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    • The Contract itself The airport is actually owned by the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan. There should be an authority from them for Bristol airport group  to sign on their behalf. Without it the contract is invalid. The contract has so many  clauses redacted that it is questionable as to its fairness with regard to the Defendants ability to receive a fair trial. In the case of WH Holding Ltd, West Ham United Football Club Ltd -v- E20 Stadium LLP [2018],  In reaching its decision, the Court gave a clear warning to parties involved in litigation: ‘given the difficulties and suspicions to which extensive redaction inevitably gives rise, parties who decide to adopt such an appropriate in disclosure must take enhanced care to ensure that such redactions are accurately made, and must be prepared to suffer costs consequences if they are not’. The contract is also invalid as the signatories are required to have their signatures cosigned by independent witnesses. There is obviously a question of the date of the signatures not being signed until 16 days after the start of the contract. There is a question too about the photographs. They are supposed to be contemporaneous not taken several months before when the signage may have been different or have moved or damaged since then. The DEfendant respectfully asks the Court therefore to treat the contract as invalid or void. With no contract there can be no breach. Indeed even were the contract regarded as valid there would be no breach It is hard to understand why this case was brought to Court as there appears to be no reasonable cause to apply to the DVLA.............
    • Danny - point taken about the blue paragraphs.  Including them doesn't harm your case in any way.  It makes no odds.  It's just that over the years we've had judges often remarking on how concise & clear Caggers' WSs have been compared to the Encyclopaedia Britannica-length rubbish that the PPCs send, so I always have a slight preference to cut out anything necessary. Don't send off the WS straight away .. you have plenty of time ... and let's just say that LFI is the Contract King so give him a couple of days to look through it with a fine-tooth comb.
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    • Between yourself and Dave you have produced a very good WS. However if you were to do a harder hitting WS it may be that VCS would be more likely to cancel prior to a hearing. The Contract . VCS [Jake Burgess?] are trying to conflate parking in a car park to driving along a road in order to defend the indefensible. It is well known that "NO Stopping " cannot form a contract as it is prohibitory. VCS know that well as they lose time and again in Court when claiming it is contractual. By mixing up parking with driving they hope to deflect from the fact trying to claim that No Stopping is contractual is tantamount to perjury. No wonder mr Burgess doesn't want to appear in Court. Conflation also disguises the fact that while parking in a car park for a period of time can be interpreted as the acceptance of the contract that is not the case while driving down a road. The Defendant was going to the airport so it is ludicrous to suggest that driving by a No Stopping  sign is tacitly accepting  the  contract -especially as no contract is even being offered. And even if a motorist did not wish to be bound by the so called contract what could they do? Forfeit their flight and still have to stop their car to turn around? Put like that the whole scenario posed by Mr Burgess that the Defendant accepted the contract by driving past the sign is absolutely absurd and indefensible. I certainly would not want to appear in Court defending that statement either. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I will do the contract itself later.
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Any examples of No CCA produced Court Wins


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They do not need a court order to enforce the agreement if they comply fully with the S77/78 request, albeit out of time. The offence is for not supplying within 12+30 days. If they do then supply, they can continue to enforce the agreement as it was before the S77/78 request (Civil Law). The criminal offence does still exist however, even though it has been mitigated (Criminal Law).

 

OK, so they offer up the CCA copy (allbeit a **** one) approx 4.5 mths after the initial request...

They then write to me and in the letter it says that they were within thewir rights to ask for payment and add interest...

 

Err, What the hell!!! As far as I see it, WHILST THEY WERE IN DEFAULT I shouldnt have been paying or being requested payment or any interest added. Am I correct???

 

Can someone shed some light on a case/document that outlines this a bit harder? COs theyre on my case BIG time!

Barclays :- Settled March 07:o

 

RBS:- Acct Discharged May 07 :o (chase for more and CRA deletion???):confused:

Barclaycard: - CCA recieved 24/1/07. WOW! :o (GITS!!!) :-|

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Err, What the hell!!! As far as I see it, WHILST THEY WERE IN DEFAULT I shouldnt have been paying or being requested payment or any interest added. Am I correct???

 

Can someone shed some light on a case/document that outlines this a bit harder? COs theyre on my case BIG time!

 

the only thing i could find was that under the OFT guidance (s2.8k) a creditor should halt all action whilst there is a reasonable query in place.

 

this whole "default" thing has been blown up by CAG members and confuses me somewhat.

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Well if you dont think the produced one is genuine then dont pay. If you think its sufficient for a court case then let them explain to a judge as to why it took them 4.5 months to produce it if by the very nature of their threatening letters they were leading you to believe that they actually had one. I believe you would get a fairer hearing from a judge. You have to way things up, eg is the debt worth their while, will their alleged document satisfy the Rules of Evidence. What will the judge do regarding the summary offence they have committed by not producing within the calendar month. Will he fine them more than the interest they are trying to extort from you? If you go down the court route there are plenty of very wise folk on here who will help you and make sure that the DCA have dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's. They usually rely on people rolling over once they mention COURT:eek:

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Well if you dont think the produced one is genuine then dont pay. If you think its sufficient for a court case then let them explain to a judge as to why it took them 4.5 months to produce it if by the very nature of their threatening letters they were leading you to believe that they actually had one. I believe you would get a fairer hearing from a judge. You have to way things up, eg is the debt worth their while, will their alleged document satisfy the Rules of Evidence. What will the judge do regarding the summary offence they have committed by not producing within the calendar month. Will he fine them more than the interest they are trying to extort from you? If you go down the court route there are plenty of very wise folk on here who will help you and make sure that the DCA have dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's. They usually rely on people rolling over once they mention COURT:eek:

 

Understood.

