help please with Cabot

[tomterm8]

Kingshill (No.1) Ltd actually changed its name on 15th January 2007 to Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd which was sitting dormant within their 'group' previously.not (Europe) Ltd Tomterm8. They just swapped names. Same company number just swapped names. Now Kingshill No1 Ltd sits dormant. (Europe)Ltd only act as 'administrators'.

 

This is why we get annoyed, (UK) Ltd BUY the debts & register the default, but never ever contact the alleged debtor. They pass the data about accounts they bought from the bank to another company cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd who then do all the chasing, harassing and corresponding with us all. But,they can't do this under the Data Protection Act without your permission - its as if they sent it to someone else altogether. Just because it is within the same 'Group' doesn't make it right, Cabot have got away with it for so long because they hide under this 'Cabot Financial' and 'Cabot Group' personna and they do it without having obtained any proof the debt exists (ie: with sight if the original Credit Agreement first). That makes it even worse. They are going to get thrashed over these once we have the final 'i's' dotted and 't''s crossed.

 

Yeah. For the purpose of this thread, though, the most significant fact, is that the Kingshill (No.1) Ltd which obtained the CCJ is a different company than the Kingshill (No.1) Ltd that applied for the charging order.

[Seahorse]

That is correct. But is this a technicality that could be used to have it removed? TECHNICALLY, the registered company number would be the same at the time of the FCO, regardless of the difference in name.

 

I wouldn't be comfortable relying solely on that to have the FCO removed. I'd want a little more ammunition.

[joshuaf1968]

very near the end of the 12+2 days....wondering if anyone had any suggestions when I should enter for Set Aside on CCJ and Final Charging Order...should I wait for 30 days? should I enter now? :confused:

[timewarp]

Hi

 

Not sure about what others may say but after 12+2 I cant see what should stop you entering for a set aside and app to remove the charging order it will force their hand surely

 

[joshuaf1968]

I got a letter back confirming receipt of my letter for CCA.

 

They say they have contacted the Vendor and say it may take some time..

 

If we go by 12+2 on Wednesday should I keep paying my monthly payment? if I do, does it mean I acknowledge also please bear in mind that these lovely people screwed me and got a final charging order...

 

mmmm:cool:

[andrew1]

I got a letter back confirming receipt of my letter for CCA.

 

They say they have contacted the Vendor and say it may take some time..

 

If we go by 12+2 on Wednesday should I keep paying my monthly payment? if I do, does it mean I acknowledge also please bear in mind that these lovely people screwed me and got a final charging order...

 

mmmm:cool:

 

I'm no whizz on FCO's but after the 12+2 you are entitled not to pay and they would need a court order to enforce the debt. The FCO is only (only!) a charge which would mean they would get paid when your house was sold so I suspect that if Cabot do not come up with the Original Credit Agreement to enforce the debt then you can apply to have the FCO removed as they would have had no right to put it on in the first place.

 

For the time being I would stop paying Cabot until they have the correct documents, BUT, I would strongly suggest that you keep what you have normally paid under the mattress so as not to get yourself in deeper trouble if the documents arrive and you have to continue paying.

[joshuaf1968]

Thanks Andrew1

 

It is interesting because there are 2 possibilities:

 

1 - They have no CCA I stop paying, what will they do as they have a FCO and a CCJ so they could try enforcement which I would obviously challenge so there is no loss there in real terms....even if they turn up the CCA I am entitled not to pay them and I would simply make the payments up and carry on

 

2 - They have no CCA I stop paying would they just leave it and hope I didn't go for a Set Aside?

 

Does anyone at all have any experience of this situation?

[tomterm8]

Thanks Andrew1

 

It is interesting because there are 2 possibilities:

 

1 - They have no CCA I stop paying, what will they do as they have a FCO and a CCJ so they could try enforcement which I would obviously challenge so there is no loss there in real terms....even if they turn up the CCA I am entitled not to pay them and I would simply make the payments up and carry on

 

2 - They have no CCA I stop paying would they just leave it and hope I didn't go for a Set Aside?

 

Does anyone at all have any experience of this situation?

 

it would be very, very stupid to stop pauing a ccj just because they defaulted on a CCA request, especially if they have a charging order. remember, a charging order is a seperate covenant, and by presumption is enforceable.

 

You would be well advised to go for a set aside, instead.

[joshuaf1968]

so at the 12+2 stage I need to enter for a Set Aside immediately then...

 

I timed the CCA request to arrive the day after the august payment thus giving me a month to CCA and hopefully for them to default.

 

The CCA is up in a week

 

On the Set Aside it would not be unreasonable to say that they have defaulted on the CCA (if they do ) so by the time of the hearing they should be able to produce it or not...

 

So if the CCJ was set aside this would automatically cancel the charging order then would it not?

[andrew1]

it would be very, very stupid to stop pauing a ccj just because they defaulted on a CCA request, especially if they have a charging order. remember, a charging order is a seperate covenant, and by presumption is enforceable.

 

You would be well advised to go for a set aside, instead.

 

Thanks TomTerm, I would hate giving out bad advice to anyone and I will stand by your better judgment on keeping paying, so my apologies to Joshua. My thoughts on this were based upon the fact that a ccj has been imposed where no Consumer Credit Agreement exists or cannot be supplied. How can a court issue a CCJ without sight of the original agreement? - I presume the debtor received a summons, didn't defend it and the court automatically issued the CCJ and thereafter the FCO. All this without a copy of the Original Agreement being seen?

