Hi yes there is a second page, no signatures on that, just wording relating to terms and conditions, schedule of default costs and data protection notice. not realised the signatures to be honest. does the signing dates make a difference, in relation to them signing before my son? thanks for any input and advice Joanne

thanks here is the copy they sent:- copy of agreement.doc

Hi, I am in need of some guidance as to what to do next for my son? my original thread dates back to April 07 as below:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/86469-dca-legal-action-son-2.html the debt over the last year has been passed around probably every DCA in the country! J&J Collections Blair, Oliver & Scott IQOR Wescot Nelson, Grant & Partners all the above DCA's were supplied with CCA's and none could supply anything I asked for, never have whether it be within the timescale or not. and now lastly Moorcroft. Moorcroft sent my son a letter of 'intended litigation', which I followed with a CCA, usual requests I made of copy of original credit agreement, statement of account, copy of the executed deed of assignment and a fair processing notice. the 12 days passed on the 28th March, when they are then allowed a further 30 calendar days, well on the 17th April we received from Moorcroft what seems to be the copy of the original loan agreement which is signed by my son, so it is after the 12 days, but before the end of the 30 days? they have not supplied any other information we asked for, just a letter stating they are giving us 14 days to respond to arrange payment otherwise they will be taking further action ect ect. I guess I now need to look at what to do next? should I contact Moorcroft asking for the missing documents which they havent supplied? do I need to contact to make an offer? I dont even know if the amount stated due is correct? any help is very much appreciated as my 14 days are running out! thank you Joanne

Hi, well after all this time, I need some more advice, but here are the updates on my sons case: the debt has been seemingly passed around probably every DCA in the country!: J&J Collections Blair, Oliver & Scott IQOR Wescot Nelson, Grant & Partners all the above DCA's were supplied with CCA's and none could supply anything I asked for, never have whether it be within the timescale or not. and now lastly Moorcroft. Moorcroft sent my son a letter of 'intended litigation', which I followed with a CCA, usual requests of copy of original credit agreement, statement of account, copy of the executed deed of assignment, a fair processing notice. the 12 days passed on the 28th March, when they are then allowed a further 30 calendar days, well, yesterday (17th April) we received from Moorcroft what seems to be the copy of the original loan agreement which is signed by my son. they have not supplied any other information we asked for, just a letter stating they are giving us 14 days to respond to arrange payment. I guess I now need to look at what to do next? should I contact Moorcroft asking for the missing documents which they havent supplied? do I need to call to make an offer? I dont even know if the amount stated due is correct? any help is very much appreciated thank you Joanne

Rory, I was just wondering how things are with you regarding BOS? the only reason I am asking, BOS's time ran out for us at the end of July 07 (12+30 days) following CCA request. so they now are commiting a summary criminal offence. we have heard nothing from them, however today we have received a letter now under the name of IQOR - the new name for Legal and Trade, staing that the debt is now with Capital Bank (originally taken out with AA under Bank of Scotland) and they have issued with our 'file' to recover the outstanding balance? I havent a clue what to do from here now? it was originally with J&J Collections who also time ran out for, then passed to BOS who also time has now ran out for, so now its passed to these guys? Have BOS done this to you?

Well, to update and again ask for advice as Im once again totally baffled how they can do this? as mentioned above I sent a CCA firstly to J&J Collections who the AA 'apparantly' instucted as the DCA, their 12 + 30 days are totally over ending on 17th July 07 J&J in the meantime passed it onto Blair, Oliver & Scott, again I sent a CCA to Blair, Oliver & Scott, their 12 days was up on the 28th June and the 30 days ends on 9 Aug 07 Im assuming Ive calculated these days correct? ive worked them out based on 'working' days, ie 5 days a week?? The letters always state that the amount owed is to 'Bank of Scotland'? which I assumed is who the AA used to finance. well today, my son has received a letter from:- IQOR - the new name for Legal and Trade stating that the debt is owed to 'Capital Bank' and that Capital Bank have issued my sons file to IQOR Recovery Services LTD. They state that they are instructed to recover the full balance and that their actions will continue regardless of whether you actually read this notice or not. If we do not take action to resolve this matter immediatley we may commence legal proceedings ect ect. where do we stand now? I have no idea now who the debt is owed to: AA? Bank of Scotland? Capital Bank? or who is the DCA involved? J&J Blair, Oliver & Scott? or now IQOR ? please help?? thank you again Joanne PS, IVE JUST REALISED, THAT ACTUALLY THE 30 DAYS AFTER THE 12 WORKING DAYS IS 'ACTUAL' CALENDAR DAYS AND NOT WORKING DAYS, THEREFORE BOS ARE ACTUALLY NOW ALSO COMMITTING A SUMMARY CRIMINAL OFFENCE?

thanks for clearing that up for me, I was beginning to wonder then I had it all wrong! I have a thread regarding my son and these two DCA's so will post to that information on how things pan out. this has made my son ill with stress and he simply carnt deal with telephone calls the best of times, never mind from these people!

my son currently is having problems with BOS, it seems that both J&J collections and BOS are both 'legal' departments acting for HBOS. I sent on behalf of my son a CCA request to both J&J and then it was passed onto BOS to which I sent them a CCA, but reading this thread im not sure whether this was right? should the CCA have gone to the original creditor who was AA Loans / funded by Bank of Scotland ?? thanks for the info on this thread, Ill also be watching as BOS do have our phone number unfortunatley and are using it! even though we have said 'everything in writing'

Thanks for your reply ssparry, think I will just mail the CCA to Blair, Oliver, Scott tommorrow as see what happens! it will be interesting to see what happens to both these cases, it seems we both keep getting passed around !