 

s.77 [4]"if a creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection [1]

a] he is not entitled to, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

and

b] if the default continues for one month he commits an offence."

 

Yes, I am aware of these, but WHERE does it actualyl say the words, 'no interest, no DCAs, no requests for payment etc (rather than just 'the agreement is unenforceable)

 

I want to button it down in the letter I intend to send them this week...

 

I am at this time creating a new thread with all the details and it will hopefully become clearer what Im getting at...

Barclays :- Settled March 07:o

 

RBS:- Acct Discharged May 07 :o (chase for more and CRA deletion???):confused:

Barclaycard: - CCA recieved 24/1/07. WOW! :o (GITS!!!) :-|

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It doesn't fully skint. The bits to focus on are "not entitled" .... "to enforce"

 

On what basis do they add interest - it is in the agreement.

On what basis do they chase payment - it is in the agreement.

The DCA is merely also chasing payment as the line above.

 

There are some excellent letters on Zubo's thread below, as you work your way through the thread the letters get "stronger" you might find one that says what you want

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/79147-consumer-credit-act-resources.html

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OK. How about this.

 

They admit they have omitted to send the documents. Can they continue as normal once they have sent a copy of the CCA.

 

I have read on the board that they have to get permission from a court to enforce once they have defaulted (which they did Thur/Fri)

 

The debt is only unenforceable whilst the default reamins - once they supply the docs the debt is enforceable, and no permission is needed.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/83035-guidelines-requests-original-agreement.html#post742396

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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The debt is only unenforceable whilst the default reamins - once they supply the docs the debt is enforceable, and no permission is needed.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/83035-guidelines-requests-original-agreement.html#post742396

 

Provided of course the documents are a true and legal copy of an Executed CCA agreement and contain all the prescribed terms and conditions

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s.77 [4]"if a creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection [1]

a] he is not entitled to, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

and

b] if the default continues for one month he commits an offence."

 

so the default is only if no agreement is furnished. so the actually act of sending the cca request doesn't put the account into default itself..

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I totally agree with that Sequenci, though it would seem to be skating on

thin ice to continue enforcement if there is a doubt that the documents can be supplied within the specified time.

 

Though Fullyskinted did say that he had waited for five months for his

agreement to turn up.

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I totally agree with that Sequenci, though it would seem to be skating on

thin ice to continue enforcement if there is a doubt that the documents can be supplied within the specified time.

 

Though Fullyskinted did say that he had waited for five months for his

agreement to turn up.

It shows how desperate the DCAs have become that they spent 5 months trying to locate a document that they paid a pittance for. Are we sure that after such a long time it actually is the genuine article.

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Going back to the original question, there are no real cases apart from the redoubtable Mrs Wilson. I did help another user The Phantom on this thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/48764-being-taken-court-joint.html

From memory the creditor(s) withdrew from action as they could not find the agreement. Have a read and see what you can find out

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Would I be right in thinking that if they do not have a properly executed CCA then:

 

1. They will try everything they can to deny this.

2. Try to bully you into making payments.

3. Initiate court action to show they mean business.

4. Threaten large costs awards

4. Pull out and settle at the last moment.

 

Or am I just dreaming :D

 

Maybe the thread should have been entitled "Any example of No CCA produced Court Losses"

 

From what I have read this does not work if there is already a CCJ. But otherwise????

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Would I be right in thinking that if they do not have a properly executed CCA then:

 

1. They will try everything they can to deny this. YES

2. Try to bully you into making payments. Most Definately YES

3. Initiate court action to show they mean business. NO They will threaten but will not waste the money sending REAL court papers out. The most Probably will send Official Looking Papers:rolleyes:

4. Threaten large costs awards They always do and lead you to believe they will win the case and send the boys round, get an attachment of your earnings, make you sell your house:shock:

4. Pull out and settle at the last moment. Fold at the last moment when they realise they cannot produce. Dont blink before them

 

Or am I just dreaming :D

 

Maybe the thread should have been entitled "Any example of No CCA produced Court Losses"

 

From what I have read this does not work if there is already a CCJ. But otherwise????

 

:D :D

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Hello, sorry to jump in. I have been reading this thread for information relating to court issues for the recovery of a debt. and the failure of the supply of a improper excuted agreement. re application form against credit agreement.

 

I am looking as I need to send my defence to the court quite soon. and I am floundering a bit.

 

Could some of you most learned cags have a look at my thread and advise me please

 

subscribed.gifrevenge is sweet-v-hfc

 

Again sorry for the hijack, but I am getting really confused and I only have one chance at this.

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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I could do with some advice on my thread too, have got mixed opinions about whether the application form MBNA have sent me can be enforced... thanx

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/77464-pudsters14-mbna.html

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