CAG CRA S.A.R Club

[sosumi]

Okay for me this seems the big one, The Fraud Bill, directly from CallCredit's Corporate Compliance pages, here:

Personal - Credit Score - ing - Consumer Services

This is what Dougal16T (here) has been writing about here on several threads. I'll try and link up properly later.

Bearing in mind that CallCredit's description is aimed at a Corporate audience, and is therefore using individuals as examples. I really think we need to turn these examples round, and look at the way in which DCAs conduct their 'business'.

 

CallCredit are very reasonably explaining the Laws on these web pages. For that, they should be commended. But I find it ironic all the same.

DCAs thrive on fraud and extortion. They make a living out of deception. Should they be allowed any kind of access to our data? NO!

Edited June 8, 2008 by sosumi
added Dougal's link re. Fraud :)

[Allwood]

Of course not but the are doing it with impunity - and who is going to stop them?? I think we all have to write to MP's and the Information Commissioners Office asking them why they are allowed to keep doing this to the public and also why the needed for so many CRA's in one small country.

 

On reading the Equifax explanatory bump leaflet with my and under the heading of Notice of Disputes it say:

 

If you have a financial entry on you report that you believed to be incorrect, the above facility allows you to submit a query to Equifax, who will then contact the lender on your behalf. Please note that we cannot make an amendment to your information without mane an amendment to this information without their consent and the lender has a legal obligation to respond to us within 28 days of the dispute being raised. We would also advise ha you supply copies of any supporting documentation that will assist the lender with the dispute investigation.

Many searches are carried out for purposes other than a credit application and are not visible to other lenders searches for credit purposes. These include: Credit Quotation, Addition addresses, ID Check, Personal Vetting, Trace and Associate (searches visible to you when you when your financial associate applies for credit). As these do not affect your credit rating, Equifax do not raise a Notice of Dispute with the lender.

 

Although the person that I spoken to said that she would raise it with the two organisation that put a trace on my file. What a contradiction of the bump that they send out to consumers.

[sosumi]

It all goes back to the first post here, about that 'full access to SCOR'.

You mentioned 1000 posts Allwood. It costs less that £1000 to become a Debt Collector, they don't need qualifications, and they should have enough left to buy membership of a certain association and possibly a few credit checks on their victims as well. Easy money, eh?

If the CRAs want to present themselves as legitimate 'data-keepers', then they should be as committed to broadcasting their other interests as they are about getting the consumer to sign up for their 'service'.

Creditors - ie. banks and genuine financial institutions - should dissociate themselves from DCAs as quickly as they can - they remain responsible for their actions after all.

CRAs should dissociate themselves from DCAs just as rapidly. They need to clear their files of the erroneous and misleading information placed there by DCAs who had no authority to do so.

And CRAs should also make a decision on what they are and what they do right now. Do they gather information on people to sell to companies? Or do they provide a service that should have legitimate grounding?

Because I don't see any legitimacy in what they do re. DCAs. And DCAs are using them as tools in their squalid little armory.

[steven4064]

This is a test post

[Sparkie1723]

Hi Allwood,

I am with you 100% in what you say ...take this quote from Equifax for instance..

 

" Many searches are carried out for purposes other than a credit application and are not visible to other lenders searches for credit purposes. These include: Credit Quotation, Addition addresses, ID Check, Personal Vetting, Trace and Associate (searches visible to you when you when your financial associate applies for credit). As these do not affect your credit rating, Equifax do not raise a Notice of Dispute with the lender".

 

This is irrelevant..These people have searched your file and although it says it doesn't affect your credit rating it means they have obtained every single bit of personal data the CRA holds and have got it all without your consent or knowledge....that in my opinion is ..THEFT of your personal info and against your Human Rights.

 

In my case against RBS they got the Nat West to actually copy my credit file onto paper and pass it over to the RBS....I have never had any dealings with the Nat West in my life nor any of its subsiduaries.. but they still copied my file and then in my SAR Nat West said they held no info on me whatsoever....and yet it was they who copied my file ....The Data Protecton Act the ICO the CRA's are useless in protecting your personal data ...anyone can get it and no-one gives a SXXT

sparkie

[car2403]

There must be a time limit when they registered a default, it would be grossly unfair if a lender left say 5 years after the default or does the Information Commissioners Office consider this to be fair practice. Also is the 'industry standard' written down somewhere or is it made up as they go along.