Hi, thanks babybear, this makes sense now? (I think) J&J must be part of this legal department? my original letter to J&J Collections was sent to their 'registered' address documented on the bottom of their letters - this letter came back with a little slip saying - sorry sent to HBOS in error?? were they just playing silly then sending it back? or am I still confused on this one?

well, I re-sent the CCA request to J&J Collections on the 17th May to an address in Chester which they show on their letters. The thing that confused me a little on this was the original address I sent the CCA to was J & J Collections Ltd Dawsons Corner 50 Cote Lane Leeds West Yorkshire LS28 5ED this is the one that letters from J&J state as been their 'registered' address on the bottom of their letters, which I thought was the best address to use? anyway, CAA sent off to J&J - no response from them Now we have received a letter from: Blair, Oliver & Scott Ltd who show on their letters 3 Addresses!! two in Fife Scotland (where they state they are registered) and one in Manchester! This letter now states that their Client is 'Bank of Scotland' who I am assuming is behind the AA Personal Loans? I guess, as I have had no response from J&J Collections, they have simply passed this onto a further collection agency? should I simply send Blair, Oliver & Scott a CAA ?? should I send it to all three address they state on their letters? The thing is which is really annoying, my son actually spoke with the 'AA' a few weeks ago, as they caught him on the phone on the 'hop' Leigh been quite timid, agreed to pay the AA £20 per week to clear the debt, however, he also told them he has no bank account and they would have to send him some payment slips or a payment book, so he could pay this money in each month - which they agreed to do - again we have received nothing from them. thanks again for all your support Joanne

Well just to update, and hope someone may understand whats happening??I sent a CCA letter + £1 postal order to J&J collections on the 30th April, to what was stated at their registered office on the bottom of their letters:50 Cote LaneLeedsWest YorksLS28 5EDI have today received my CCA letter back with the £1 postal order with a slip saying it was sent to HBOS in error. I originally thought it must be my error and how stupid I must have been, but on checking things out, my registered post stamp and slip states my letter went to the address above - their registered office in Leeds ??However, I also on the same date sent an harrassment letter to J&J Collections at the same address in Leeds and also today in the mail, they have responded to this letter, basically saying they run in accordance with the office of fair trading guidelines ect ect and I should contact J&J collections so that an arrangement can be made?? However, on this letterhead the address states its from: HBOS PLCPO Box 607Trinity HouseHalifaxHX1 2UJNow Im confused!I also sent a harrassment letter to HSBC on the same date and we are still receiving many calls, upto 3 times a day its so ridiculous, I just hang up now but its so frustrating, what is the next step with these guys!thanks againJoanne

found this website via martins money saving website Financial Agreement Solutions has anyone heard of it, used it before?? I thought it might be worth checking my sons agreement with them when / if I get it? I am assuming its a good one, if Martin Lewis is prepared to name it within his debt advice??

the PPI, I need time to sit and read through and try to 'understand' it?? Im not sure if he was misold or not? he is a bricklayer and he says that when he set up the AA loan, he was told he would need the cover to protect him, but again I need to get to the bottom of it and how it was 'sold' to him

Thank you so much for your replies and help. I have now sent of the harrassement letter and a CCA to the DCA, so we will see what comes of that. Although wish I had seen this before sending it off yesterday, it might have been a good idea to include this? But never mind I guess we will see what happens. I am not sure whether it is a good thing to go in with all bells blazing at this early stage in the game to be honest. You can send a CCA letter to them but I would start it off with "I am currently trying to sort out my finances and note that I dont appear to have a copy of my original credit agreement taken out with the AA." I am today going to look at sending a SAR to the AA and a harrassement letter to the HSBC for him, I find it really annoying, he is only £55 overdrawn in the HSBC - which has occured because of charges, but the shear volume of calls from the HSBC is unreal! I am talking about 3/4 times a day, from an 'overseas' call centre I think most of them are from! thanks again for your help

thank you so much for your quick replies and information, it really is appreciated. should we send the CCA to the DCA then? speak of the devil, just had a call from J&J asking to speak to my son, he isnt in, but I asked them to send anything in writing, the lady said she had tried and just hung up!

