliance & Leicester: £1421 + adverse credit removal claimed 23/03/07

 

Refunds pending:

Capital Bank: Swift Advances: Halifax

 

Son's Refunds pending:

Abbey: HSBC

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  • 1 month later...

Not sure if anyone can advise, now that our insurer has been told by the FOS to accept and process our claim, which is for a new kitchen, kitchen flooring and decoration (and associated labour), can we insist on a cash payment so we can arrange the work with suppliers and fitters of our own choosing?

Settled Claims:

Abbey: £4025 Claimed 27/02/06 - Paid in full 19/06/06

NatWest: £4529 Claimed 10/05/06 - Paid in full 1/08/06

Halifax: £1150 lba 18/05/06 - Paid in full 07/06/06

Natwest CC: £420 Initial letter 25/07/06 - Paid in full 08/06

Woolwich: £1100 Paid in full 28/2/07 + Default removed

NatWest Pt 2: £1700 Claimed 10/05/06 - Paid in full 7/2/07 + Defaults removed

 

Current Claims:

Abbey Pt 2: £2300 + adverse credit removal claimed 23/03/07

Alliance & Leicester: £1421 + adverse credit removal claimed 23/03/07

 

Refunds pending:

Capital Bank: Swift Advances: Halifax

 

Son's Refunds pending:

Abbey: HSBC

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