 

Just look a attachments that came with my which I applied for after I got my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) I cannot find anywhere in that explanatory notes referring to traces place on credit file by DCA's.

 

Just noted that was the 1000 question on this thread

 

If the default amount is still outstanding, it can be registered as a Default on your credit file at any time. If they have flexibility in registering the Default, such as only doing it when you are at least 6 months in arrears of full payments, they have flexibility in not registering it in those cases as well. It's used as a collection tool, rather than an accurate record of how you've conducted your account. Until the Courts, the I.C.O, the OFT, Trading Standards and - vicariously - this Government, stop this "lottery", we'll always see injustice and be unable to pursue them.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Folks!

 

Just to add what Sparkie1723 has said, I know for certain that one bunch of bankers (MBNA) had a poke around in my Debt File, and used what they found in there to play mind tricks during their Telephone Harassment.

 

Specifically, they worked out who we had a Mortgage with from the CRA, realised that they also handled Credit Cards for that Lender, so elected to use our Mortgage Lender's Telephone Number when Calling us to Harass us about their own MBNA Card.

 

Intention clearly being to spook me into picking up the Call, thinking it was a really serious Call, and not just one from an MBNA Monkey.

 

I spotted the new Number straight away, ran a check to see what it was (used whocallsme .com) and saw it was a number linked to our Mortgage Lender.

 

Gave them some stick thinking they were starting to Harass us as well, and they checked it out for me. Knowing it was one of their own Numbers, they called the number to check, and found themselves talking to MBNA about my Credit Card! I gather some words were said, and that Number never called us again.

 

I have that in Writing, and will be ramming that down MBNA's gullet at some stage, along with a Harassment Claim for the 300+ Calls Logged to date. I kid you not.

 

But there's no trace at the CRA to show this, it was clearly just some MBNA lowlife poking about with no footprint at all, because they clearly allow any moron there to have almost unrestricted access to the CRA Data.

 

Does anyone feel comfortable knowing this?

 

I think the CRAs have demonstrated they are unfit to hold such Information and for once, I find myself saying this should all be Nationalised and Regulated. Give it to the Information Commissioners Office to handle, as they seem to be B-all use for anything else!

 

Furious vent over, you can have your Thread back now!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Goldlady]

How did MBNA manage that one? I was horrified enough when they rang my neighbours:mad: They only tried that trick once - my OH went crazy with them.

[Sparkie1723]

Just a quick one every body...remember if you put in a claim for Harassment you must do it at the latest 3 yrs from the last time you were harassed, just a note.

Especially for "banker rhymes with"

 

sparkie

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Goldlady!

 

How did MBNA manage that one? I was horrified enough when they rang my neighbours:evil: They only tried that trick once - my OH went crazy with them.

 

Not too hard for them, as they already handle the Credit Cards for the Mortgage Lender concerned, so it was only going to work for that Lender.

 

Someone at MBNA was obviously looking at ways to Harass, and whilst peering at my Debt Files at the CRA, spotted what they felt was a handy piece of information they could exploit.

 

Same thinking that makes them think that accessing the Land Registry Data can help their mind games, by sending a Print Off showing people's Title Deeds. Got one of them too, but it was expected and was just filed under Harassment with a note about "OFT Guidelines" being ignored...again!

 

Hello Sparkie1723!

 

Just a quick one every body...remember if you put in a claim for Harassment you must do it at the latest 3 yrs from the last time you were harassed, just a note. Especially for "banker rhymes with"

 

Many thanks, well worth knowing.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[car2403]

I used to work with a Finance Company that used CCN to credit check their customers - they regularly used such a check on bad debt to establish the basis for going for a charging order, via a CCJ, and to find out/verify affordability for a rewrite to get the debt off the bad debt sheets.

 

Part of the check was a screen to select the reason for the search - this is what appears on your credit file when you get it, such as "credit card - £x application", etc. What they don't tell you is that it's entirely possible for a lender, with this access, to perform an "unrecorded search". These searches are designed to be withheld from other creditors and should only be visible to you, when you request a copy of your credit file. I hasten to add that I don't believe all "unrecorded searches" are recorded, even in this way.

