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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Another PCN case on private land


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Hi all,

 

I've just found this site and wish that I'd found it sooner! I'm sorry for posting this, as I know there is plenty of similar information on here already. I've read the legal briefing notes, but was hoping for some confirmation on what I should do, as my situation doesn't quite fit with the advice provided.

 

My situation is that I received a ticket for overstaying a 2 hour limit in a private car park (a DIY shop), when in fact I was there for nowhere near 2 hours. Not knowing the legality, I quickly appealed against the notice using the sort of language that I would for appealing against a council issued charge:

 

I am writing to appeal against a penalty charge that was affixed to my windscreen at xxxx car park in xxxxx Street this morning at 11:47am. Serial number xxxxxxxx

The attendant claims on the form that my vehicle was sited there at 9:30am and so by 11:47am I had been parked there over the 2 hour limit.

In actual fact, at 9:30am this morning, I was just coming up the slip road of junction X of the M1 having been held up in traffic. I finally arrived in xxx at 10:08am for a brief meeting in the building next door, after which I was going to load my car with some shopping to take home at lunchtime. Three people who were at the meeting can testify that I arrived approximately 10 minutes late for that 10am meeting, and the building security cameras will have me entering the building at 10:10am.

I actually saw your attendant issuing the ticket at 11:47am as I was going to the shop, and politely challenged him as to why he was issuing it. His response was that “your car was seen at 9:30am, there’s nothing I can do”. This is a blatant lie, and he could offer no proof whatsoever to back up his claim.

So, in short:

· my car was not there at 9:30am as claimed by your attendant

· It didn’t actually arrive in the car park until 10:08am

· I did not overstay the two hour limit

· I will not be paying the fine.

I hope that you can bring this to a speedy conclusion by admitting your mistake in this instance and revoking the penalty charge.

I realise now that I gave away far more information than was required, and that I could have just ignored the notice. They have responded to my letter by rejecting my appeal and telling me to pay up within 7 days.

Based on the advice on here, I was planning to respond using the wording:

"As I have already explained in my appeal letter, my car was not parked there at the time stated on your charge notice. I am completely innocent of any offence and therefore see your charge as unlawful, unenforceable and I am not liable. I will not be providing any payment and I consider that your continued pursuit of this matter will constitute an offence under the Protection From Harassment Act 1997. I consider the matter closed and am explicitly instructing you not to contact me again for any reason, other than to confirm that the matter is in fact now closed."

 

The company who issued the notice is Vehicle Control Services, at wheel-clamping.co.uk in case that is relevant.

 

Does this sound sensible? Or have I already said something wrong in my appeal letter? And could they pursue this further through the county courts? Their website boasts that "Vehicle Control Services do pursue all unpaid PCN's through to a Court Summons"

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In your case you have admitted to being the driver at the time. However you state that you did not exceed their time limit, but their attendent claims you did. If they go as far as taking you to county court for this you have witnesses who can testify to that. Your response to their "appeal" states your position clearly. Let them do the chasing from now on.

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Just to add to the OP's & Rob's comments.....

 

If this ever does come to County Court as a civil debt, as the OP has admitted to being the driver purported to be entering into said contract, the OP already has and has submitted more than sufficient evidence to the contrary that the "contravention" did not occur, and that the claimant is a vexacious litigant...

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