SamaraSea v Barclays x 3 FINALLY!!!

[tonycee]

Afternoon Sam. I have sent you a PM.

[SamaraSea]

Hi all,

 

Well after quite some time faffing around trying to make a decision as to whether to start the court process prior to my having major back surgery (will be semi bionic ), I have decided what the hell, to get the ball rolling, built up the confidence ready for the hop, skip and jump to court .

 

Thought I would start with Barclays Bank and then tackle Barclaycard x 2, Amex and then Capital 1.

 

However, I would really appreciate your help along the way as I am CAG forum researched overloaded and on legally medicated round the world trips frequently throughout the day.

 

Soooo, I have 3 Barclays accounts that I would like to claim my monies back from - Current/ Aadditionsand small business accounts.

 

I have received all my statements

Sent my initial letter (without interest)

Been fobbed off as everyone else

Sent another letter

Received a settlement for my additions and business account which have accepted only as partial offer and requested full settlement to no avail.

Send all LBA letters for all 3 accounts.

 

I have kept all correspondences separate for the 3 accounts mainly for my own benefit, although Barclays did try to combine the Additions and current accounts but failed to address correspondence collectively.

 

So I have inserted my drafted N1 form for my current account and would appreciate it if you could let me know if I have all the facts and figures right before I get going.

 

 

I know I have an excuse for getting it wrong but would rather make this as painless as possible, especially under my current circumstances!!

 

I am really concerned that the text in red maybe calculated or written incorrectly especially the daily rates and %. I am also not too sure as to whether I have the correct address?

 

 

Barclays Bank PLC

Leicester

LE87 2BB

 

 

Money claim for return of penalty charges applied to Claimants credit card account by the Defendant

 

Charges £685.00

Interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 £279.16

Court Fee £80.00

 

TOTAL £ 1044.16

 

Plus interest pursuant to S.69 County Courts Act 1984 from date of issue to date of judgement/settlement at £0.21 per day OR at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

 

1. The Claimant has an account XXXXX ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around XXXXXXX.

 

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £685.00 and any interest charged thereon;

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from 5th April 2000 to 10th November 2005 of £279.16 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.21 %

 

Any comments, suggestions and support et al would be gratefully received

 

Thanks sooooooooooo much

 

Sam

 

Amex £207 + 8% int (Partial accepted £114)

Cap One £280 + 8% int (Declined Offer)

Barclays 1 £685 + 8% int (Declined Offer) Staring N1

Barclays 2 £310 + 8% int (Partial accepted £235) Staring N1

Barclays 3 £410 + 8% int (Declined Offer) Staring N1

BC Visa £ 80 + 8% int (Declined Offer)

BC MC £240 + 8% int (Declined Offer)

[SamaraSea]

Afternoon Tony, thanks

 

Have sent you a PM too

[saintly_1]

Hi SamaraSea

There was no need to start a new thread .... you just use the thread that you already have running

[SamaraSea]

Hi Just to update you all,

 

I have decided to start a new thread as I have decided to go for it!! TI have put the new thread details and a link to it below.

 

Thanks to everyone for their posts and please pop in to my new thread as your help, advice, guidance and support et al is always welcome.

 

Many thanks

 

Sam

 

Soon to be bionic SamaraSea v Barclays x 3 (Additions, Current, Small Business)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/104484-soon-semi-bionic-samarasea.html

[SamaraSea]

Hi Saintly,

 

Just thought it was better, sorry as I thought the thread may be confusing as the thread switched theme.Didn't want to loose people along the way, let alone myself!!!

 

Sam

[HSBCrusher]

Threads merged...

 

Please keep to one thread!

 

thanks

 

Crusher

[SamaraSea]

Feel like billy no mates in here now!!!!

 

Can anyone let me knoe if the text in the N1 form is ok so I can get the ball rolling and get the N1 forms submitted by the end of the week.

 

Many thanks

 

Sam

[welshcakes]

Hi Samara

 

Not sure what yo're asking re N1. DO you mean can someone check the N1 you've completed?

 

This link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/681-4-particulars-claim-n1.html gives you word for word what you need to write in N1.

[SamaraSea]

Thanks Welshcakes,

 

I actually used the link you mentioned but I am really concerned that the text in red on post 27 maybe calculated or written incorrectly especially the daily rates and %. I am also not too sure as to whether I have the correct address?

 

I am also aware that people have also included postal costs and hourly rate charges, is this true?

 

Many thanks

 

Sam

[welshcakes]

Hi Sam

 

The daily rate of interest is 0.00022 x the amount of your claim. This is correct.