 

If it then transpires that the Original Agreement is not forthcoming following a CCA request can the CCJ not be set aside, payments stop and some kind of restitution be made? Or am I being too overly optimistic?

 

I am aware of a situation where Geoffrey Parker Bourne for BOS have written to the debtor where a CCJ is in place and following a CCA request, stating that Quote " Our clients are not able to provide a copy of the signed agreement in this instance" ....blah de blah... " you have been paying and tried to settle the account so have accepted full liability etc please tell us how you are going to pay the balance.... The summons was never answered or a defence never put in because the debtor at the time was in no fit state health wise to respond.

 

..but without the Original Agreement surely this should never have reached CCJ stage?

 

I'd appreciate you views and it might point Joshua in the right direction. Again, thanks for correcting me and apologies to Joshua.

[tomterm8]

Thanks TomTerm, I would hate giving out bad advice to anyone and I will stand by your better judgment on keeping paying, so my apologies to Joshua. My thoughts on this were based upon the fact that a ccj has been imposed where no Consumer Credit Agreement exists or cannot be supplied. How can a court issue a CCJ without sight of the original agreement? - I presume the debtor received a summons, didn't defend it and the court automatically issued the CCJ and thereafter the FCO. All this without a copy of the Original Agreement being seen?

 

If it then transpires that the Original Agreement is not forthcoming following a CCA request can the CCJ not be set aside, payments stop and some kind of restitution be made? Or am I being too overly optimistic?

 

I am aware of a situation where Geoffrey Parker Bourne for BOS have written to the debtor where a CCJ is in place and following a CCA request, stating that Quote " Our clients are not able to provide a copy of the signed agreement in this instance" ....blah de blah... " you have been paying and tried to settle the account so have accepted full liability etc please tell us how you are going to pay the balance.... The summons was never answered or a defence never put in because the debtor at the time was in no fit state health wise to respond.

 

..but without the Original Agreement surely this should never have reached CCJ stage?

 

I'd appreciate you views and it might point Joshua in the right direction. Again, thanks for correcting me and apologies to Joshua.

 

Very complex legal situation, andrew. Firstly, as a point of law a CCJ is a seperate legal covenant, as I say. It is important to continue paying; however, you are entitled to apply for a set aside.

 

The lack of a Credit Agreement IS NOT grounds for a set aside to be granted, in itself, for a number of reasons. Firstly, the lack of a CCA doesn't prevent PAST enforcement taking place; maybe the CCA existed at the time the credit agreement was enforced. In any case, it's well established law that a credit agreement that is otherwised unenforceable can be enforced with the consent of a debtor; and failure to dispute a debt through the law courts, or to apply for a set aside when first informed of the case is often considered a type of tacit consent

 

You need to find other grounds under which you can dispute the CCJ. Unlawful charges are tghe most fruitful method; although an incorrect default notice or termination notice is also appropriate.

[andrew1]

Thanks tomterm, so a letter to Geoffrey Parker Bourne asking to provide details of what they relied on in court to have said CCJ allowed might not be appropriate?

[joshuaf1968]

Thanks for all the input..I appreciate it..

 

I read this The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) states that “if a creditor/owner fails to comply with a valid request within a period of 12 days (not including the date of receipt of the request) he may not enforce the agreement at all. This prevents enforcement with or without a court order. If a default lasts for a month (for example a calendar month) it constitutes an offence.

 

What does this mean? Does the Court Order part refer to CCJ's which means they cannot enforce.

 

I am trying to remember back but I think I acknowledged the Claim Form and disputed the whole debt but did not defend...one of those bury head in the sand moments...

 

If the DCA failed to show the original CCA in Court at the time i.e it went through on the nod surely I can challenge this under the revelation of new evidence i.e the DCA is unable to prove the debt, show notice of assignment etc?

 

For the avoidance of doubt..once the 12+2 goes by I need to apply for set aside then but continue payments on a 'I am paying but do not acept liability basis I just want to conform to the law' ..???

[tomterm8]

Thanks tomterm, so a letter to Geoffrey Parker Bourne asking to provide details of what they relied on in court to have said CCJ allowed might not be appropriate?

 

That sounds like a good plan of attack.

[joshuaf1968]

Cabot are now comfortably 12+2 overdue from CCA request.

 

The next payment is due end of this week/start of next.

 

What do I do? Remember they have a CCJ and a Charging Order...

 

There is a real split of opinion here..

 

Can anyone help with the law aspect? i.e they got a CCJ without showing a properly executed CCA but I have been making payments because they got the Charge.

 

:?

[tomterm8]

Cabot are now comfortably 12+2 overdue from CCA request.

 

The next payment is due end of this week/start of next.

 

What do I do? Remember they have a CCJ and a Charging Order...

 

There is a real split of opinion here..

 

Can anyone help with the law aspect? i.e they got a CCJ without showing a properly executed CCA but I have been making payments because they got the Charge.

 

:?

 

It's very important to not stop paying, since that would put your house at risk. You need to find grounds to overturn the CCJ - which will be difficult.

 

Have you SAR's the original creditor, and CABOT?

[joshuaf1968]

No I did not do S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to any of them...

 

Would this help?

 

My argument to Court would be...these guys got a CCJ without a CCA which should not have happended so could I go on to say...anyway not only do they not have a CCA but they have placed multiple and vast amounts of illegal charges? Would one argument cancel the other?