Pen-V-Abbey

[Pen]

Hi, can anyone help.

I am trying to claim back my chargers from the abbey mortgage account. I am just over 1 month in a arrears which has been going on for quite some time.

I had an agreement with the abbey to pay a set amount each month which I had been doing however Abbey still took me to court for repossession, which we fought and won how ever we had to go to court on at least 6 occasions because each time the barrister for abbey would turn up without some important piece of information so the case was always adjourned. yet each time it was adjourned due to their not supplying correct info I have had to pay their lit costs which have amounted to more them the one month arrears we owed. in the end the judge directed that we pay at set amount each month to cover the arrears which we have done religiously yet abbey are once again taking us to court for repossession. despite us keeping to the courts directions. what Abbey are saying is that due to interest rises we are not paying enough to the arrears yet we have increased this payment ourselves anyway to take into account these increases. so why should I have to keep paying their Lit fees whenever they decide to take proceedings instead of contacting us direct to sort out.

Also I have just received all my statements and the chargers alone are more then the arrears we owe. what can we claim back from them. as well as letter chargers + other chargers there are a lot of SOL chargers and Lit chargers can I reclaim any of these and what should i say in court next month. I am now worried about defending my case in case it gets adjourned yet again and i have to pay for it. it does seem so unfair.

can anyone advice me please.

Pen

[tonycee]

I dont believe Abbey or anybody can alter a court decision, I.E .payment ,without going back to court for a decision first. I dont want to give false hope as im no expert, what i would do however is ask the judge for directions as i dont see how you can possibly be financially liable for their mistakes....

In the meantime start your own claim for unlawful charges..Good luck..

[Pen]

Hi Tony

thanks for that. do you think I can reclaim all the LIT fee s as well as i realy do think it is unfair that we should have to pay because they keep attending court without the correct paper work, I am goning to have to defend this current action but unsure how we will be able to afford it if I have to pay their costs each time they are in the wrong.

[tonycee]

Put all your fears and concerns in writing and send it to Abbey ASAP...If you have to

go back to court, ask the judge if you can continue with the original judgement to pay off arrears, if you have kept up payment there will be no probs.. Again ask judge for directions...Abbey will add these charges on to the end of your mortgage and you will be paying interest for rest of term...But you do have time to sort it..Just stand up if front of the big scarey judge ( who is just human like you and i ) and shout WHY

Send Abbey a SAR with £10 immediately.

I think once you make them realise that they are trying to break the terms of a COURT judgement they will back down.....

Try not to worry, they dont actually want your house, they want your money over 25 years..

[Pen]

hi tony.

I have recieved some of my SAR details from Abbey, all they have sent me is a sheet of statements so I have wrote requesting all the rest. I am worried about these Lit costs and solicitors fees as you are right they are added to the mortage, I can not understand how they can get away doing that since the interest at the end of the term would be horrendous. there is about £3.000 in lit costs and £100.00 in Solicitors fees as well as returned DDs can I claim the lit costs back or are they ligite

[mrsfoot]

Hi Pen

 

Let them take you back to court. Then present your case to the Judge with regards to costs. I would put it together something along these lines:

 

"Your Honour as you are aware from the paperwork you have there have been 6 occasions where the Claimant (abbey) have brought me to court for a repossession hearing. At each hearing the Barrister attending had forgotten to bring "important" documentation,l eaving the hearing to be adjourned. However it has been brought to my attention that they have applied litigation fees for all 6 hearings. I would like to contest the application of these charges. The reason I contest them are it was not my fault the barrister did not bring the correct paperwork yet I am the one being penalised with added charges.

I put it to you that due to the Barristers errors I have now ltitgation fees of £3000 plus further costs today.

With regards to todays costs I also ask for them not to be applied. I have complied with the order dated xx/xx/200x in which I had to pay £xx on top of the mortgage payments. I have the evidence to show this has been complied with on my part (make sure you take copies for the Judge and Barrister, ideally it shoud be a mortgage statement or bank statements to show all the payments) yet we are here again because Abbey do not want to comply with the order dated xx/xx/200x and want more money, een though my payments have been increased to cover the interest rise of xx/xx/200x"

 

Be prepared with all paperwork in correct order and enough for you, Judge and Abbey. Dont let the Barrister talk you out of bringing it up to the Judge.

