SLC Cannot Supply The Original Agreement

[paulwlton]

Hi

I was wondering do the credit cards and/or loan companies have to supply the ORIGINAL agreement (CCA) in court or will a copy suffice?

Cheers

 

To enforce the agreement in court the creditor must have a fully executed original agreement, if not then the court is precluded from enforcing the debt.

[gill5blue]

Does that mean the ORIGINAL?

Because I suspect that they have scanned the original to a computer and then shredded the original agreement, which could mean people are recieving a printed copy of the scanned agreement and not a photocopy of the original agreement, also this means they cannot produce the Original in court

Cheers

[paulwlton]

Does that mean the ORIGINAL?

Because I suspect that they have scanned the original to a computer and then shredded the original agreement, which could mean people are recieving a printed copy of the scanned agreement and not a photocopy of the original agreement, also this means they cannot produce the Original in court

Cheers

 

A true copy would suffice.

[Peterbard]

A true copy would suffice.

 

Hi

 

Sorry to contradict Paul but my information from the OFTsuggests that the orriginal copy would be required by the court.

The letter is on here somewhere.

 

Best regards

Peter

[paulwlton]

Hi

 

Sorry to contradict Paul but my information from the OFTsuggests that the orriginal copy would be required by the court.

The letter is on here somewhere.

 

Best regards

Peter

 

Thanks for that, not seen the letter.

 

Paul

[Peterbard]

Hi Paul

 

Yes i posted it on the loan thread some time ago around about Jan I think B***red if i can find it when i do i will repost it .

I think we could do with a sepperate thread where we could keep all correspondance like this it comes in useful to quote the DTI or OFT when confronting an awkwaard DCA or creditor .What do you think

Best regards

Peter

[ncf355]

I second that PB, good idea there

 

Mods?

[zubo]

Thanks for that, not seen the letter.

 

Paul

 

in addition Paul, I know a number of Creditors provide unsigned agreements stating that these ARE true copies, my take on this is to say - show me what I actually signed upto, prove to me that it complies exactly with CCA otherwise I require you to comply with cpr 4.6 - see here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/79147-consumer-credit-act-resources-2.html

 

#30

 

Z

[JonCris]

You may provide copies in the court bundles, but you MUST have the originals to hand (usualy in your bundle) should any document be disputed & to show that any copy contract or signed agreement produced as evidence is a 'true' copy

 

If in court they claim to have a true copy which you have never seen it's important to dispute it's authenticity.

Ask the court to order production of the 'original' agreement

[angry cat]

Hi Paul

 

Yes i posted it on the loan thread some time ago around about Jan I think B***red if i can find it when i do i will repost it .

I think we could do with a sepperate thread where we could keep all correspondance like this it comes in useful to quote the DTI or OFT when confronting an awkwaard DCA or creditor .What do you think

Best regards

Peter

 

Oh Peter, please can you re-post the OFT & DTI Rt Hon. Ian McCartney letters again:)

I have just spent the last two hours trying to find them, I even looked in zubo's resources.

 

Thanks, Your a Darling!

 

AC

[andrew1]

When a DCA buys a debt does anyone know what documentation (deed of Assignment, Original Agreement etc) should accompany the transaction according to the various Acts of Parliament?

 

Especially if the DCA has bought a ' block' of accounts where only basic details are transfered by cd.

[Peterbard]

HI

 

I have started a new thread and put a few of the letters on it i will go through my inbox and put on the rest when i get a minute ,I think the one you want is on there AC.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/93663-letters-dti-oft-regarding.html#post860965

[zubo]

Oh Peter, please can you re-post the OFT & DTI Rt Hon. Ian McCartney letters again:)

I have just spent the last two hours trying to find them, I even looked in zubo's resources.

 

Thanks, Your a Darling!

 

AC

 

actually Pierre..

 

it might make sense to put resources into that thread

 

 

 

Z

 

duhhh just noticed you started new thread.... ah well

[Peterbard]

actually Pierre..