 

The lender I worked for used this process to screen applications prior to spending time checking for employment and affordability of loans on application - sometimes even without the consent of the applicant. (Where the broker for the loan didn't include the consent term on the form) They also used this to check for loans held with other branches, as the systems weren't linked up and didn't flag this information.

 

What did happen is that branch managers insisted on "recorded searches" being performed again (even if there was no new information to be found on the record) if the business was to be underwritten.

 

My point is that the system we all know and love regarding how CRA's function is only partially "known" - there are lots of insider tricks that are used to further the CRA's interests, some of which will never come to light, because of the potential impact on society of realising that information.

 

Who said that Big Brother was exposed by Orwell?

[Sparkie1723]

Hi car2403,

 

Your points are extremely relevant about CM "unrecorded searches" that is exactly what the Nat West used when they copied my credit file.

It DID NOT show up on my file, the only way I found out was the search had left a "footprint" on my partners file.

IF I had been single or divorced without a partner, I would NEVER have found out all that I did, I believe these "unknown" searches are carried out every day.

If you read posts 479 & 480 on my thread "Big Claim against RBS" you will see the evidence of my copied credit file and who searched and copied it ...The Bxxxxy Nat West

 

sparkie

Edited June 8, 2008 by Sparkie1723

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Chris/Sparkie1723!

 

My point is that the system we all know and love regarding how CRA's function is only partially "known" - there are lots of insider tricks that are used to further the CRA's interests, some of which will never come to light, because of the potential impact on society of realising that information.

 

Yes, much as I think many are starting to realise, but have yet to prove.

 

Mobile Phone Records are also being checked this way as well, as I never gave these people my Mobile Number, as I never give anyone apart from my Family my Mobile Number.

 

Guess who now sends me silly Harassment Texts and fills my Mobile's Voice Mail with more Harassment Messages!

 

And, no, I was never silly enough to Call any banker from my Mobile, so they never acquired the Number that way via CLI Capture.

 

I say scrap the CRAs, and hand this Role to a Government Agency...or just scrap it completely.

 

I think even the bankers would find they didn't really need it as much as they think. Hell, they might have to make real decisions for a change, and revert to responsible lending via proper dialogue with their Customers.

 

Years ago, whenever I went to see my Bank Manager for a Loan or large short term Business/Private Overdraft increase, I used to go and see him. We chatted, looked at Spreadsheets and Business Plans, or just discussed what it was for, and he made a decision there and then.

 

I don't ever remember him telling me to look away while he had a ferret through my Debt Reference Files before he could make a decision!

 

Every penny was paid back, I prospered.

 

Now I can't get an Overdraft big enough to buy a Mars Bar because my family and/or my business no longer fits some complex banking profile calculated in some banking office 300 Miles away.

 

Only way to get finance over the last 5-8 Years has been from banks with Cowboy Hats...with nasty strings attached that are only now starting to become clear.

 

Every core penny has been paid back, but not the hidden extras from things like PPI and Ramped Interest Rates. I'm not prospering, funnily enough.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited June 8, 2008 by banker_rhymes_with
Can't Spell and still can't Type!

[Sparkie1723]

Hi BRW,

 

There is no such thing as a Bank Manager these days he is just a "puppet clerk" with his strings pulled from as you said 300 miles away by a computer operator.

sparkie

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Sparkie1723!

 

There is no such thing as a Bank Manager these days he is just a "puppet clerk" with his strings pulled from as you said 300 miles away by a computer operator.

 

Absolutely.

 

I think UK plc is all the worse for it as well.

 

The next Recession will be longer and deeper partly because of this fundamental grass roots "missing link" in local business.

 

The basics needed for small acorns to grow have been missing now for maybe a decade.

 

But the bankers know what they are doing, they have complex mathematical models to rely upon. :o

 

Cheers,

BRW

[sosumi]

MPs say UK risks drift to surveillance society

From here.

Quote:

The government must guard against the drift into a "surveillance society", only keeping data on individuals as long as is absolutely necessary, a parliamentary committee said on Sunday. The Home Affairs Committee called on the government to adopt a principle of what it called "data minimisation", collecting only essential information and keeping it under a tight curb.

