Template Proposal.

[renegotiation]

I propose these additions to the ever popular CCA Letter N template. Underneath the letter content it may be best to state that:

 

1. A copy of the letter you send should be retained.

 

2. The letter shouldn't be signed, as with any correspondence to Debt Collection Agencies.

 

3. The letter is best sent by recorded delivery or even special delivery if it is affordable. The delivery receipt should be kept with the copy of the letter. Delivery confirmation is available using the 'Track and Trace' feature on the Royal Mail website home page at www.royalmail.com . It is best to print this off when it becomes available and also keep it with the copy of the letter.

 

4. The £1 fee is best paid with a crossed postal order. The postal order receipt should also be kept with the copy of the letter.

 

5. Once the letter is signed for the debt is in dispute. If 12 full working days pass from the day after the letter is signed for and you still have not received anything the debt then becomes unenforcable. You are legally entitled to stop payments if you haven't already done so. They are not allowed to actively pursue you for the alleged debt. If you have not received anything after a 'further' calendar month they will have committed a summary criminal offence and 'could' be reported to Trading Standards, the Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Ombudsman. (Is it both the OFT and FOS I forget?) It is usually advisable to wait until they actively continue to pursue the debt before initiating a complaint though, unless you feel strongly about the issue.

 

 

I think all this makes it a lot easier for people just to say send that letter. Sometimes none of the above advice is given, sometimes bits of it and admittedly sometimes all of it, but this advice should really be given all of the time. I'm sure i've been guilty of this. Also, wouldn't it be best to automatically start the letter with 'I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT'?

 

Comments please.

[djdave]

I'm surprised that the template doesn't already include "I do not acknowledge any debt" and it would definately be a worthy addition. To be honest, a seperate "sticky" about the whole process could be useful.

 

Or.... instead of having it on the forum, why not on the Wiki? That way it could easily be updated or amended as necessary.

[djdave]

In fact, leave that with me...

[renegotiation]

I think there may be some other general info somewhere about the site, but just thought that people with little time would benefit from those key points pasted in right underneath the letter.

[djdave]

I've started this page on the Wiki - feel free to add to it, it's very much a work-in-progress. I'd suggest that it become the "catch-all" page to refer people to with regard to CCA requests.

[oneofakind]

I definitely think we could do with a 'catch-all' page as djd suggests. I think there are a lot of people using the templates, and not really understanding what they're doing. How often do we see questions like 'what's a CCA request', 'where is the CCA template' or 'how long do (insert DCA name) have to respond' etc.

 

I know we all have to start somewhere, so to my mind, a simplified 'starter page' would be a good idea.

 

[djdave]

Well I've done all I can for today with the Wiki page, but it's there for anybody to edit. There are far more knowledgable people here than me, so if you've got a spare few minutes to edit or add to what I've done, then we can start referring people to the one page.

 

[renegotiation]

So how does one know if they're editing someone more learned? :oops: I could be editing good stuff with pants lol. Wouldn't it be better for people to submit ideas to a nominated editor?

[djdave]

If you like, I'll take responsibilty for updating the page based on suggestions on this thread. I won't get a chance today, but I'm back on tomorrow.

 

But please - don't feel afraid to edit the page yourself

[oneofakind]

So how does one know if they're editing someone more learned? :oops: I could be editing good stuff with pants lol. Wouldn't it be better for people to submit ideas to a nominated editor?

 

Always the trouble with Wikis.

I suppose, "If in doubt, do nowt!"

 

[renegotiation]

I still think points 1 to 4 could possibly go straight under the letter, as they are nothing to do with the Consumer Credit Act. It is just advice directly linked to the actual process of sending the letter. Pretty mundane, but important nonetheless.

[sequenci]

I'm surprised that the template doesn't already include "I do not acknowledge any debt" and it would definately be a worthy addition.

 

I disagree

 

Some people may acknowledge their debts and wish just to check the terms of their agreements. It's not about condoning debt avoidance imo.

[renegotiation]

Point taken. But having that it in doesn't stop people checking their agreements and continuing to pay. Whereas on the flipside, it would stop people who can't pay continuing to run the statute barred clock if they forgot to insert it. It would reset the 6 year clock wouldn't it? Or is it debatable? Basically it is something that can do no harm if included and could do harm if excluded. That's how I see it anyway.