 

Good luck

[tonycee]

Well said mrsfoot....

 

Go kick their butt Pen...

[Pen]

Great, this will show that the arrears I have are only ones conected with litigation fees, if that makes sence, ie I still owe £1,O00 yet if the refunded all the Lit fees then they would owe me money.

 

Thanks both of you. I am in court on the 18th july so I will keep you informed.

 

Pen

[Pen]

Hi tony and mrs Foot,

 

Just a quick update, The court hearing was for the 18th July 2007. at the same time, I had a court hearing for reclaiming my bank chargers same date different court, however since my bank chargers claim was for £12K around-about in total, I thought it more important to attend that one, thinking If I won I could pay the arrears and that would be that.

 

So I wrote to the court and Abbey outlining the issues kindley raised by Mrsfoot, I enclosed the copy of the court hearing for BC and copiers of letters I had sent to Abbey requesting my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) details.

 

I won my bank chargers claim, the bank have 14 days to repay me so I can now pay the arrears. I am just waiting a reply from the courts in to what has been decided I hope the don't punish me for attending the final hearing for my bank chargers as I am concerned they judge might think that I have my priorities wrong and the mortgage is more important therefor I should have attended that one instead.

 

I have also received all my SAR details from Abbey and I'm not too sure what I can reclaim. I know I cannot reclaim solicitors fees but does this apply to in house litigation fees as well and will I incur more fees just by reclaiming them ie will I have to repay the solicitors fees involved with reclaiming chargers.

 

I must say it is not as straightforward claiming mortgage fees as it is bank chargers:D :D so please, any help and guidance you can give me would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Pen

[tonycee]

FANTASTIC Congratulations........

Im really pleased for you...

Dont know to much about mortgage charges, but this link might help...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgage-companies/2424-alanfromderby-bristol-west-operation.html

 

Its a long read but full of useful info.......

 

YEAH>>>WAY TO GO. :-D :-D :-D

[Pen]

Thanks Tony,

 

It did feel good winning all my chargers plus Compound Interest:D I could not have done it without the enormous help and support from the Lloyd's gang.

 

So I can now pay off these arrears but!! I am not going to let Abbey off for all the grief they have put us through, I am going afterr them now and want to reclaim every penny they have taken from us in chargers.

 

I will let you know what response I get from the court when i get it.

 

 

Thanks Again for your help

Pen

[mrsfoot]

Congratulations Pen, I am so happy that you won your claim. You really deserve some luck.

 

When the letter arrives read it carefully and if in doubt over anything please feel free to contact me and Ill help as much as I can

 

Well done again, hope a small amount of your claim is being donated to this wonderful site. Oh and dont just disappear, you are a winner now and can help others with your expertise and experience..see you around!

[Pen]

Hi Mrs Foot, Thank you.

yes I have made a donation and it was a pleasure doing so believe me, Lloyd's team had put in so much work helping me and still as I have a disposal hearing to attend, would you happen to know anything about these hearing's by the way??? I was judgement for SAR and the award was to be decided at a disposal hearing last month but when I attended the judge did not have a clue so set another hearing for 45mins she has ask me to estimate all my losses during the 29 years I was with the bank, I'm am confused about this as the hearing is only in the small claims track therefor what it the point of the estimation unless she wants to change track. confusing or what:D :D But if you do have any experience of them I would appreciate hearing about it

 

thanks again for your help

 

Pen x

[mrsfoot]

Hi Pen

 

I have looked for Disposal hearings and got this information. I take this is for them not complying with SAR. If it is not then I apologise for mis reading and ask you to tell me why the disposal hearing has came about.

 

Anyway

The disposal hearing is set for the Judge to make directions. These can be:

 

To order more details or documents in order to help the Judge make a final decision

or

Decide how much the Defendant has to pay you.

 

The Judge will decide on which of the directions above to take using the following guidleines:

1.The amount being claimed

2.Whether the Defendant is likely to dispute the amount claimed

3.Whether the Judge feel there is sufficient proof in the paperwork to make a decision.

