DCA, Legal Action, son needs help!

[joanneclaire]

Hi,

I am looking for some advice so I can help my son who at 20yrs has dug a big hole for himself and is struggling to get out. Im so worried about his mental health at present, i hope with a little help I can help him lighten things a little.

 

Basically he obtained a loan for £3000 from the AA over a year ago. I didnt realise at the time as I didnt get involved but he also added on the PPI (which I think has been misold anyway)

 

to cut a long story short he fell into difficulty just prior to christmas 06 where he couldnt meet payments ect.

 

AA have since transferred the account to J & J Collections a debt collection agency. I sent an email (from my son) to the debt collection ageny on 23 April and also followed up with the same letter by recorded delivery basically detailing the circumstances and offering to pay £20 per week off the debt - which is now £4055.78!

 

My son cannot set up DD with the bank, so we requested payment slips / book so we could commence paying the amount should they agree.

 

We received a letter dated 26 April from J&J stating that:-

 

we confirm that due to non payment we have agreed with our clients to refer your account for Legal Action. Your account details are currently been transferred to Blair, Oliver and Scott (solicitors??) who will contact you in due course.

 

Now, I am at a loss really what to do, I have read and read about DCA to try to get an idea where to start?

 

Do I send the DCA a CCA request? or do I send it to the AA who originally set up the loan?

 

should I send a DPA to the AA as I know there have been charges on the account?

 

As we have already sent a letter and email to the DCA asking them to accept our proposed payment plan, this acknowledges the loan therefore can we still send the CCA?

 

Im assuming that shortly we will be receiving a letter with regards to the legal action?

 

any advice is gratefully received, thanks

[gemspan]

HI there

 

First of all, dont worry. Blair Oliver & Scott are just debt collectors so I cant understand why this has been passed to them from another debt collector!!! Anyway, you will find that they will let you pay what you can pay towards the loan. Once they know the circumstances surrounding the debt I think they will look at your case sympathetically.

 

Regarding the CCA. You could send off for a copy of the agreement and see what they come up with. You would send this to the AA - being the original creditor. They have not sold the debt, they have merely passed it to a DCA to collect for them. Also, the AA should be informed that J&J are passing your details from pillar to post which is a contravention of the Data Protection Act. You want to know if the AA are happy that your personal details are "doing the circuit" - so to speak.

 

Dont worry. You will be able to sort this out. At the end of the day you cannot be taken to jail for not paying a debt. I understand that this is very frightening as I have been there and experienced what you are going through, but you will sort something out and everything will be OK.

 

Please let us know how you get on.

 

Take care

Kind regards

Gemspan

[rory32]

I would send the CCA request to the AA a they are the original creditor. Don't worry about the proposed payment plan to the DCA as you were not aware of your legal rights at the time. If they send you a letter with regards to legal action inform them the account is in dispute and report them to the OFT and Trading Standards.

I would also send the AA a SAR to see what charges are on the account. I would also ask the DCA for a statement of account as they are not allowed to add their charges to the original debt.

[joanneclaire]

thank you so much for your quick replies,

 

I thought that Blair, Oliver ect were solicitors!

 

I think I will send both a CCA and SAR and see what comes back? at least it might give me a little more breathing space to get my head round all these things and read some more!

 

With regards to asking the DCA for a statement of account, what would I put to them? would it be like the SAR letter?

 

There is so much to consider, the PPI insurance cost is enormous!

 

Basically he had a loan for £3000, paid £120 a month for about a year and now he still owes over a £1000 more than he lent!

 

however, I think I have found the right template to use for the CCA, but the opening paragraph im not sure applies? whereas we are saying that the debt is not acknowledged?

 

subject to access request

 

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

REFERENCE NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

thank you again

 

 

[rory32]

Just change the CCA request slightly to include the statement of account, also ask them for a deed of assignment (this is the contract between the bank and DCA which allows the DCA to process you info) and a fair processing notice (they are required to send you this when they start processing your info).

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

With reference to the above account, I request that you send me a true copy of this credit agreement before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request.

