Capitulator v. Cap1

[Capitulator]

Hi All,

 

Nice to see quite a few successes here ! I am nearly (after much tribulation and delay) at the point where I can send off a request for repayment of penalty charges:cool:

 

I have numerous charges from 2002 to 2007 amounting to over £450 in total and it seems to me that I have been paying interest on the cumulative total of each of these charges plus interest but am not sure what interest rate I should be using. Unfortunately, with the apparent demise of claiming Contractual Compound Interest it seems I will have to stick with the 8% s.69 interest on top of that !

 

Where can I find Cap1's unauthorised rate ?

 

Tks,

[Capitulator]

Just contacted Cap1 and was told they do not have an unauthorised rate as such ! They told me that a penalty charge for a missed payment would be charged at their typical rate ! Is this correct as I've seen posts quoting unauthorised rates of 30% or more ?

[deedee1310]

Hi Capitulator.

 

The demise of CI applies to bank accounts. You can still claim it for credit cards, as you have been charged a contractual rate by them. You're probably best off charging it back at the APR you are being charged on your card, or you can charge it back at their Classic Visa card rate.

 

I am filing my N1 tomorrow and will be charging at 34.9% APR which is the rate for their Classic Visa card. I have offered the 8% rate as an alternative.

 

Good luck!

[steven4064]

spot on deedee

 

you can use vampiress's (VAMPIRESS'S CHAMBERS) spreadsheet number 13 with the appropriate APR

[deedee1310]

Thanks steven6064.

 

This means that I have read and understood your arguement well! I read your thread really late at night :o but for the life of me couldn't remember whose thread I had read when I made the above post. Seeing your name has helped me remember. Hee hee.

 

That'll teach me for reading too much at a time at all hours of the morning!

 

deedee x

[Capitulator]

Hang on a mo this is my thread - not a dating service :p

 

Anyway, thanks for your best wishes DeeDee (or should that be that DD !)

 

You can still claim it for credit cards, as you have been charged a contractual rate by them.

 

Just to clarify - I am going for the penalty charges plus the interest Cap1 have charged me on those to date. I am uncertain whether I should then charge them an appropriate rate on those amounts also only reverting to the stat. 8% if it goes to court:confused: ?

 

For example....I have a £20 late payment charge in Nov 2002 which is now £45 taking into account CI (all based on the typical APR I am on). I am claiming all of that back. But I am unsure whether I should also add to that my own interest as well which adds on another £25 over that period taking the total to £70. As I have another 24 charges like that it does make quite a difference !

 

I am filing my N1 tomorrow and will be charging at 34.9% APR which is the rate for their Classic Visa card. I have offered the 8% rate as an alternative.

 

As I have a Capital Platinum card (whoopeedoo...lucky, lucky me !) it seems I should stick to my own somewhat lower rate (23% approx.) !

 

What did you claim for in your original request for payment ? I understand the stat. 8% is only put on the N1 but am assuming their charges (and poss. mine) are included on the repayment request ?

 

As for Vamps spreadies (ooeerr!) I only seem to have "View" ability in Google and can't enter anything Perhaps I'll try harder.....!

 

Tks Steven and Deedee - will try and keep this thread updated with my progress !

[ukaviator]

Hi Capitulater

 

You can claim the CCI but not the 8% as well. It's one or the other. Make sure in your POC you include a paragraph about the 8% as an alternative to CCI if the judge is unhappy.

 

uk

[Capitulator]

You can claim the CCI but not the 8% as well. It's one or the other. Make sure in your POC you include a paragraph about the 8% as an alternative to CCI if the judge is unhappy.

 

Tks uk, that's exactly what I was going to do but I'm only at the request for repayment stage at the mo - I needed to make sure I was on firm ground with me charging them interest on the amounts (and interest) they have charged me ! I also need to make sure my argument for claiming it is fairly sound - is the principle of mutuality and reciprocity still applicable as this is a credit card claim ?

I believe there are discussions around using the argument of balance and fairness to get around the dismissal of M&R against banks that maybe I should use instead ?

 

Tks again,

[deedee1310]

Hey UK

 

In the value section of the N1 do you put the Statutory interest figures here or do you put the CI interest figure?

 

I'm not sure for credit cards!

 

Thanks

[steven4064]

Everything you are claiming including any interest (s69 or otherwise) but excluding court fees goes in the value section. Obviously you cannot include interest here from the date of claim until the date of judgement - but everything up to the date of claim goes here. The formula you want to apply to calculat einterest from the date of claim on goes in the Brief detilas of claim section (and POC).

[deedee1310]

Thanks.

 

Have decided to hold off N1 today due to funds. I have Haliprats to issue on Monday (bigger claim)!

 

deedee x

[ukaviator]

Hi Deedee / Capitulator

 

Stevens replied . .keep us posted team

 

Uk

[Capitulator]

For anyone who's interested (unintentional pun !

) here is some of my spreadsheet showing what I am claiming back. Could someone tell me whether what I am doing looks right as I am working out the interest on the cumulative total ? There are a lot more entries but the calculation is the same -

(current penalty + last amount inc. interest) * (1+monthly rate)^Months til next charge applied.