 

However it is unlikely for the Judge to make a final decision unless the amount you are claiming has been sent to theDefendant at least 3 days prior to the hearing. So I would suggest you send (by recorded delivery) the total amount you are claiming for the 29 years you were with the bank and show that evidene of delivery to the judge.

Do this estimation by trying to find out how much was taken in charges in any given year then multiply by 29.

If in the mean time you get the statements you then have the evidence.

 

In my opinion the Judge has done this disposal hearing to push the bank along. They will have received the same notice as you. They will now be looking at paying out 29 years of money due to them not complying with SAR. You will probably find that they will contact you with the amount opwed and make a payment before the hearing.

Whether you take it or try your luck with the disposal hearing will be your decision.

 

Hope this helps. If you have any queries please feel free to ask

[Pen]

Hi Mrs Foot,

yes, that was the impression i got at the directions hearing, which would make sense.

 

The problem I have with it is this. When I filed my N1 and POC I left the amount to be awarded for the judge to decide but started it would be under £5,000 as it had to have some monetary value so the case was allocated to the small hearing. I was fine with that and at the hearing I attended I just presumed the judge would make a award under this amount.

However she didn't and she knew about my case for claiming bank chargers that's why she changed the Disposal hearing to a directions in order for me to estimate my whole losses over 29 years. She said hopefully the bank will have supplied me with my information before the final directions hearing, I asked what happends if they don't and she said if they don't i will get what I am asking for.

 

If I do this and based on the claim I have just won for 13.5K for 5 years I estimated my claim would be in excess of £50,000 she is unlikely to award that in the small claims track, but I have read that at a directions hearing the judge can change the track.

 

The bank have just paid me a total of 13K in court. they cannot supply me with my information, so based on that award I could estimate my chargers for the whole of the 29 yrs, I am unsure as to how the banks could disagree with this estimation. If the Judge changers the track I could be liable for chargers, what a dilemma

[mrsfoot]

Hi Mrs Foot,

yes, that was the impression i got at the directions hearing, which would make sense.

 

The problem I have with it is this. When I filed my N1 and POC I left the amount to be awarded for the judge to decide but started it would be under £5,000 as it had to have some monetary value so the case was allocated to the small hearing. I was fine with that and at the hearing I attended I just presumed the judge would make a award under this amount.

However she didn't and she knew about my case for claiming bank chargers that's why she changed the Disposal hearing to a directions in order for me to estimate my whole losses over 29 years. She said hopefully the bank will have supplied me with my information before the final directions hearing, I asked what happends if they don't and she said if they don't i will get what I am asking for. Is this on the directions she made? Did she say it out loud? If she did I would suggest writing to the court it was heard at and apply for a transcript of the hearing. It can csot between £30-£200 but it maight be worth it if you have to argue what she has said.

 

If I do this and based on the claim I have just won for 13.5K for 5 years I estimated my claim would be in excess of £50,000 she is unlikely to award that in the small claims track, but I have read that at a directions hearing the judge can change the track. She can change the track. Just remember costs are liable in ALL cases although in the small claims it is highly unlikely. The costs at fast track are limited to £500 max with an extra £250 for the use of a solicitor. So the most you would have to pay if you lost your case would be £750 in fast track. In multi track ths costs are unlimited. However dont forget you usually only pay costs if you lose the case, or they have an indemnity clause in the contract you had with them (see mortgage forum for more on that, I think its in the stickies)

 

The bank have just paid me a total of 13K in court. they cannot supply me with my information, so based on that award I could estimate my chargers for the whole of the 29 yrs, I am unsure as to how the banks could disagree with this estimation. If the Judge changers the track I could be liable for chargers, what a dilemma

 

Why cant the send you your information?

I want you to have a look at this link http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/fastmulti/index.htm

This will give you a better insight into the fast and multi track system for you to be able to make an informed decision.

Personally I would estimate on the orders of the Judge, however dont forget it it always down to the Claimant to prove the charges were applied. But it does seem you have the Judge on your side!!

