Parking Tickets

[Azazal23]

Is there a time limit they can persue for these, ive just received last week, a a letter from the courts for a warrant for my arrest. After callling them to find out whats its in relation to they said they couldnt tell me other than they thought it was a parking offense. Wrote a letter asking for details they just got back today, ots from 2-11-2001!!!!!

 

The ofsense took place in Liverpool and i was working in Leeds at the time, my car was at home.

 

They said that all the paperwork, is in transit ie. beeing archived. How do i proceed, ask for copies of the original docs? copy of the ticket, court paperwork etc...

 

This is the first time i have received anything from them

[seylectric]

Sounds like it's for non-payment of a fine. Can't happen now if the schemes are council run because it's decriminalised but it wouldn't have been in 2001, the ticket would have been issued by the police.

 

All motoring offences, to the best of my knowledge, must be charged within 6 months of the date of the offence but I don't think there's a time lmit for collection of any subsequent fines. This could have been issued in error, sounds like a job for a solicitor or visit http://www.pepipoo.co.uk for good advice.

[JonCris]

The point here is that it's grossly unfair of councils to penalise people for not obeying local by-laws if they don't know those by-laws exist, especially if there is no way of knowing if there are no signs up. Do you check every by-law of every locality you enter? Of course you don't! Should you be reasonably expected to? Of course you shouldn't! But councils are using this sort of thing simply to make money out of people and for that there IS no excuse.

 

As for the broken double (or single) yellow lines issue, sorry but you are incorrect. The law states that the line has to be solid, i.e. unbroken. If it isn't it's not a legal yellow line and can't (or shouldn't) be enforced, where you are parked on it is irrelevant.

 

Correct

Also if the line is obscured at any part by fallen leaves or other debris it MAY not be valid. They can't charge us taxes & not clear the gutter. As the courts have said "they can't have it both ways"

If the line is broken by recent or old road works (they came along & dug a hole) its not valid.

If the road surface has broken up removing part of the line it isn't valid

If there is no end T bar it isn't valid

The list is endless & most motorists wouldn't pay a parking ticket if they knew

Carry a camera & if you get a ticket take plenty of photos making sure that your photos are able to ID location. Follow the line a take photos when you see any of the above markings even if they look legal

 

If you enter a private car park such as a supermarket & there are signs telling you that not complying or overstaying will result in you being 'fined' or paying a 'penalty'

Write to the parking company AND the store or other C/P owner & ask under which statute they are able to issue 'fines' or penalties' They aren't & its illegal for them to imply they can & it makes their tickets unenforcable

 

One of the biggest culprits for claiming this are the hospital car parks who tend to use the term 'penalty' a lot on the assumption that being a hospital people will assume they can. They cant

[seylectric]

Exactly, and one of the biggest issues for me is that councils expect us to obey th law but flout it themselves.

 

For example my stepson recently received a Notice to Owner relating to a parking ticket he had never got. We appealed on the basis that no ticket had been issued as far as we knew, but the appeal was rejected in a letter this morning:

 

"After careful consideration of the circumstances I have found no grounds for the cancellation of the charge. The PCN was correctly issued blah blah..."

 

So what? The PCN might well have been "correctly issued" but the law states something like it must be handed to the driver or stuck to the vehicle. It wasn't, the Notice to Owner was the first we knew about it (and I was with him on the day of the incident, he WAS parked partly on a bus stop but there was no ticket on the car when we got back to it).

 

If the driver wasn't issued with the PCN then whether he was illegally parked or not is irrelevant. What gives them the right to ignore the law? The council are either ignoring the law or are totally ignorant of it, next step will be to write back to them quoting the law in this case. I will invite the parking manager to offer his resignation.

 

This is all incidental anyway as the PCNs in my locality are illegally worded, more details in this thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5232

 

There's a lot of it but it's an interesting read...

[Guest Mumofthreeboys]

My DH had something similar to this. At the time he was a courier driver. He had just finished delivering to a chemist and was getting back in the van, when a car pulled up, the passenger got out and shouted at him 'you've just got yourself a ticket' then got back in the car and drove off.

 

He didn't think any more of it - until that is, an unpaid parking notice arrived. I wrote to them, but to no avail and we have since paid it, because the charges had already escalated as we hadn't paid the earlier fine that we didn't have!

 

I wonder if we can get the money back - must be worth a try, especially as it's illegal on quite a lot of counts.

[seylectric]

You will find more informative reading on the other thread I posted, link in the thread above your post.

[Guest Mumofthreeboys]

You will find more informative reading on the other thread I posted, link in the thread above your post.

 

Just read it all. Thanks for that, v interesting indeed.