 

The columns are: D - date of charge, P - Penalty, M - no. of months until next charge applied, C - cumulative total of previous penalty + interest + current penalty, I - interest charged on cumulative total, R - my restitutional interest charged

 

D P M C I R

23/08/2002 £18.00 3 £19.38 £1.38 £1.05

23/11/2002 £20.00 1 £40.09 £0.70 £0.71

24/12/2002 £20.00 2 £62.25 £2.16 £2.24

24/02/2003 £20.00 3 £86.72 £4.48 £4.72

23/06/2003 £20.00 1 £108.62 £1.90 £1.94

24/07/2003 £20.00 1 £130.92 £2.29 £2.33

 

I realise my "restitutional" interest may be the subject of some argument (esp. by Cap1 ) however there appear to be new rulings that may yet mean courts will allow contractual interest ! Rather generously, I am only using my Cap1 rate rather than any "unauthorised" rate

Naturally, on my N1 I will ask for statutory 8% in the event that they don't allow my reciprocal/restitutional interest.

 

--------------------

 

Capitulator aka Tim

[deedee1310]

Hey Tim methinks you are on the right track!

 

deedee

[Capitulator]

Hey Tim methinks you are on the right track!

 

deedee

 

Thanks for the confidence booster Deedeedeedee! Now all I need is a hard-hitting letter requesting repayment

 

It seems (and is!) a long time since I started all this and I am now ready to rumble

 

Tks everyone - will keep you posted !

[Capitulator]

It seems (and is!) a long time since I started all this and I am now ready to rumble

 

Well, I thought I was ready to rumble but now I'm really befuddled ! I was going to include CI in my claim but everything seems to be up in the air about it at the mo. First there was the Halliday Case (Lost!) meaning CI was not claimable then there was Sempra last week which seemed to imply that it was on again !

 

What do I do ? Do I include it at least in my request for repayment and hope things pan out in favour of CI soon ? If I do that, should I include some "legalese" quoting the Sempra case that would add weight or just send the letter as is simply stating what I want back and leave any legal arguments and stuff for the N1 ?

 

Tks

[deedee1310]

Ooh that's a new developement I wasn't aware of. Do you have a link for either case? Were they for credit cards or bank accounts?

 

deedee x

[ukaviator]

The link is here Deedee:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cases-library/106112-sempra-metals-irc-july.html#post1015601

 

Capitulator, send your letter with CCI added. You will have to file a court claim before they pay out.

 

Uk

[deedee1310]

Thanks UK.

 

I will read this in a bit.

 

deedee

[ukaviator]

Thanks UK.

 

I will read this in a bit.

 

deedee

 

It's a lot to take in, and it's in Legalese too. Good luck

 

Uk

[Capitulator]

send your letter with CCI added. You will have to file a court claim before they pay out.

 

Thanks uk, I will do - I guess they either pay it or not, in which case I get statutory.

 

As regards exactly what to claim back, I am now really concerned that my calculations are incorrect !

 

I am attempting to use my own ss as I don't have enough info for Vamps' or Mindzai's sheets but after playing around with some figures I'm getting weird results !

 

My example was shown in post #13 but if I use a simpler method on each charge individually I end up with a bigger figure !?

 

For example an £18 in Aug 2002 will have accrued £33 interest to date, if I do that for every charge I end up with a higher figure than if I do it cumulatively ie. [[£18+interest] + Next £18] + Interest etc. up to now ?

 

What am I doing wrong ? I would have thought a cumulative approach is more like the card co. would use and would yield a higher amount !

 

It's not like I'm being greedy - I simply want to reclaim what they have charged me over the years !

 

tks,

[Capitulator]

.....hearing a sound in the distance, he paused his lonely walk, shielded his eyes from the burning desert sun and scoured the horizon looking for signs that he was not alone in this barren land. He saw nothing, and heard nothing more so continued his solitary quest for the truth....

[steven4064]

What interest rate (APR) are you using?

 

You should calculate a daily rate = (APR)^(1/365)

 

Then interest on each charge is

 

charge*[(daily rate)^(no of days since charge) - 1]

 

This is a good approximation to the interest they charged you provided your total balance is (always) bigger than the charges+interest so far.

[interestedbystander]

Ok guys - am officially confused!

1) can anyone point me in the direction of a correct spreadsheet to use to claim interest on a credit card charges claim

2) do we know now what interest we can claim prior to issueing at court

3) am i right in thinking that once i issue i can claim the contractual interest or the statutory interest of 8% but not both?

[alex_the_lad]

Hi!

 

1) can anyone point me in the direction of a correct spreadsheet to use to claim interest on a credit card charges claim

 

If you go to this thread (http://http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-6-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html) there is a link at the bottom to Vampress's Chamber. You need spreadsheet 13 to claim CCI. (Also you will need a google mail account - but it's free to get one).

 

2) do we know now what interest we can claim prior to issueing at court

 

Before court action you can claim the Contractual Compound interest, but not the 8% statutory interest.

 

3) am i right in thinking that once i issue i can claim the contractual interest or the statutory interest of 8% but not both?

 

That is right, but many people suggest that when you submit your claim to court that in your particulars of claim you list the amounts for CCI and also the statutory 8% interest - so that you give the judge an alternative incase the judge decides CCI is unfair.