RW&Co Ltd Settlement Help!

[rory32]

Why did they have to complicate things by saying other parties could still pursue the debt.

Unfortunately because they are probably trying to trick you out of money. Unless you receive a statement from them saying that the 10% would be accepted as a full and final settlement with no strings attached. It won't be a full and final settlement.

[symeon]

Ok thanks again rory and everyone.

 

Looks like I'll have to CCA them.

 

Will keep you posted on developments.

[diskmandave]

You'l find the CCA template here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

Don't forget to include £1 p/o and send by rec/del.

The clock starts ticking the day after delivery.

 

Good luck, Dave

[symeon]

Pleas can someone make me better understand the CCA request process

Am I right on the following?

1) Give 14 days and if not received they cannot request further payments.

2) Give a further 30 days and if not received they have committed an offence.

How do I request this, in separate letters or just one and wait 44 days. – Any sample letters you know of?

After 44 days –

What happens if they send me a CCA after the 44 days?

At 44 days is the debt statute barred or only after a further 6 months or do I need to report the crime in order to get the debt statute barred.

Am I right that statute barred means the debt can no longer be enforced and should be cleared from my records?

Please could someone explain this a little better especially what happens after 44 days.

 

Thanks again

[symeon]

You'l find the CCA template here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

Don't forget to include £1 p/o and send by rec/del.

The clock starts ticking the day after delivery.

 

Good luck, Dave

 

Thanks Dave, part of my question answered - must of clicked submit at same time..

[rory32]

Pleas can someone make me better understand the CCA request process

Am I right on the following?

1) Give 14 days and if not received they cannot request further payments

Yes after 14 working days

2) Give a further 30 days and if not received they have committed an offence.

Yes

How do I request this, in separate letters or just one and wait 44 days. – Any sample letters you know of?

All you have to request is the CCA.

After 44 days –

What happens if they send me a CCA after the 44 days?

I have pasted the OFT response to failing to provide agreements at the bottom of this post.

At 44 days is the dept statute barred or only after a further 6 months or do I need to report the crime in order to get the debt statute barred.

The offence has nothing to do with the debt being statute barred. It is the offence that would be statute barred from prosecution after 6 months. The debt is only statute barred after 6 years of non payment and not making any offers on the debt.

Am I right that statute barred means the dept can no longer be enforced and should be cleared from my records?

Irrelevant - it is the offence I was refering to, not the debt. Sorry for not being clear on that.

Please could someone explain this a little better especially what happens after 44 days.

After 44 days I would ask them to reconsider their position on the debt and perhaps write it off as it is no longer enforceable before I report them to Trading Standards.

OFT response to failing to provide agreement:

 

For your information, the general effects of sections 77-79 requires the creditor/owner

(in the case of a hire agreement) under an agreement for (fixed-sum credit, running

account credit and hire agreement) to provide the debtor/hirer with a copy of the executed

agreement and a statement of account on request.

 

If a creditor/owner fails to comply with a valid request within a period of 12 days

(not including the date of receipt of the request) he may not enforce the agreement at all.

This prevents enforcement with or without a court order. If a default lasts for a month

(for example a calendar month) it constitutes an offence. We understand your concerns in

this matter but please do remember however that once the creditor/owner complies with

the request albeit out of time, he may once again enforce the agreement.

 

A ‘true copy’ of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement

and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor do

not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total sum paid under the

agreement by the debtor; the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but

remains unpaid; and the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor

(the latter two must include the various amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when

each is/was due). However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points,

but it cannot be a conjectured reconstruction. If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have

difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody

would know what was in the original. When the trader comes to enforce the debt in court, he needs

to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently he cannot

otherwise.

 

In the absence of a copy of the original agreement someone's liability for a debt can only lead to

further query. However in circumstances like this we would view it is as unfair practice under

section 25(2) (d) of the Act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and/or

provide details as appropriate when a debt

[rory32]

How do I request this, in separate letters or just one and wait 44 days. – Any sample letters you know of?

All you have to request is the CCA.

Dave has provided the link.

[symeon]

Thanks rory,

 

I am a little clearer but still unclear on the 44 day bit.

 

So after 44 days a crime has been committed only for the CCA not being supplied in time, however if the CCA is suddenly found the debt can then be requested again. If this is the case surely a company would still not write the debt off incase the CCA turns up.

 

Really sorry if I am sounding thick, but this law stuff really is a foreign language to me...

[diskmandave]

Don't fret! We all started at the bottom at some point...

 

First of all, alter this letter to suit your needs.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

Obviously, print it etc... Send by first class recorded delivery and make sure to enclose the p/o for £1.

 

Keep a check on when it's delivered and print the delivery proof from Royal Mail tracking website.

 

The initial 12 working days begins the day after delivery, if they don't supply the document within that time your request is in default, see Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

http://www.crw.gov.uk/resources/consumercreditact1974.pdf

After a further calender month, which is 31 days if the last day falls on a Sunday or Bank Holiday, 30 if not, if no documents are supplied an offence is committed. Whilst in default no action can be taken, court or otherwise.

 

This is the bottom line...

S.78

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)--

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Is that any clearer?

 

Regards, Dave.

[rory32]

The debt can be re-enforced if they could find a copy of the credit agreement that conforms to The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (but most credit agreements issued don't conform). They would then need to obtain a court order to enforce the debt but they would need to explain why they were not able to meet their legal obligations under the Act of supplying you with a copy of the agreement. Plus if they went to court there would be the issue of disclosure which would in all probability result in the court claim being thrown out.

 

Please be aware that these companies have systems in place to store data (in particular copies of credit agreements) if they do not find it within 12 working days they are unlikely to ever find it. They are very aware of this.

