Just received acknowledgement

[katies]

I think you're probably right - the latest letter has been delivered via Poplar branch electronically. I've now printed off a copy as it's the best proof of posting I can get, as you say.

 

I've also emailed Dino - he IS quick to reply isn't he! It's Sharon Daboul dealing with my claim - 0208 116 6842, [email protected]

[oneofakind]

None of the letters I've sent have had proof of a REAL signature.

 

Can you imagine signing for a sackful of recorded delivery LBAs every morning ??!!??

 

It's a dirty job, but somebody should be doing it !!

 

:D

[welshcakes]

None of the letters I've sent have had proof of a REAL signature.

 

Can you imagine signing for a sackful of recorded delivery LBAs every morning ??!!??

 

It's a dirty job, but somebody should be doing it !!

 

:D

 

What do you think Santa's elves are doing for the rest of the Year!!! The banks like them as temp staff during busy periods as elves are notorious for;

 

being very cheerful even under duress

prepared to promise anything if it spreads a feel good feeling

do not suffer repetitive strain injury due to naturally high Omega 3 levels

are used to living in a complete fantasy rendering them wanting of telephone and computer skills.

[katies]

I've finally received Barclays defence, it seems fairly standard to me...?

 

1. The Particulars of Claim do not provide details or particulars of the account in question and / or the precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. To the extent it is alleged that the Claimant incurred bank charges on the Claimant's account for unauthorised borrowings whether unpaid fees for returned cheques, 'Paid Referral fees' or any other such fees), the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof of each charge and the date thereof.

 

2. The Particulars of Claim are summary in nature. Accordingly, this defence is summary in nature and the Defendant reserves the right to amend this Statement of Case in due course.

 

3. The Defendant is entitled to charge the Claimant for unauthorised borrowings by reason of its standard terms and conditions. The Claimant accepted the same when the account was opened, including (in particular but without limitation) the following terms and conditions (which are summarised):

a. The Defendant's right to charge a 'Paid Referral Fee' where the Defendant pays an amount (either by compulsion or election) which causes the account to become overdrawn - £30 per item (previously £25).

 

b.The Defendant's right to charge an administrative fee if any cheque, standing order or direct debit cannot be paid because of insufficient cleared funds in the account - £35 per item (previously £30).

 

c. The Defendant's entitlement, if the Claimant becomes overdrawn without an overdraft limit, to charge interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate on the excess balance.

 

4. The Defendant's standard terms and conditions give the Claimant a fair and transparent view of those terms and the charges applicable for unauthorised borrowings (including where the account is overdrawn without an overdraft limit or where the Claimant exceeds the authorised overdraft limit).

 

5. If and to the extent it is the Claimant's case that the failure to make necessary payments and / or failure to remain within authorised overdraft limits and / or failure to arrange an authorised overdraft constituted a breach of the terms applying to the account and that the contractual entitlement to debit charges from the Claimants's account constitutes a liquidated damages clause, the same is denied. The charges constitute payments the Claimant agreed to make by reason of the terms and conditions of the account and were consideration for the Defendant advancing credit to the Claimant, which the Defendant was under no obligation to advance. The Defendant was entitled to impose such charges and interest when the Claimant incurred the overdraft.

 

6. Accordingly, it is denied that the legal principles relating to liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges are relevant or applicable to the facts set out above. Further or alternatively it is denied that any such charges constitute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

 

7. Therefore, it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the account.

 

8. If and to the extent the Claimant incurred charges on the account, this was caused by the Claimant having gone into overdraft without having agreed with the Defendant an authorised overdraft facility or to increase the overdraft facility and / or the failure to make payments to bring the balance of the account back into credit.

 

9. It is averred that the said charges and interest are and remain lawful and enforceable and that the Defendant was entitled to debit the same.

 

10. The Defendant denies that it is liable to the Claimant for the sums claimed and interest as pleaded or at all. In the alternative if (which is denied) the said charges are unenforceable and constituted a breach of contract by the Defendant, those charges which were applied to the account prior to 3 May 2001 are not recoverable because they are time-barred under the terms of the Limitaion Act 1980 in that more than six years have elapsed since the accrual of the cause of action.

 

11. In the alternative, and without prejudice to matters stated above, if (which is denied) the said charges and interest or any part thereof are unlawful or unenforceable as alleged by the Claimant or at all, and the charges were a consequence of the breach of contract by the Claimant, the Defendant has nonetheless suffered loss and damage as a conseqence of such breach of contract in allowing the account to go into unauthorised overdraft. Accordingly, in the event that the Defendant is unable to rely on its express entitlement to enforce the charges as set out above, it will seek to recover to the extent necessary such loss and damage as it actually suffered, which will not necessarily be limited to the value of the said charges, and the Defendant seeks to set off such sums against any liability owed hereunder to the Claimant.

Barclays Bank PLC

 

 

So, do I now need to send off an updated POC?

 

Have other people's defences mentioned the actual charges made?

 

Also, where do I bring into my reasoning that we did request that our overdraft was temporarily extended (for reasons no one could question) to be told by the bank manager that he would do what he could but 'the computer' would not allow him to increase our overdraft...? (Despite my parents offering to act as guarantors.) How much do we use a tragic family event to explain our case? To date it has been purely factual.

[dar£n]

Yep, send in your full POC's

[katies]

By registered post or email now I know Sharon Daboul's dealing with my claim?

[dar£n]

you can use either, because a copy of an email is considered good enough to produce in court as evidence if required.