 

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

 

1. True copy of original credit agreement

2. Statement of account

3. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from AA and J & J Collections.

4. A Fair Processing Notice.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment.

I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.

 

Yours faithfully

 

[joanneclaire]

thank you so much for your quick replies and information, it really is appreciated.

 

should we send the CCA to the DCA then?

 

speak of the devil, just had a call from J&J asking to speak to my son, he isnt in, but I asked them to send anything in writing, the lady said she had tried and just hung up!

[rory32]

Yes I would send the CCA to the DCA as you are not just wanting a copy of the executed agreement.

Also send them a letter with regards to harrassment http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html

[Flyguy77]

Definitely ensure they receive the harassment letter. I am dealing with some DCA's on behalf of a friend of mine, he does have mental health problems, and the last thing anyone in that situation needs is further pressure, great that you are looking after your son.

 

Ensure all communication is in writing only, other than that you are doing all the right things as others have advised.

[rory32]

Oh forgot to say make sure everything you send is by recorded delivery. They can then not deny that it was received. The post office website will show the date of delivery and the signature against your reference number on the recorded delivery slip.

[gemspan]

Hi Joanneclaire

 

I think there are 2 issues here. The first is the fact that your son cannot afford to pay the loan and the second is that he has been sold PPI which is very expensive.

 

Is there any way that you could get the PPI to pay his loan for the timebeing if he is sick, been made redundant etc., That is what it is there for and that is what he has paid the money for to date.

 

I am not sure whether it is a good thing to go in with all bells blazing at this early stage in the game to be honest. You can send a CCA letter to them but I would start it off with "I am currently trying to sort out my finances and note that I dont appear to have a copy of my original credit agreement taken out with the AA."

 

The chances are that they will have a copy of the CCA if it is such an early date ie a year old. I wouldnt want to antagonise anybody at this early stage in the game. I would simply request the CCA, sending the £1 postal order or cheque.

 

Regarding the PPI, if your son cannot use this to his advantage at the current time then I would write and ask them to cancel the policy with immediate effect. This should knock off a fair amount of money monthly and therefore any lowered monthly payments will not be that short of the original agreement.

 

Obviously I dont know the full background to your son's case but it would seem sensible to play fair initially and then go for the jugular if they get difficult. You can always state that you do not acknowledge any debt to J&J Collections (as they are not the original creditor!).

 

I would certainly put the bit in the letter about communicating in writing.

 

These are just my thoughts but I would have a look at the PPI policy to see if your son can take advantageous of it at the moment.

 

Also have a look at the PPI forum. You will get lots of advice re PPI on that .

 

Good luck

Gemspan

[gemspan]

You may also have a case of mis-sold PPI which puts the validity of the loan into question but best to take it in stages first.

 

Gemspan

[joanneclaire]

Thank you so much for your replies and help.

 

I have now sent of the harrassement letter and a CCA to the DCA, so we will see what comes of that. Although wish I had seen this before sending it off yesterday, it might have been a good idea to include this? But never mind I guess we will see what happens.

 

I am not sure whether it is a good thing to go in with all bells blazing at this early stage in the game to be honest. You can send a CCA letter to them but I would start it off with "I am currently trying to sort out my finances and note that I dont appear to have a copy of my original credit agreement taken out with the AA."

I am today going to look at sending a SAR to the AA and a harrassement letter to the HSBC for him, I find it really annoying, he is only £55 overdrawn in the HSBC - which has occured because of charges, but the shear volume of calls from the HSBC is unreal! I am talking about 3/4 times a day, from an 'overseas' call centre I think most of them are from!

 

thanks again for your help

[joanneclaire]

the PPI, I need time to sit and read through and try to 'understand' it??

 

Im not sure if he was misold or not? he is a bricklayer and he says that when he set up the AA loan, he was told he would need the cover to protect him, but again I need to get to the bottom of it and how it was 'sold' to him

[joanneclaire]

found this website via martins money saving website

 

Financial Agreement Solutions

 

has anyone heard of it, used it before?? I thought it might be worth checking my sons agreement with them when / if I get it?