 

it might make sense to put resources into that thread

 

Z

 

Hi

 

I think it would be a good idea if you want to merge the threads or link them or do whatever technical wizardry you do please feel free

 

Best regards

Peter

[gill5blue]

Hi

 

Sorry to contradict Paul but my information from the OFTsuggests that the orriginal copy would be required by the court.

The letter is on here somewhere.

 

Best regards

Peter

 

Cheers for that

do you now how the CCA's are stored?

 

[JonCris]

Cheers for that

do you now how the CCA's are stored?

 

 

It's my understanding they aren't & that is why so many DCA's have difficulty in providing copies causing them to write it off as unenforceable

 

The finance industry have over the last few years, with the sole interest of profit, developed systems & models that mean they do not comply with the CCA.

 

To do this they have relied both on the apathy & lack of knowledge of the consumer but now their own greed & continued abuses is coming back to bite them

[paulwlton]

HI

 

I have started a new thread and put a few of the letters on it i will go through my inbox and put on the rest when i get a minute ,I think the one you want is on there AC.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/93663-letters-dti-oft-regarding.html#post860965

 

Good work Peter.

[paulwlton]

You may provide copies in the court bundles, but you MUST have the originals to hand (usualy in your bundle) should any document be disputed & to show that any copy contract or signed agreement produced as evidence is a 'true' copy

 

If in court they claim to have a true copy which you have never seen it's important to dispute it's authenticity.

Ask the court to order production of the 'original' agreement

 

Agreed.

 

Documents- the originals must be in court, and unless a document is agreed as being authentic by the other side the person who produced the document will have to appear in court to "prove" it.

[angry cat]

HI

 

I have started a new thread and put a few of the letters on it i will go through my inbox and put on the rest when i get a minute ,I think the one you want is on there AC.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/93663-letters-dti-oft-regarding.html#post860965

 

 

Thanks Peter...thats great!

 

However, the letter that I have been searching for is from DTI, Rt Hon Ian McCartney to Michael Foster MP dated December 06.

 

The letter is in response to a further letter from Michael Foster MP dated 24 November 06

 

Love AC

[minky93]

Hi! everyone

This is my first post and boy am I glad I found this community.

My woes started in 2001 when my husband declared himself bankrupt.One of his creditors was Capital Bank Group for a £6000 loan amount declared on bankruptcy £9213.41 (amount they gave us) I remember that we could not find the agreement but all correspondence from them including letters asking for money came in my husbands name only so it was included in the bankruptcy (we assumed it was only in my husbands name)

 

I received a final notice from Bank Of Scotland through a solicitor ( loan in both names)asking for £9340.90 threatening Court Action. I arranged to pay them £80 per month which I have faithfully kept up but never had a statement off them or anything to say what I still owe, I worked it out that the money BOS had received from us is around £7152.36 I decided to cancel the DD and wait to see what happened.

 

I had parted from my husband at the time of bankruptcy and stayed with his sister for a while during all the upheaval a lot of docs were lost or so we thought. The CCA (customers copy) has been found signed by ???? on behalf of Cap One Bank dated 17th December 1999 but there are no signatures from us not even a hint of one (carbon copy) plus the fact that we have 2 of same identical???.

 

I have been going through all the threads and I am wondering if I should ask for a copy of the cca using the standard format or will my copy of the cca stand up.

It is the proper cca with all the amounts ect and does say Please sign below for your personal loan This is a credit agreement regulated by the CCA 1974. Sign only if you wish to be legally bound by its terms and no signatures !!!!!

PS I forgot to mention that a letter has just been delivered to my sister in laws,addressed to me From a solicitor Re: Bank of Scotland plc We are instructed by Wescot Services Ltd on behalf of the above ect (debt £4712.90)threatening legal proceedings if no payment rec within 7 days.

Can some kind person please advise I have been worrying myself sick over it.

thank you!

[spiritgirl59]

Hiya Minky

 

First of all, I would start your own separate thread on this in the DCA forum so that your posts don't get lost on other threads.