[tezl]

thought you could not use without predudice in court.

[katies]

Cheers Dar£n! I've got all the letters ready / emailed. I've used your cover letter for the courts too - much better than the one I cobbled together after a couple of glasses of vino!

[katies]

I received a reply email from Sharon tonight thanking me for sending my documents. As we already know from this site, they are inundated with claims at the moment so she will be in contact a couple of weeks before the hearing date once she has assessed the merits of my claim.

 

So, it looks like I'm starting to prepare my court bundle this weekend...

[saintly_1]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/97447-court-bundles-dummies.html?highlight=court+bundle+for+dummies have a look at this .... ive got it bookmarked for when i need it

 

for statement of evidence use the the one at post #34 here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bcard-woolwich-successes/36692-peter-rabbit-barclays-success-2.html

[katies]

Thanks again Saintly, I'll have a look at these. I've been bookmarking things for a few days - I just hope I can find my way through it all (and then understand it!). Me thinks I need to buy some paper and more ink cartridges in the morning!

[katies]

I'm working through my bundle - gulp! We are reclaiming paid referral fees and when we went beyond our overdraft agreement we way exceeded the £25 fee. So, in my statement of evidence, is it better to omit the 'breach of contract' paragraph as I'm not sure I can argue the charge was disproportionate - even if it was as a result of so many charges causing us to go so far overdrawn..?

 

Help!

[oneofakind]

is it better to omit the 'breach of contract' paragraph as I'm not sure I can argue the charge was disproportionate

 

DON'T!!! DON'T!!! DON'T !!!

 

Our whole argument is that their fees are penalties because they are totally disproportionate to the actual losses incurred by the bank.

 

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because you went more than £25 outside your allowed overdraft, that their charges become fair! The cost of dealing with your 'breach of contract' has been generously estimated at £1.50 at most. Why should you pay TWENTY TIMES that amount as a charge!?!? :mad:

[katies]

:o

 

Point taken! Thanks!

 

Just omit an example of us going overdrawn even further then? Or put in the smallest I can find? (£30ish)

[katies]

Done most of my printing out - more thinking needs to be doing and personalising my statement of evidence but my brains' done in now!

 

One question - I haven't got a printout of my MCOL application - is this likely to be a problem?

 

Time for a tipple I think....

[saintly_1]

..

[saintly_1]

Time for a tipple I think....

 

What a good idea ... i might join you

 

Not sure on the mcol application ....

[welshcakes]

One question - I haven't got a printout of my MCOL application - is this likely to be a problem?

 

Do you have Adobe? If not, the MCOL site has a link for you to download it free - you will need it to view your claim. You can go to your online claim at any time and click "view" whereupon a pdf window will open with your exact claim applictaion. You can then print that off.

[dar£n]

DON'T!!! DON'T!!! DON'T !!!

 

Our whole argument is that their fees are penalties because they are totally disproportionate to the actual losses incurred by the bank.

 

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because you went more than £25 outside your allowed overdraft, that their charges become fair! The cost of dealing with your 'breach of contract' has been generously estimated at £1.50 at most. Why should you pay TWENTY TIMES that amount as a charge!?!? :mad:

 

Exactly, the banking code states that banks are NOT allowed to make a profit from charges, they clearly are!

[katies]

Thanks again Saintly, brilliant references. Hope you enjoyed your tipple! I did - and overslept this morning!

Thanks too Welshy - I did it! No mean feat either... One more document into the file!

Not sure I'm up to rewriting anything tonight but hopefully I'm ready for action when I get my date, thanks guys!

[saintly_1]

Our pleasure katies

[katies]

After a very long wait, I'm now looking at my prelim hearing next week (tues). I rang the court to ask what I needed to take with me and the lady there was quite off-hand saying to take 'everything I would be using in evidence'. Is it still advisable to take along my whole bundle? I've forgotten what's in it now!

 

It's all very frustrating - I know it'll be stayed and all the time and effort now is almost pointless. There do seem to be some cases still being settled though...?

 

Any point in contacting litigation team at this stage?

 

All thoughts and advice welcome, thanks!

[slick132]

Hi Katies,

 

You're probably right to expect your case to be stayed, but your effort so far has not been wasted. You are well prepared having your bundle done already.

 

Can you post details of the notice for the hearing next week.

 

I assume you've not sent bundles in to court and bank yet as they've not be called for.

 

No point in contacting BLT - they'll say nothing to assist your case and you can always hope they forget to attend !

 

Take 3 copies of the anti-Stay doc's with you to court. See here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay-updated.html#post1046820

 

Personalise the doc'ts for your circumstances, then print off.

 

Slick

[katies]

Thanks Slick!

 

Felt much that way re BLT - I've been very quiet and hope they've forgotten I'm still waiting for MY MONEY!

 

Bundles haven't been asked for at all which is why they're no further forward than when I started them in July. It looks like I'll need to update my POCs as I submitted on MCOL. Any point in completing and copying them? Also applications for removal of stay x 3 - I can hope!

 

'Notice of Preliminary Hearing

 

Take notice that the PRELIMINARY HEARING will take place on 23 October 2007 at 2.00pm

at Croydon County Court....

When you should attend

14:00 has been allowed for the PRELIMINARY HEARING

Please Note: This case may be released to another judge, possibly at a different Court.

THIS CLAIM IS ALLOCATED TO SMALL CLAIMS TRACK.'

 

No info at all really as to why it's a prelim hearing, but I see that someone else has a similar story with Croydon CC this week.