 

I am assuming its a good one, if Martin Lewis is prepared to name it within his debt advice??

[gemspan]

Hi there

 

I wouldnt waste my money to be honest. You will get the same advice here for free. Best get the agreements first and then we can have a look at them.

 

Kind regards

Gemspan

[joanneclaire]

Well just to update, and hope someone may understand whats happening??I sent a CCA letter + £1 postal order to J&J collections on the 30th April, to what was stated at their registered office on the bottom of their letters:50 Cote LaneLeedsWest YorksLS28 5EDI have today received my CCA letter back with the £1 postal order with a slip saying it was sent to HBOS in error. I originally thought it must be my error and how stupid I must have been, but on checking things out, my registered post stamp and slip states my letter went to the address above - their registered office in Leeds ??However, I also on the same date sent an harrassment letter to J&J Collections at the same address in Leeds and also today in the mail, they have responded to this letter, basically saying they run in accordance with the office of fair trading guidelines ect ect and I should contact J&J collections so that an arrangement can be made?? However, on this letterhead the address states its from: HBOS PLCPO Box 607Trinity HouseHalifaxHX1 2UJNow Im confused!I also sent a harrassment letter to HSBC on the same date and we are still receiving many calls, upto 3 times a day its so ridiculous, I just hang up now but its so frustrating, what is the next step with these guys!thanks againJoanne

[Guest Mincemeat]

You need to verify the addresses of these companies. Having just seen this thread I think you may well have been sold a bum steer with regards to some of the letters. The loan (whoever kept on mentioning accounts?) is very new and will very probably be in order. The HBOS and HSBC thing is worrying me somewhat. I think you may have crossed letters in the envelopes. Send a s77 CCA request to J&J again, with the PO you've already got back from HSBC and send a further 2 letters both to J&J and HSBC respectively for telephone harrasment. Oh, and I think the harrasment is the wrong letter. You need to send the 'no phone contact everything in writing from now on' letter (see the templates).

 

Be very wary of people who give gung ho advice on here. Keep your wits about you and remember that all advice given, albeit given in the best possible way and intent, is still not professional legal advice and we all make mistakes.

[joanneclaire]

well, I re-sent the CCA request to J&J Collections on the 17th May to an address in Chester which they show on their letters.

 

The thing that confused me a little on this was the original address I sent the CCA to was

J & J Collections Ltd

Dawsons Corner

50 Cote Lane

Leeds

West Yorkshire

LS28 5ED

this is the one that letters from J&J state as been their 'registered' address on the bottom of their letters, which I thought was the best address to use?

anyway, CAA sent off to J&J - no response from them

Now we have received a letter from:

Blair, Oliver & Scott Ltd

who show on their letters 3 Addresses!! two in Fife Scotland (where they state they are registered) and one in Manchester!

This letter now states that their Client is 'Bank of Scotland' who I am assuming is behind the AA Personal Loans?

I guess, as I have had no response from J&J Collections, they have simply passed this onto a further collection agency?

should I simply send Blair, Oliver & Scott a CAA ??

should I send it to all three address they state on their letters?

The thing is which is really annoying, my son actually spoke with the 'AA' a few weeks ago, as they caught him on the phone on the 'hop' Leigh been quite timid, agreed to pay the AA £20 per week to clear the debt, however, he also told them he has no bank account and they would have to send him some payment slips or a payment book, so he could pay this money in each month - which they agreed to do - again we have received nothing from them.

thanks again for all your support

Joanne

[babybear39]

Hi joanneclaire ,

 

Blair Oliver Scott is the legal departmant within HBOS - Halifax Bank of Scotland - incorporating Halifax, Bank of Scotland and issuing AA loans...

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best wishes for a good outcome and kind regards,

 

BB

[joanneclaire]

Hi joanneclaire ,

Blair Oliver Scott is the legal departmant within HBOS - Halifax Bank of Scotland - incorporating Halifax, Bank of Scotland and issuing AA loans...