 

So say you have

 

Charges = £115.00

Interest charges on the charges = £3.00

 

Your total claim is £118.00

 

£118.00 x 0.00022 = 26 pence (is actually 25.96 p so we round it up)

 

The daily rate of interest would be 26 pence.

As far as costs such as postage are concerned, do not include any of these. When you win your charges back, you can always go for what's called a Wasted Costs Order which basically asks for the Defendant to pay up all the costs you incurred from pursuing the claim - they are only given where the judge consideres the bank to have acted unreasonably in the run up to the hearing.

Hope that helps, if not, re-post

[SamaraSea]

Thanks welshcakes, much appreciated.

 

I think based on your calculation that I am right with the daily rate of interest : charges = £685.00 + interest charge on the charges = £279.16

Total daily rate of interest = 21p

 

However, in the POC section 5c, it mentions the daily rate again. Should this be the same as I calculated above as in the template it also mentioned a %.

 

Would appreciate your advice

 

Many thanks

Sam

 

c) The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from 5th April 2000 to 10th November 2005 of £279.16 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.21 %

[saintly_1]

yes it should

[SamaraSea]

Thanks Saintly 1, much appreciated.

 

I just have 1 more question before I finalise the forms and print them off!

 

1. With my Barclays Additions a/c I accepted £235 as a partial offer. Actual amount claiming back is £310. Do I just claim outstanding £75 and all the interest calculated for the £310 or do I need to deduct the £235 from the charges and the interest linked to that amount?

 

Many thanks

Sam

[welshcakes]

Hi Sam

 

When you say you accepted, did you

1) Receive the £235 as a cheque which you have cashed/had it credited back into account

2) Under what conditions was it offered - ie did their letter of offer state it was full and final settlement?

3) Did you write to the bank stipulating that you accepted the £235 as partial payment only?

 

If the bank offered the money (normally stated as "a gesture of goodwill") as full and final settlement of your claim against them and you have accepted under these conditions, you do not have a case for pursuing anymore money back.

 

If you accepted it back under your own conditions that it would represent only a partial payment on the outstanding amount, then you can carry on claiming the £75 but of course £75 is the full amount of any court claim you now make and consequently, you can only claim 8% Statutory Interest on that £75 (Stat Interest can only be apllied at the point of filing a court claim).

 

Just as importantly, if they made you an offer, and you accepted it in writing as a partial payment BUT you haven't received the £235, it may be Barclays have withdrawn the offer - they often don't tell you it's withdrawn, it'll be for you to check the reason as to why you haven't received the money.

 

Don't print off anything until you know where you stand with this £235 offer.

 

Post again so we can assess whether you still have a claim.

[SamaraSea]

Hi welshcakes,

 

I accepted the £235 only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder, together with interest upto the date of judgement and court fees in the proceedings through the county court.

 

I have not heard from them since for this account and or the current account.

 

When I called Barclays then told me that they were supposed to be dealing with the 2 accounts together but again I have not heard anything even since follow up letters.

 

They put the money into my account but I have checked online to see if it was withdrawn again but my online banking will only let me go back to the beginning of may.

 

Should I write to them asking them to withdraw the money from my account or to check if they haven't already done so or should I leave it and just claim the £75 and interest?

 

Many thanks Sam

[SamaraSea]

Sorry the money went into my account at the end of march/beginning of april. I wrote back to them in April and have not heard from them since.

 

They have put in the standard 8 weeks line but due to my having back treatment and procedures.

 

When I spoke to Barclays and they said the 2 accounts would be dealt with together they said I would expect a response by the 11th June. Nout received tho.

 

Sam

[SamaraSea]

Ok just spoken to Barclays and they are even more confused than me for the following reasons:

 

I have 2 reference numbers that seem to cover the same account but mentions on their notes that the offer of £235 was for both the Additions and current accounts.Also the gesture of goodwill payment was made to my Additions account.

 

What they have done, which was requested back in May is that she has requested that they write to me again to clarify:

 

- what account/s the references and correspondance apply to

- what account/s the gesture of good will was for

- what the current positions is

 

They then said as I have not received a response to further correspondance regarding my current account that I should wait for the letter clarifying the situation and re respond accordingly.

 

So thats as clear as muck!!! BUT could I then when the letter arrives regardless if it was for the Additions and or both accounts request that the money is withdrawn from my account with immediate effect?

 

I have been misled and the monies being claimed for the 2 accounts is just under £1000 and therefore £235 is not acceptable and it would also mean that my seperate N1 forms for both accounts would have to be a joint submission.