[Pen]

Urgent Help needed please.

As you all know. I wrote to the judge asking for a new hearing date as I was already in court for a disposal hearing.

today I recieved this letter from the court.

 

the court Orders that.

1. The defendant give the claimant possion of blar blar blar. on or before 15th Aug 2007

 

2. the defendant pay the claimant £117586,25 for outstanding balance, not to be enforced without leave of the court pending disposal of the property

 

3. the claimants costs will be added to the amount owing.

 

Wow where has all this come from.

 

I wrote to the court stating that I had stuck to all the courts directions. I sent recipts etc I also wrote staing I wanted to defend the case and asked for a new hearing then this letter comes out of the blue

 

what can I do now.

[tonycee]

The court hearing was for the 18th July 2007. at the same time, I had a court hearing for reclaiming my bank chargers same date different court, however since my bank chargers claim was for £12K around-about in total, I thought it more important to attend that one, thinking If I won I could pay the arrears and that would be that.

 

Pen..

It looks like this might have back fired on you. I trust by now you have paid off all of the arrears.

You need to be in court 10am Monday and ask for an emergency hearing.

Take all docs with you. Im sure if you can actually speak to a judge, you can get orders suspended. Im sure you will be ok..

[Pen]

Tony. no I have not paid them yet. I can on monday. will they really ask me to leave on the 16th I am really worried now. I did not think the judge would hear this case as i had wrote asking for a new date so I could defend it. I have not done anything wrong. I have complied with all the directions as far as I was concerned all abbey wanted was to increase the payments in line with the interest increase but we had done that ourselfs anyway so there was no need for them to go back to court which was my argument in the first place.

[tonycee]

Pen.

Im really sorry but as it stands at the moment YES, but all is not lost, you MUST deal with this NOW.

Get to court, take all documentation with you, and talk to the judge.

This is also getting way above my experience so i dont want to mislead you.

I can only comment on my own expriences when in a similar situation..

Please get some proper legal advice ASAP..

Im here if you need me, but im not what you need right now. You need to call in " The A team"

Again, from my own expeience, its not to late as such, but if you dont deal with it, it very quickly will be.

Fingers and toes crossed for you.

[Pen]

Thanks tony.

roll on tomorrow then! I have had a **** weekend

[tonycee]

I have had a **** weekend

 

Cant eat, cant sleep, sweating, pulpatations, feel sick,

Yes, yes ,yes. Got the tee shirt, but all worked out in the end.

 

I think with all thats going on in the world of banking/court claims, your request might have been " lost in the system " as such.

No consolation i know, but you have a very good case.

As you were not at the last appearence, and they were, who knows what evidence the judge had to support your request ?

 

You WILL be OK.

[tonycee]

Pen.

I found this and hope it helps.

Page 8 may be relevant..... Chin up.

 

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/pdf/self_help_pack/mortgage_arrears.pdf

[tonycee]

You can fill in and download the form here. It might save you a bit of time and help you sleep tonight..

 

Her Majesty's Courts Service - Home

[Pen]

HI tony.

 

what a horrid week end i have had.

 

called the Abbey this morning and paid all the arrears. Told them how annoyed I was with their actions, they are going to get the possession order removed however I don't trust them one bit so I am going to now apply to the courts to get the order either struck out or set aside what one do you think.

whilst I was on the phone i also asked for a breakdown of all the litagation fees that they have put on my account, what good this is to me i don't know but i asked anyway.

she said they did not want a possession order just something writtern down in court agreeing to pay a set amount each month towards the arrears but since I was not in court they had no alternitive but to seek the order, yer I bet.

 

Funny enough when i told her that i have been complying with the courts directions of paying the mortage plus a set amount of arears on the 23rd of every month she turned round and said no! it was only the arrears I was allowed to pay on the 23rd the mortage still needed to be payed on the 18th. thats not what the judge wrote.

 

thank god I won my chargers back and was in a posistion to pay them in full eh.

 

Thanks for your quick and prompt help as always.

 

pen.

 

PS unable to click your scales, I tried and it said i must spread them around before giving you one, what sort of girl do they think i am:D :D