 

I will do some contemplating over the weekend and compose a suitable letter me thinks!!

[JonCris]

Just read it all. Thanks for that, v interesting indeed.

 

I will do some contemplating over the weekend and compose a suitable letter me thinks!!

 

Parking tickets, speeding? go here http://www.pepipoo.com great site & the motoring equivalent of this one

[Sgian]

The yellow lines on the road are only a visual indication to the driver that there is a parking restriction in force. It is the PLATE mounted beside the road which states what the parking restriction is that must be correct in size, colour, wording - NOT the yellow lines. If the yellow lines are broken, or the wrong size, shape, shade of yellow - it makes no difference. A Fixed Penalty Notice can be issued and is enforcible as long as the plate is correct.

[seylectric]

Sorry, I've no idea what you got that little gem from but it's complete nonsense. In any event unless there are any particular restrictions there is no legal requirement for a plate anymore.

 

From Leicestershire CC's website:

"Do yellow lines always need a sign?"

 

"Not any more. Since January 2003 signs aren’t needed for ‘no waiting at any time’ unless it is a seasonal restriction"

[Guest Lueeze]

I got a ticket as my moeny had run out in a car park.

 

At the top it says Penalty charge notice...Im guessing this is the correct wording? I checked everything else on this thread.

[seylectric]

That's correct, if you want to email a copy to me I can check it for you though.

[JonCris]

I got a ticket as my moeny had run out in a car park.

 

At the top it says Penalty charge notice...Im guessing this is the correct wording? I checked everything else on this thread.

 

No the wording is wrong.

 

Since decriminalised parking was introduced local authorities have no power to issue “fines” which are by implication the same as “penalties”.

 

Most authorities where this term has been challenged have stopped using it.

 

A fixed penalty can only be given if you agree to it otherwise only a court of law can impose a “fine” or “penalty” It says so in "The Bill of Rights"

 

If the ticket refers to it being a fine or penalty it is invalid & frankly I’m surprised there are still councils out there still doing this but then I shouldn’t be I suppose

 

Also does it have a date of offence & date of issue & clear location?

 

The markings MUST comply with regulations & there should be no breaks. The lines must be of a specified size & have T bars donating their ends.

 

If Mr Utility comes along & digs a hole then fills it in but doesn’t replace the P/R lines then any restriction is invalid.

 

There are a multitude of other circumstances to numerous to go through here which invalidate parking restrictions & if you knew them all its highly unlikely you would ever pay another parking ticket

 

I will post links to some very good sites in my next post just that I have so much running on the PC at the moment it’ll take me a while

 

Watch out for the term "Penalty" in private car parks. s/markets hospitals etc they are all unenforcable although because most of these people are both arrogant AND stupid there are times when you may have to go to court to prove it

[seylectric]

Very interesting info about the word "Penalty" because alomst every parking ticket is officially referred to as a PCN - Penalty Charge Notice - and I haven't seen one that is worded differently, as far as I know that's the correct official wording. The main issue over wording on tickets seems to be the wording surrounding the date, i.e. if it doesn't have "Date of Issue" it's wrongly worded and it also must show a Date of Contravention. Blackpool's tickets are illegal on this score because they only show a Date of Offence.

 

Far more legal info in the other thread referred to earlier to be honest, shame we have to similar threads going really.

[Sgian]

Sorry, I've no idea what you got that little gem from but it's complete nonsense.

Got it direct from the Central Ticket Office, Strathclyde Police HQ, Pitt St, Glasgow.

This is the office that accepts the money, or issues the court summons for unpaid fixed penalty notices. They also issue the procedures, restrictions, and legislation to all Traffic Wardens in the Strathclyde region. According to them, the legislation in Scotland regarding yellow lines is just as I explained in my previous post.

 

 

edit to add: Traffic Wardens are still employed by the Police in many parts of Scotland, even in areas where the local council have their own Parking Attendants operating. The TWs enforce yellow lines, controlled parking areas, and on-street parking. The PAs stick to local authority car parks.

[chrismc]

Very interesting info about the word "Penalty" because alomst every parking ticket is officially referred to as a PCN - Penalty Charge Notice - and I haven't seen one that is worded differently, as far as I know that's the correct official wording. The main issue over wording on tickets seems to be the wording surrounding the date, i.e. if it doesn't have "Date of Issue" it's wrongly worded and it also must show a Date of Contravention. Blackpool's tickets are illegal on this score because they only show a Date of Offence.

 

Far more legal info in the other thread referred to earlier to be honest, shame we have to similar threads going really.