 

They are also aware that to not keep a copy of the credit agreement for up to 6 years after closure of an account is against the guidelines set in the FSA Handbook and, more importantly, in contravention of anti money laundering legislation. This is more important as it can result in someone going to jail. Also this offence is not statute barred.

[symeon]

Thanks Rory and Dave, certainly clearer

 

So after the 44 days the debt can be re-enforced but only after a court order is issued.

 

Plus if they went to court there would be the issue of disclosure which would in all probability result in the court claim being thrown out.

 

what exactly is this?

 

sum it up - after 44 days 99% of the time you can consider the debt to be wrote off?

[symeon]

:) rory32 - Congragtulations on 1000 posts

 

thanks for your help

[rory32]

They would have to explain why they have come to court seeking to re-enforce a credit agreement that they have withheld from you (they are legally required to disclose the copy of the agreement when you send them a CCA request).

 

sum it up - after 44 days 99% of the time you can consider the debt to be wrote off?

 

No. They may agree to write it off they may not. In all probability they will. The alternative is you pay them nothing for 6 years and then the debt becomes statute barred. Once a debt becomes statute barred it is your choice whether you pay it or not. Obviously your choice will be to not pay it.

 

Law relating to debts: statute-barred debts

If a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred.

 

Under the Limitations Act 1980 the time limits are

• in simple contracts, 6 years (this is your type of contract)
  
• in contracts under seal, 12 years.

If the debtor acknowledges the debt in writing or makes a part payment within the original limitation period, then the time limits start to run again from the date of acknowledgement or the date of payment.

 

Even though the lender may be barred from pursuing recovery, a debtor may decide to pay the debt after the expiry of the time limits. Because of this you should allow a debt which is otherwise statute-barred if the personal representatives pay the debt and you receive evidence that the payment has been made.

 

The above instructions do not apply to debts in Scotland. Under Scottish law, if a lender allows time to pass without receiving any payment an action for recovery may become barred under the Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973. (For details of this Act see Gloag and Henderson 10th edition at Chapter 15.). These debts are completely extinguished and cannot be enforced. Once the prescriptive period expires the debt cannot be allowed as a deduction.

[symeon]

thanks rory

 

I know I am jumping the gun, but in 44 days what sort of letter should I write in order to request the debt to be written off? Any templates for this?

 

Also the reason I ask is I have another debt which is only a week from defaulting. (44 days) The below is the current state of this one

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/90006-bryan-carter-help-3.html#post849618

 

thanks

[rory32]

I'll have a look as I need to use one for RBofS.

 

They have just told me that they are unable to provide a copy of the agreement but (wait for it) "The fact that it has become over the years mislaid (so not lost then?) somewhere in our systems does not mean that it does not exist."

[symeon]

Hi ev1,

 

RW received my CCA request yesterday. Will keep you posted with any developments.

 

Symeon.

[symeon]

Hi again,

 

I have been doing some calculations as to when I should receive the requested info.

 

Here goes:

 

 

RW&Co received CCA request 14/06.

 

12 working days from 14/06 takes me to 29/06.

 

29/06 is the last date I expect to receive info.

 

1 month after 29/06 takes me to 27/07 (if I am correct).

 

If info hasn't been sent by 27/07 then an offence has been commited by RW&Co, and I am assuming that they can no longer enforce the debt.

 

 

If I have got it wrong, please feel free to correct me as I am only just getting to grips with these procedures.

 

 

Thanx.

 

Symeon.

[rory32]

1 month after 29/06 takes me to 27/07

It would actually be 30/07.

[symeon]

It would actually be 30/07.

 

 

Thanx for that Rory, I never was any good at maths.

 

Symeon.

[symeon]

Hi again,

 

Just thought I'de let you know I haven't heard anything from RW regarding my CCA request or anything else.

 

Not quite sure what happens at this stage....

 

If RW don't provide the info by 30/07 (1 month from the date I was supposed to receive CCA), does this then mean RW cannot enforce this debt?

 

I was due to pay an instalment by 16/07 however I take it this is now cancelled out due to RW failing to provide CCA.

 

 

Thanx in Advance,

 

Symeon.

[Curlyben]

Yep once they pass the first deadline then you can HAPPILY stop payments, so time to call your bank and make sure that's happened.

After the second deadline the they have to take you to court if they want to enforce it.

[symeon]

After the second deadline the they have to take you to court if they want to enforce it.

 

 

 

Thanx for that Curlyben.

 

With regards to your post above, do you think it would be likely RW would take this to court IF they fail to supply the CCA within the time frame?

 

The reason I ask is if they fail to produce the CCA then could we assume they don't have it therefore taking me to court would be pointless as they cannot prove the debt exists?

 

Also (fingers crossed), if RW don't produce the CCA, can they then sell the debt on to another DCA?

 

Sorry for all the Q's....

 

 

Thanx Again,

 

Symeon.

[Curlyben]

Basically NO CCA = No Debt.

 

Now that is very basic as the debt DOES exist, but they cannot enforce it.

They would be extremely foolhardy if they tried legal act without a correct CCA, as this is a relatively easy defence.

 

They could well sell it onto another DCA, not unheard of, but they would be breaking OFT guidelines if they do.

[symeon]

Thanx Again for your help CB.

 

 

I forgot to ask in my previous post....

 

What happens if they do produce the CCA?

 

 

Thanx,

 

Symeon.

[symeon]

 

I forgot to ask in my previous post....

 

What happens if they do produce the CCA?

 

 

Thanx,

 

Symeon.

 

 

 

 

Anyone???