thank you so much for your quick replies, I thought that Blair, Oliver ect were solicitors! I think I will send both a CCA and SAR and see what comes back? at least it might give me a little more breathing space to get my head round all these things and read some more! With regards to asking the DCA for a statement of account, what would I put to them? would it be like the SAR letter? There is so much to consider, the PPI insurance cost is enormous! Basically he had a loan for £3000, paid £120 a month for about a year and now he still owes over a £1000 more than he lent! however, I think I have found the right template to use for the CCA, but the opening paragraph im not sure applies? whereas we are saying that the debt is not acknowledged? subject to access request I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter. 1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx. 2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists. 3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974. Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities. As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued. Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested. Dear Sir/Madam REFERENCE NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx thank you again

Hi, I am looking for some advice so I can help my son who at 20yrs has dug a big hole for himself and is struggling to get out. Im so worried about his mental health at present, i hope with a little help I can help him lighten things a little. Basically he obtained a loan for £3000 from the AA over a year ago. I didnt realise at the time as I didnt get involved but he also added on the PPI (which I think has been misold anyway) to cut a long story short he fell into difficulty just prior to christmas 06 where he couldnt meet payments ect. AA have since transferred the account to J & J Collections a debt collection agency. I sent an email (from my son) to the debt collection ageny on 23 April and also followed up with the same letter by recorded delivery basically detailing the circumstances and offering to pay £20 per week off the debt - which is now £4055.78! My son cannot set up DD with the bank, so we requested payment slips / book so we could commence paying the amount should they agree. We received a letter dated 26 April from J&J stating that:- we confirm that due to non payment we have agreed with our clients to refer your account for Legal Action. Your account details are currently been transferred to Blair, Oliver and Scott (solicitors??) who will contact you in due course. Now, I am at a loss really what to do, I have read and read about DCA to try to get an idea where to start? Do I send the DCA a CCA request? or do I send it to the AA who originally set up the loan? should I send a DPA to the AA as I know there have been charges on the account? As we have already sent a letter and email to the DCA asking them to accept our proposed payment plan, this acknowledges the loan therefore can we still send the CCA? Im assuming that shortly we will be receiving a letter with regards to the legal action? any advice is gratefully received, thanks

Hi Zootscoot, yes my court letter states it is small claims track, hearing to last no more than 90 minutes. I didnt send anything with the AQ? wasnt aware that I should have, I followed the directions from this site in the section relating to filing in the AQ. is there something here I am missing or should have done? Joanne

no, not quite, this was for £162

Hi, thanks for your replies, to be honest Im not sure whether it is full hearing or allocation hearing? how would I know? I have the letter from the court with the date on ect, but it doesnt say anything about full hearing ect? to be honest, this is confusing me a little and I havent had time to spend on it as I wished, hubby had heart op and Ive struggled a little to get into the nitty gritty of this. Regarding the disclosure? in my AQ in the space for 'other information' I had a bit regarding 'order standard disclosure' is this what you mean? I havent rescheduled the hearing as we now arnt able to go away, however, if this is to go to court, I need to get a 'pack' together' to send to court and the solicitors which has to be done 14 day before hearing which is also worrying me as I simply dont know what to include or whether I would be able to stand my ground in court, at the minute Im a nervous wreck so im sure they would simply walk all over me?

Hi, I claimed for charges relating to unpaid DD, and also part interest they charged me when I closed the account. (they charged full months interest even though the account was paid off on 16th month) we didnt have any ERC,s

Ok Im confused (dont take much LOL) I have been allocated a court date 16 March 07 in small claims, my claim against SPML was for £400 in total, which included returned DD charges and half a months interest, (they charged me a full month interest when I paid up mortgage on 16th of month). I had no ERC's I have received a letter today offering me £102 in full and final settlement of claim, which reading this threads seem the sensible thing that I accept this offer and pull out?? However, I am concerned over what to do now? should I accept this offer, will I still be liable for costs from court, costs incurred via SPML? when SPML applied to court for an extension of time to submit their defence they applied also that I would be liable for the £65 fee they had to pay for the extension? will I still be liable for this should I accept their offer? not sure what I should do now? any help is as always very much appreciated. Joanne

Cook V SPML 16 March 2007 small claims Charges / Interest not ERC's

I have received a letter today from SGH basically offering me £102 in full and final settlement of my claim againt them. My total claim came to £406 which was for returned DD and part interest claim following the closure of this mortgage (payed full month when mortgage was paid up on 16th of month) I didnt have any ERC's. However, it is the last paragraph in their letter that resorts to their usual tactics. 'We are currently awaiting instructions from our client to make an application to allocate this claim to the fast track as we intend to call expert evidence at the trial. If the matter is allcated to fast track you will become liable for our clients costs in the event that your claim fails. Our clients costs to date are approximately £4000. It is our clients intention to vigorously defend this case notwithstanding the small amount you are claiming and hope that you will give serious consideration to our clients offer" has anyone else had any 'offers' of settlement before getting to court? what chance do they have of changing the matter to fast track once it has been allocated in the small claims??