 

Wish I knew that a couple of months ago Seylectric when I got one at Vic Hospital, never mind next time I wll be armed!!

[seylectric]

Wish I knew that a couple of months ago Seylectric when I got one at Vic Hospital, never mind next time I wll be armed!!

 

chrismc, you will get more info from the "other" thread, there's a bit to go through but it's all there. Read about my fight there regarding unlawfully worded tickets (three weeks gone and no reply to my appeals, looks like they are struggling to come up with an answer and are possibly hoping I will be happy to hear no more from them and I will go away. I've got some awfully bad news for them if that's the case.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5232

 

 

Sgian, the law may be different in Scotland, I wouldn't know to be fair but it's definately not the case in England and Wales - if the lines are defective in any way they are invalid. I have to say though that if that information came from the Central ticket office the chances are that they don't know themselves and are doing what they do best - fobbing the public off with inaccurate, shall we say, information in the hope that people will think they themselves are in the wrong and pay up. Most do of course. I'm not one of them.

[Sgian]

Aye, I did think that the difference between Scottish and English law could have an effect on how the legislation is interpreted. When i contacted the CTO (it was a good few years back and my memory is not photographic so I can't remember the exact details) they told me about the yellow lines and the signs on the roadside. (what I said in my first post). I, of course, asked them to either send me, or direct me to the exact legislation that stated what they said. They actually sent me the Acts of Parliament and as far as I remember, there was a whole area around yellow lines that supported what they told me. Not long after that, I sat in the public gallery at a district court here to see a man being fined for parking on yellow lines, even though the lines were worn away to almost invisibility. It seems the Sheriff interpreted the legislation the same way the Central Ticket Office do.

 

I'm sure if anyone is interested enough to contact the Central Ticket Office, they'll supply you with the relevent legislation..

[JonCris]

Very interesting info about the word "Penalty" because alomst every parking ticket is officially referred to as a PCN - Penalty Charge Notice - and I haven't seen one that is worded differently, as far as I know that's the correct official wording. The main issue over wording on tickets seems to be the wording surrounding the date, i.e. if it doesn't have "Date of Issue" it's wrongly worded and it also must show a Date of Contravention. Blackpool's tickets are illegal on this score because they only show a Date of Offence.

 

Correct & is why I asked the poster the dates

 

Far more legal info in the other thread referred to earlier to be honest, shame we have to similar threads going really.

 

Which thread?

 

Correct but many councils have not stopped using the terms "penalty" or "fine" on their websites as a 1st step. Any which claim they are should & are being challenged. Some councils argue that the term "penalty" does not imply they are "fines".

 

As I said I will post links to some relevent sites later to day

[seylectric]

Which thread?

 

The link is in the post no. 42 above

[dw190]

Davies v Heatley [1971] R.T.R 145

Because by s.64(2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 traffic signs shall be of the size, colour and type prescribed by regulation, if a sign the contravention of which is an offence contrary to s.36 is not as prescribed by the regulation, no offence is committed if the sign is contravened, even if the sign is clearly recognisable to a reasonable man as a sign of that kind.

 

 

The above was for an alleged offence of crossing Double White Lines.

 

 

 

Prescribed Double Yellow Lines must conform. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113ba.gif There are NO PERMITTED VARIANTS

[seylectric]

Again, we conducted a similar debate on the other thread about signage. Strangely, there does seem to be a contradiction in the legislation because somebody else found another law that does permit councils to very the width of d/y lines.

[JonCris]

Again, we conducted a similar debate on the other thread about signage. Strangely, there does seem to be a contradiction in the legislation because somebody else found another law that does permit councils to very the width of d/y lines.

 

Yes they ARE allowed to vary the width (very narrow) & colour (dark red) but I believe it only applies to conservation areas:rolleyes:

 

All other lines have are only allowed a certain tolerance

[seylectric]

"Allowing them to vary the width" and "allowing a certain tolerance" is exactly the same thing! Even the variations have to be within the permitted tolerance. But as I said this tends to go against the actual regulation which states that no variations are permitted.

 

Dark red? Conservation areas? There are rules for conservation areas, but with all due respect I really think you need to clarify these things before posting because you clearly haven't done your research, either you have been given some very poor information from somebody or you're simply guessing.

 

Don't take this personally but the post is in danger of misleading people. I'm not having a go, but this is a very important topic and it's imporatant that any advisory information is accurate or at least backed up with a link.

[seylectric]

Wish I knew that a couple of months ago Seylectric when I got one at Vic Hospital, never mind next time I wll be armed!!

 

ASK THEM FOR YOUR MONEY BACK! THEY HAVE CLAIMED IT ILLEGALLY.