 

From my own point of view I would definitely send the CCA request as shown in the templates on here; send it recorded delivery so that you can later ascertain the date/time they received it, and of course if they don't comply with your request you will have the timescales for when they are in default.

 

Am I mistaken or do you have two alleged debts which are in dispute?CapOne and Royal Bank of Scotland? If so, you need to CCA both of them. Don't worry you have been contacted by a "solicitor on behalf of Westcot" this is their attempt to frighten you. Westcot is a DCA and you will see from various threads on here that they are a pain in the rear to deal with.

 

You also mentioned that CapOne was in your husband's name, and if this is so, then as far as I am aware they cannot chase you for a debt which is not in your name, all the more reason you CCA them and find out whose name is on the original agreement.

 

I'm sure others will come back to you on this, but meantime if I were you I would CCA them and see where you go from there. Please try not to worry, there are so many of us on here who are in the same position as you Minky and we are all here to offer you support and help.

 

Start with the CCA letters, open your thread so we can follow your progress, and try not to worry. They are a long way from their proposed "legal action" - they need to lawfully comply with YOUR requests first.

 

Spiritgirl x

[gill5blue]

It's my understanding they aren't & that is why so many DCA's have difficulty in providing copies causing them to write it off as unenforceable

 

The finance industry have over the last few years, with the sole interest of profit, developed systems & models that mean they do not comply with the CCA.

 

To do this they have relied both on the apathy & lack of knowledge of the consumer but now their own greed & continued abuses is coming back to bite them

 

GOOD GOD, are they suicidal?

I have requested copies of my CCA's from lots of my credit cards(i have quite a few)

If they cannot supply them then I will go for 'unenforcable' and I will not feel guilty, they should..... well I'm speechless

.............................

[spiritgirl59]

How long after DCAs have ignored your CCA should you leave it before you write and ask for the debt to be written off guys??

 

BCW have well defaulted on my CCA requests now (they totally ignored them), as have two other DCAs. I sent them at the beginning of April. Can I now write and ask them all to write off the debts? What's the best wording?

 

Thanks

Spiritgirl x

[gill5blue]

I have not got dca but if you request CCA they need to supply within 12 days after that they have 30 days if not recieved they have commited an offence

I suggest you look at the main site for clarification

Cheers

[minky93]

Hi! spiritgirl

 

Thank You! so much for your reply.

and thanks for the advice it is much appreciated and I will start my own thread.

There is only one creditor Capital One Bank .. which is a part of the Bank of Scotland plc.

Apparantly the debt it is in both names but any correspondence received from them previous to the bankruptcy always just had my husbands name on it which is why it was included in the Bankruptcy and as far as we were aware it was dealt with in the bankruptcy and not knowing the legalaties of it all, is all way over my head.

 

thanks again! to know there are others willing to give help & advice is such a comfort and it is great to feel a little empowered and not just floundering & helpless.

minky

Hiya Minky

 

First of all, I would start your own separate thread on this in the DCA forum so that your posts don't get lost on other threads.

 

From my own point of view I would definitely send the CCA request as shown in the templates on here; send it recorded delivery so that you can later ascertain the date/time they received it, and of course if they don't comply with your request you will have the timescales for when they are in default.

 

Am I mistaken or do you have two alleged debts which are in dispute?CapOne and Royal Bank of Scotland? If so, you need to CCA both of them. Don't worry you have been contacted by a "solicitor on behalf of Westcot" this is their attempt to frighten you. Westcot is a DCA and you will see from various threads on here that they are a pain in the rear to deal with.

 

You also mentioned that CapOne was in your husband's name, and if this is so, then as far as I am aware they cannot chase you for a debt which is not in your name, all the more reason you CCA them and find out whose name is on the original agreement.

 

I'm sure others will come back to you on this, but meantime if I were you I would CCA them and see where you go from there. Please try not to worry, there are so many of us on here who are in the same position as you Minky and we are all here to offer you support and help.

 

Start with the CCA letters, open your thread so we can follow your progress, and try not to worry. They are a long way from their proposed "legal action" - they need to lawfully comply with YOUR requests first.

 

Spiritgirl x