[sequenci]

Whereas on the flipside, it would stop people who can't pay continuing to run the statute barred clock if they forgot to insert it.

 

excellent point.

 

maybe have a sentence at the start outlining possible variations of the standard latter.

 

i would also add that the letter should request a FULL statement of account and a copy of any documents refered to within the agreement.

[renegotiation]

excellent point.

 

maybe have a sentence at the start outlining possible variations of the standard latter.

 

i would also add that the letter should request a FULL statement of account and a copy of any documents refered to within the agreement.

 

And excellent points too. :) Maybe 'I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT (delete if this isn't the case)'

[rory32]

. If after 12 full working days from when the letter is signed for you have not received anything the debt enters into dispute.

The debt can be disputed from day one. The 12 working days are full days so start the day after receipt.

 

If you have not received anything after a 'further' calendar month they will have committed a summary criminal offence and should be reported to Trading Standards, the Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Ombudsman.

While technically correct I do not think this is great advice. It is far better to wait until they try and pursue the debt after the calendar month before reporting them. You have 6 months from the date of the offence to report them.

[renegotiation]

Good stuff. So the 12 days is about stopping payments if you haven't already done so?

[rory32]

So the 12 days is about stopping payments if you haven't already done so?

Basically yes. By putting I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE... you are disputing the debt.

The following may help:

OFT response to failing to provide agreement:

 

 

For your information, the general effects of sections 77-79 requires the creditor/owner

(in the case of a hire agreement) under an agreement for (fixed-sum credit, running

account credit and hire agreement) to provide the debtor/hirer with a copy of the executed

agreement and a statement of account on request.

 

If a creditor/owner fails to comply with a valid request within a period of 12 days

(not including the date of receipt of the request) he may not enforce the agreement at all.

This prevents enforcement with or without a court order. If a default lasts for a month

(for example a calendar month) it constitutes an offence. We understand your concerns in

this matter but please do remember however that once the creditor/owner complies with

the request albeit out of time, he may once again enforce the agreement.

 

A ‘true copy’ of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement

and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor do

not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total sum paid under the

agreement by the debtor; the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but

remains unpaid; and the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor

(the latter two must include the various amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when

each is/was due). However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points,

but it cannot be a conjectured reconstruction. If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have

difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody

would know what was in the original. When the trader comes to enforce the debt in court, he needs

to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently he cannot

otherwise.

 

In the absence of a copy of the original agreement someone's liability for a debt can only lead to

further query. However in circumstances like this we would view it is as unfair practice under

section 25(2) (d) of the Act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and/or

provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried or disputed.

[renegotiation]

'Enforcement without a court order' means what? Ringing and writing to the debtor?

[rory32]

Essentially yes. That is why it is better to wait until they try and demand payment before reporting them.

[renegotiation]

I suppose the 12 'working' days is clarified elsewhere. It just states 12 days there.

[rory32]

The Consumer Credit Regulations covers this e.g. The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

[renegotiation]

Rory.

Do you think point 5 looks ok now then (edited) whether it goes in or not?

Do you think points 1 to 4 or something like them should be pasted under the letter?

[NitrousOxide]

I think their should be a warning as well.

People should not use the letter to evade debts, and the consequences of adverse credit history still being recorded even if they can't find the CCA and squash the debt.

[djdave]

i would also add that the letter should request a FULL statement of account and a copy of any documents refered to within the agreement.

Agreed, now added.

 

And excellent points too. :) Maybe 'I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT (delete if this isn't the case)'

Template edited to include this.

 

While technically correct I do not think this is great advice. It is far better to wait until they try and pursue the debt after the calendar month before reporting them. You have 6 months from the date of the offence to report them.

Included advice to this effect.

 

Essentially yes. That is why it is better to wait until they try and demand payment before reporting them.

Now included.

 

I think their should be a warning as well.

People should not use the letter to evade debts, and the consequences of adverse credit history still being recorded even if they can't find the CCA and squash the debt.

Agreed, included in introduction and "when to send" sections.

 

I still think points 1 to 4 could possibly go straight under the letter, as they are nothing to do with the Consumer Credit Act. It is just advice directly linked to the actual process of sending the letter. Pretty mundane, but important nonetheless.

I've added a "recommendations" section under the template with the points not already covered in other sections.

 

 

Thanks to the advice and recommendations from people on this thread, the Wiki page is turning into a very useful resource.