 

Not sure if I am making sense?

 

Thanks

Sam

[welshcakes]

Hi Sam

Ok, so you currently are claiming on 3 separate accounts:

Barclays 1 £685 + 245.25 int

Barclays 2 £310 + 120.80 int (Partial accepted £235)

Barclays 3 £410 + 22.21 int

You have gone through all the steps and did receive an offer from B's offering you £235 back and regardless of which accounts the pffer was supposed to reflect, you wrote back and stipulated that the money was accepted as partial only and that it was not full and final settlement and that you were going to pursue outstanding amount:

£1793.26 - £235 = £1558.26

The confusion I take it is which accounts does that £235 refer to - is it just one or is it some bizarre split offer between 2 or even the 3 accounts! And now Barclays are asking you to wait for them to investigate ie hold up your filing of a claim with the court!

Hhhmm, yet again Barclays are dictating the timescale and quite frankly if they haven’t been efficient enough to give you a straight answer as to what the £235 represented, you may still be waiting months down the line.

I would press on with your court claim.

Now, if I were you, I would consider that since the money was placed back into your Additions account (and in the absence of any detailed breakdown from Barclays to the contrary), that it can be reasonable deemed as a partial payment against that account.

You are therefore still therefore going to submit a claim for all three accounts but you need to adjust the Additions Account claim figure down by £235.

It doesn't make any difference to the actual charges amount you are claiming whether the £235 was spread 1, 2 or 3 ways between all the accounts. What it does of course affect is the 8% interest that you'll claim once you file.

As I understand your LBA 14 day deadline is up and so you now want to push on with filing a claim. I think you should put in a singular claim for all accounts. That way, everyone including the court is just dealing with one set of facts and B's will be forced to marry up all their actions and figures.

[SamaraSea]

Wow thanks welshcakes, you make it sound so easy!!!

 

Have checked my letters and summary below but have noticed that the dates on the letters don't correspond to when I sent my letters!!! How cheeky and convenient! It also gets very confusing as they conveniently changed the ref numbers, then not referred to what accounts they are reponding to just to send me nuts, hence my phone call to them and still no response

 

Additions A/c

-1st letter sent 26/2/07 initial request and response required in 14 days

-Received response saying thanks will get back to you end of march

-2nd letter sent 13th April stating no response and response required in7

days

-Received letter dated 27th March with offer for £235 which had a

different reference number on it which is where it got confusing

 

Business A/c

- 1st letter sent 1st March initial request & response required in 14 days

- Barclays Resp received 13th March saying we are looking into it and will

respond by 29th March

- Barclays resp received 3rd April same ref but no mention of business A/c

stating delay till 30th April wasn't clear so

- 2nd letter sent 13th April as a follow up as no response received &

intend to claim back all monies inc interest et al through county court

response required in 7 days

- Barclays resp received 25th May with offer of £250 towards the total

amount, gesture of goodwill, in full & final settlement of my complaint. If

you would like to accept please sign and return enc form & payment will

be credited to A/c in 10 working days of receipt of acceptance at this

office.

- 3rd letter sent 31st May stating will accept sum offered only as part

settlement etc etc..... response required in 7 days

- No further response from Barclays and £250 not credited to my A/c

 

Current A/c

- 1st letter sent 26th Feb 07 initial request and resp required in 14 days

- No response rec

- 2nd letter send re not heard from them or received a satisfactory

response and that I was writing to inform them that I intend to claim the

full amount claimed together with interest up to the dateof

judgementand court fees in the proceedings through the county court.

Response required in 7 days.

- No reponse but then there is the letter on the 25th May that they are claiming was an offer for the Additions and current account.

 

Sorry but had to go through it all!!! So does that constitute the LBA letter for all 3 accounts? I know I gave them 7 days for subsequent letters from the initial one.

Is it ok to include the business a/c in the 1 court claim?

What is the best way to work out the final figs and interest in deducting the 235 for the additions a/c?

 

Sorry it this is sounding nuts but my meds have kicked in and I am on one of my round the world trips!

 

Many thanks

 

Sam

[welshcakes]

Hi Sam

Okay, now please appreciate this is my take on your situation and as I have not come across it before, my advise is not professional advise. You may find some whizzes come along soon and give you far better advise. J

Business Account :

so from the above timeline, we can definitely say that the Business account charges are all outstanding and that they made a goodwill gesture which they appear to have retracted because you clarified that you would only accept as part payment.