Hope this helps.

Best wishes for a good outcome and kind regards,

BB

 

 

Hi,

thanks babybear, this makes sense now? (I think)

J&J must be part of this legal department? my original letter to J&J Collections was sent to their 'registered' address documented on the bottom of their letters - this letter came back with a little slip saying - sorry sent to HBOS in error??

 

were they just playing silly then sending it back?

 

or am I still confused on this one?

[ssparry]

Reading about this is like reading about myself, I took a loan with AA about 2.5yrs ago, ha d baby last year, raising her on my own and cannot afford repayments. I inititally wrote to AA offering a full and final settlement, they ignored me, passed me to J&J - wrote to them with same offer 3times, ignored me.....I sent CCA last week, rec'd letter from Blair Oliver Scott (same as yours!) and I have sent CCA to them today. Once (and if) agreement arrives, I will SAR AA as my amount is about £1k more than it should be.

 

I shall watch this thread and also offer you my updates. But I am in exaclty the same boat as your son!

[joanneclaire]

Thanks for your reply ssparry, think I will just mail the CCA to Blair, Oliver, Scott tommorrow as see what happens!

 

it will be interesting to see what happens to both these cases, it seems we both keep getting passed around !

[joanneclaire]

Well, to update and again ask for advice as Im once again totally baffled how they can do this?

 

as mentioned above I sent a CCA firstly to J&J Collections who the AA 'apparantly' instucted as the DCA, their 12 + 30 days are totally over ending on 17th July 07

 

J&J in the meantime passed it onto Blair, Oliver & Scott, again I sent a CCA to Blair, Oliver & Scott, their 12 days was up on the 28th June and the 30 days ends on 9 Aug 07

 

Im assuming Ive calculated these days correct? ive worked them out based on 'working' days, ie 5 days a week??

 

The letters always state that the amount owed is to 'Bank of Scotland'? which I assumed is who the AA used to finance.

 

well today, my son has received a letter from:-

 

IQOR - the new name for Legal and Trade

stating that the debt is owed to 'Capital Bank' and that Capital Bank have issued my sons file to IQOR Recovery Services LTD.

 

They state that they are instructed to recover the full balance and that their actions will continue regardless of whether you actually read this notice or not.

 

If we do not take action to resolve this matter immediatley we may commence legal proceedings ect ect.

 

where do we stand now?

I have no idea now who the debt is owed to:

 

AA?

Bank of Scotland?

Capital Bank?

 

or who is the DCA involved?

 

J&J

Blair, Oliver & Scott?

or now IQOR ?

 

please help??

 

thank you again

Joanne

 

PS, IVE JUST REALISED, THAT ACTUALLY THE 30 DAYS AFTER THE 12 WORKING DAYS IS 'ACTUAL' CALENDAR DAYS AND NOT WORKING DAYS, THEREFORE BOS ARE ACTUALLY NOW ALSO COMMITTING A SUMMARY CRIMINAL OFFENCE?

[ssparry]

Hi, I thought I would also update you with mine, also having received a letter from Buchanan Clark & Wells.

 

Ok on the 7th June 07, BOS signed for my CCA, cashed the cheque. To date I have received no communication in relation to this, just continual demands for money. To my calculations, BOS are well over the time period, but have passed me to Buch Clark Wells. Their letter babbles on and on, but includes I have 72hrs to make arrangments to settle account or they will instruct their agent to attend my premises to establish residency and reason for non payment.

 

Any advice as to what I should do next? I have already sent CCA to AA, J&J Collections, Blair Oliver Scott and heard nothing.

 

Do I need to CCA Buchanan Clark Wells?

 

Sorry to jump your thread, but it looks like myself & your son are in the same boat!

 

Many thanks!

 

Sam

[babybear39]

Both write to the latest bunch reminding them that the previous have committed a summary criminal offence by not furnishing CCA. Also remind them that as alledged account in dispute they CANNOT pass to another DCA. Copy leter to each of the idiots and report to TS ASAP...