"What we are calling for is an overall principle of 'least data, for least time'," said committee chairman Keith Vaz.

[car2403]

I can't ever see the CRA's being disbanded, or a Government Agency being set up to do their work - these organisations are huge and Worldwide, so regulation is extremely difficult. (Just look at the internet and the problems we've had there - no solution provides complete control, so why bother at all?)

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Sosumi!

 

The CRAs seem intent on following the principle of:

 

Most data (irrespective of the accuracy)...for ever!

 

It's well worth being reminded at every opportunity that the CRAs and all of their banking and DCA lowlife mates are all just Private Companies, not Government Departments.

 

The usually sensitive and extensive data they hold can easily cause irreparable financial harm to the Data Subjects (us), and yet they appear to be almost totally unregulated to all intents and purposes.

 

The next Peasants Revolt should be for us all to stop giving automatic CRA Search and Data Processing consent to every Tom, Dick or Harry. Cut the CRAs off from their supply of our Data...I know it won't be instant or easy, but the start is to get the message out to everyone you know that routine lenders really don't need this now obligatory consent half as much as they think they do.

 

If given an option, refuse consent.

 

If not given an option to refuse consent, question why not exactly.

 

It's become far too automated, and the bankers have made it so on purpose. It has led to an absurd situation where almost all day to day Financial Decision Making by the majority of Lenders now depends wholly upon Data held by the CRAs. The bankers cannot do anything now without reference to your CRA Data.

 

They've removed the thinking process from the Lending process. Common sense left the building a long time ago.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[sosumi]

Brilliant post BRW - completely agree.

I once ordered something either from a TV or newspaper ad - I think TV. I know it said in the ad, 'If you don't want your information shared, please tell us when you order." I told them, but it wasn't easy and I suspect most people wouldn't take the trouble. All businesses are selling our data. I think CRAs want to be the 'information hub' - very lucrative for them!

[Strand08]

Subscribing! Great thread, very interesting and a bit of an eye opener to me. Will be following this with great interest. I have just applied for my credit file and they wrote back to me asking for more information. I have the letter ready to post back but am a bit paranoid now about giving information to a CRA.

[renegotiation]

I have just applied for my credit file and they wrote back to me asking for more information.

 

Favourite colour; Indian or Chinese; sexual fetishes? :lol:

[babybear39]

Favourite colour; Indian or Chinese; sexual fetishes? :lol:

 

Excellent renegotiation

[renegotiation]

It wouldn't surprise me though! From Wikipedia about Equifax:

 

'Equifax was founded as Retail Credit Company in 1899. The company grew quickly and by 1920 had offices throughout the US and Canada. By the 1960s, Retail Credit Company was one of the nation's largest credit bureaus, holding files on millions of American citizens.

Retail Credit Company's extensive information holdings, and its willingness to sell them to anyone, attracted criticism of the company in the 1960s and 1970s. These included that it collected "...facts, statistics, inaccuracies and rumors… about virtually every phase of a person's life; his marital troubles, jobs, school history, childhood, sex life, and political activities." The company was also alleged to reward its employees for collecting negative information on consumers.'

 

That is just shocking stuff IMHO. WTF...

[Allwood]

To think that this company has control of our data this is shocking!!

 

They are now in Wxford Ireland becasue there is such large tax breaks there for companies. Always looking out to make most money for very little effort. Well I have sent off my letter to them and am looking forward to hearing what they come back excuses no doubt.

[citizenB]

It wouldn't surprise me though! From Wikipedia about Equifax:

 

'Equifax was founded as Retail Credit Company in 1899. The company grew quickly and by 1920 had offices throughout the US and Canada. By the 1960s, Retail Credit Company was one of the nation's largest credit bureaus, holding files on millions of American citizens.

Retail Credit Company's extensive information holdings, and its willingness to sell them to anyone, attracted criticism of the company in the 1960s and 1970s. These included that it collected "...facts, statistics, inaccuracies and rumors… about virtually every phase of a person's life; his marital troubles, jobs, school history, childhood, sex life, and political activities." The company was also alleged to reward its employees for collecting negative information on consumers.'

 

 

 

That is just shocking stuff IMHO. WTF...

 

Why am I not surprised this started out in the US ?