You are fine to get this one straight to filing of a claim for whole amount plus of course the 8% Stat Interest.

Additions Account :

You sent Preliminary request for money back on 26th Feb 2007.

You sent LBA 13th April and consequently appear to have received a back dated goodwill offer to settle.

Q1 : In your response letter accepting the £235 as partial payment, did your letter state which account you were discussing (eg did you put Re; A/c No xxxxxx anywhere in your letter)?

If you did then that is evidence enough that you were accepting it as part payment against the Additions Account only.

By putting money back in your account, they can reasonably be expected to have understood this.

Current Account :

You sent Preliminary request for money back on 26th Feb 2007 same date as Additions Account.

Q2 : Did you write two separate letters on the 26th Feb or did you use one combined letter for them both?

If you used the latter, this will be why you only had one acknowledgement letter and possibly would explain why Barclays believe they legitimately made a combined offer back.

Working out Interest

You should deduct the earliest of charges up to the value of £235 from Additions SOC. £235 probably does correlate exactly with the charges, so you’ll find you have reduce a charge by the outstanding couple of £s.

You’ll now have an amended SOC that is clear of the £235 worth of charges that have been paid back.

You don’t have to re-work the interest. You were still charged interest for all the charges and despite them having refunded £235 of charges, they haven’t refunded any of the interest.

You asked them for the breakdown of the £235, they were unable to provide it so you are justified in using to your own analysis which you have calculated to the best of your ability.

Offering to give the settlement back

Quite honestly I wouldn’t do that. You wrote to them saying you were willing to accept as part payment and you have. That’s all the £235 is, a part payment. Keep it and now put in a claim for the rest = £1,558.26.

It’s just on the line for the £1,500 Small Claims -v- Fast Track Allocation however you’re going to win in the end so just fill in your N1 and take down 3 copies plus 3 copies of each of your 3 schedules (ie 9 SOCs in total) - I would create separate schedules for each account for ease of understanding for the court.

[saintly_1]

I couldnt of put it better myself welshcakes

[SamaraSea]

Hi welshcakes,

 

Thanks and I appreciate your advice.

 

It is a sticky situation but I think they are playing games and or just being awkward!!! Okay, regarding your questions:

 

Q1 : In your response letter accepting the £235 as partial payment, did your letter state which account you were discussing (eg did you put Re; A/c No xxxxxx anywhere in your letter)?

 

Answer: Yes I did both the account number and reference number

 

 

Current Account :

 

You sent Preliminary request for money back on 26th Feb 2007 same date as Additions Account.

 

Q2 : Did you write two separate letters on the 26th Feb or did you use one combined letter for them both?

 

Answer: Yes all correspondance inc SOC, has been written separately for each individual account to prevent confusion (not that that worked!)

 

Working out Interest

Thanks for clarifying this as I thought I would have to adjust the interest also.

 

 

Have a few Questions sorry.

Can I just clarify that in the N1 form I am required to put the account numbers and then the amount of the charge and interest. I assume that this will be the lump sum £1,558.26 and the SOC will provide the breakdown of the charges.

 

Is it still ok for the business account to be included in the one N1 form with the Additions and Curent account?

 

Im not sure what you meant by for the £1,500 Small Claims -v- Fast Track Allocation?

 

 

Thanks welshcakes, very much appreciated

Sam:razz:

[welshcakes]

Hi Sam

 

Well, excellent news regards your acceptance letter of their settlement offer. Whilst they will probably enter a Defence that tries to pull wool over judge's eyes, I think you are on very firm ground for demonstrating that this partial payment was associated soley with the Additions account.

 

Regards N1, yes, in the particulars of claim, you will have to go through the account detailing process for all three accounts. You can then state that the accumulative total your are claiming for all three accounts = £1558.26.

 

Sorry, forget the bit about small claims -v- fast track - the cut off point is £5,000 not £1,500 so you will definitely be a Small Claims case.

[SamaraSea]

Thanks again welshcakes, you r a star!!!

 

All sounds good to me and I think the judge would see that there have been a comedy of errors with this whole process from start to end.

 

I am going to get the forms done tonight ready to take to court tomorrow as I am going in for a Nerve root block on saturday so will be off my feet for a few days . At least I will be able to not have to worry about it for a few days!

 

On the SOC I will keep the interest but delete the £235 and is it worth me putting a note on it stating that £235 part payment received and SOC changed accordingly to reflect this.

 

I may if it is ok post the final N1 here or PM to you if thats ok just to make sure I have it written out right. Happy to post if easier if that is ok??

 

Many thanks again

 

Sam